Hearthpwn

Well Orange was basically saying it is a Tier 1 deck along with Aggro Shaman, Aggro Druid, and Oil Rogue. He even thinks it is stronger than Secret Paladin. Actually he put both Paladin decks in Tier 2.

Crazy right? Post-nerf Patron Warrior is stronger than pre-nerf Secret Paladin? Better believe it. There is a reason why Patron was #1 basically from inception til nerf, and also why pros called for nerfs of Patron but are just annoyed with Paladin.

Now, not everyone is going to agree. But I would say Patron is far from dead.

If you want to play Patron, just do it.

Elise Starseeker is better than that.

Everyone said Reno Jackson was unplayable and only for gimmick decks. Ranking him 2/10 and whatnot. Then he comes out and everyone realizes he might be one of the best cards in the LoE set. Reno Jackson went from unplayable trash, to best card in the set, in a few days of playing him.

Elise Starseeker is the same. Everyone thinks she is bad but she is like Reno, SleeperOP.

The biggest problem I see is that people want to put her in a draw heavy deck, and get to Golden Monkey ASAP. However I don't believe this is the correct way to play her, as that is not much different from a 30 Legendary deck, which we all know is bad. You must use her for her strengths:

• In the end game of a fatigue battle she replaces your now useless cards with better ones.
• Since you will turn multiple cards into Legendary cards, it negates most of the RNG of getting bad ones.
• A 32-card deck is obviously better than 30 in a fatigue battle.
• On average, you will draw the Map to the Golden Monkey with 8 cards left in your deck + your hand, this is well past the point of not having enough mana to cycle it.
• On average, you will draw Golden Monkey with 4 cards left in your deck + your hand, which is also great 'cause you don't want to pull it earlier when you still have useful cards to play.
• The 3/5 body is great. They did right by Elise Starseeker.
• In aggro matchups, you will almost never run into the problem of the Map ruining your draw since the game should be over before you even get to the Map.
• In any other matchup, by the time you pull the Map, you will have 10 mana for an easy cycle.

If you plan on drawing the Golden Monkey early and getting all Legendary cards early, you're gonna have a bad time. Not really how it works.

Average cards left in deck when you draw:

• Elise Starseeker = 16
• Map to the Golden Monkey = 8
• Golden Monkey = 4
• Source: Reddit user simulated 1,000,000 games under "play these cards asap" conditions to see when you draw.

It's a nice idea to release these videos, but what is the point if they are not relevant?

Maybe instead of "Designer Insights:" the series title should be "What We Want You To Believe:"

No one is complaining about Ice Rager, and the problem with Dr. Boom has nothing to do with War Golem. Are there tons of threads where everyone is talking about how they don't understand powercreep? I can't seem to find them. Everyone knows which minions are OP and which need nerfs, and the communities or Brode's views on what powercreep actually is, are rather irrelevant. This video just dances around, talking close to, but not actually touching on any topic that is in any popular community thread / question.

Piloted Shredder and Dr. Boom most certainly need nerfs. I'd also probably add Knife Juggler and maybe Mad Scientist. These are the cards that most everyone recognizes as the most broken cards. It is quite obvious and BB's thoughts on powercreep don't really matter, these cards are still the ones that need to be looked at. And these are the cards he should be talking about in these videos.

I'm not talking huge nerfs, just bring 'em in line. For example, Knife Juggler and Mad Scientist might be fine with simply losing 1 Attack. A 2/2 Knife Juggler no longer has the 5 stats to be a good on-curve play, which is totally reasonable considering how much value he gives if he lives even one turn, and also how much value he gives in combo / late game situations. Knife Juggler is so good that he could probably go down to a 1/2 and still see limited play. Dr. Boom and Piloted Shredder probably need more than just 1 stat nerfd. Not sure where the correct balance is, but these 4 mentioned minions are all so OP, that it is obvious that at the very least they could all lose a stat or two and still see just as much play.

And the points about basic cards, and keeping things simple and all that is getting old. This is not a hard game. Games such as Kerbal Space Program or Eve Online, those are games that I've considered not telling friends about because I know they are just too complicated / in-depth for some people. That thought has never crossed my mind with Hearthstone. It is not hard, it is one of the most basic, simplest games out today. This is not the thing you should be concerned about with the New Player Experience.

The main reasons I would NEVER recommend someone I know to start playing Hearthstone today is not because of how complicated it is, it is because of how far behind they are, and the fact that they will have to spend HUNDREDS of dollars or NEVER be on an even playing field. F2P isn't going to get you very far, speaking as a person 1 year in, I'm still woefully far behind. For someone starting today, it's a joke, pay money, and not just a one time fee, but a repetitive casino style gamble with your money, or never be competitive.

Quote from Kaioxys >>

They just wanted paladin to have all the good decks

 

It is a "Combo" that is less reliable than Force of Nature + Savage Roar. Probably just approach it the same way as playing against Druid. Keep HP topped off.

Anyfin Can Happen is one turn later than FoN+Roar Combo. And even though it is only one card it is still less reliable due to the setup required. If you only include the 7 "best" Murlocs for maximum Charge damage, then you have to draw thru your entire deck and play all 7 before the Anyfin Can Happen Charge Combo will work. If you include more than just the 7 best Charge Combo Murlocs, well, then Anyfin Can Happen isn't an OTK finisher, just a board fill that can easily be killed with any AOE.

EDIT: And for the Rogue specific answer that OP is asking for, I'm not much of a Rogue player, but maybe Dark Iron Skulker be decent? Especially since you said your playing controlling Rogue and it seems like the 2 damage to everything would be great against the low health Murloc crew.

Quote from ImYourChrist >>

People defending this cancer card are clearly the ones abusing it nonstop on ladder. Near 0 skill to play this deck, I rather face with facehunter than cancerpala, any day. Shit unbalanced card, should be nerfed.

Lifecoach's Conundrum

1. Knife Juggler should be nerfed
2. Thinking of future board state would have led Lifecoach to the correct play, even though at first glance it was not the "best" play
3. Secret Paladin sums up the whole past year of Hearthstone: brain-dead decks
4. It's not just Secret Paladin, almost all playable decks since the release of GvG have become brain-dead, non-thinking decks
5. Cards like Piloted Shredder and Dr. Boom are a big part of the problem, pushed the brain-dead style to takeover all of Hearthstone
6. Most of the ladder is still playing the brain-dead decks, and thinking they can win with them
7. You can not beat brain-dead decks such as Secret Paladin, with other brain-dead decks
8. Time for the general population to start learning Control, maybe a bit of Reno
9. Control is hard to learn, and Reno is even harder, but we will never get there if we don't try
10. Dr. Boom and Piloted Shredder give too much incentive to play brain-dead
11. This also discourages people from learning/playing Control, and this in turn leads to a stagnant meta....
12. ....And people thinking Secret Paladin is much more OP than it is, cause they play decks that are bad against it yet expect to win
13. Correct solution: Nerf Piloted Shredder, Dr. Boom, and Knife Juggler
14. If these 3 neutral nerfs happened, meta would be turned upside down, Secret Paladin would completely fall off, more people would play control, more unique decks and diverse cards would be played, brain-dead play is reduced, game is much more fun.

TL:DR It's just a good practice for all video games, atleast once or twice an hour go outside, get some fresh air, and think over your plays for a few minutes. You WILL become better. THINKING is WINNING.

Quote from Arcanus94 >>

My problem is moreso with Divine Favor rather than MC, Paladins are the only aggro class that don't get punished for emptying their hand and flooding the board because of DF.

Quote from Garlicnerd >>

Dr. Boom is the best 7 mana card in the game but if you look at all the 7-mana cards most pf them are actually really bad so that's not really saying much

Quote from StCecil>>

I find it to be situational.

If you draw that and Tirion to your opening hand, you will wish you just played a Tusker or a Healbot.

Quote from bayo92 >>

Fast/Aggro Secret Paladin: Divine Favor

Tempo Mid/Tokens/Secret Mid Paladin: Solemn Vigil

Slow Mid/Control Paladin; Lay on Hands

But Solemn Vigil is completely underrated, so people play in some decks, instead it when it's the best option, or Divine Favor (and you find this card totally inconsistent) or Lay on Hands (and you find this card terrible slow).

So Lay on Hands is a great card, but you probably play a little faster deck and Solemn Vigil would be better in this case.

Quote from eliasfajardo >>

obviously, vs certain decks it will suck (vs aggro, for example), but vs mid or control is awesome: 8 life + 3 cards??? nice.

If you have a developed board, its good to be on good life, and with cards in hand.

Quote from cycledance >>

 

delicious turkeys! support cruel mass murdering! yay! go america!

So the winner from Winter Season Tournament advances to November World Championship even if they do terrible over the next 8 months?

Seams odd, needs restitching.

All in all, I'm kinda glad they didn't print good neutral inspire minions.

But discover on the otherhand, is a mechanic that was both designed and balanced for competitive-play from the get-go, which is why I really love it as a mechanic.

So you are glad they didn't print good Inspire minions, but you like Discover because they printed good minions?

Blizz screwed up and didn't make Inspire or Joust strong enough, but of course they meant to do that right? Sounds like a fan boy.

....but you are correct when you say the mechanic translates pretty directly to very snowball-y games when it works.

Yeah that Recruiter is so snowbally. Better to make him useless so that insane 3/3 for 3 value can't snowball out of control. And that Silver Hand Regent, getting 2/2 stats for 2 mana every turn, OH MY, WHAT EVER SHALL WE DO? 3/3 for 3, 2/2 for 2, SO DAM OP, NEED NERF NAO. What a joke.

They aren't hard to balance, they just did a shit job of it. Most are too weak. Even the "king" of Inspire, Murloc Knight is usually only run as a one of, cause even the BEST Inspire minions isn't good enough to run both.

In a world of Shredders, Murloc Knight isn't even that strong. 3/4 is a much worse body than 4/3 with DR stick. The best outcome is 5/4 worth from one Inspire on it, not much different from Shredder who can pull a 4/4 and doesn't need to Inspire to make it happen, it just drops the extra minion with no set up at all.

The fact that Murloc Knight has a slight benefit over Piloted Shredder if it lasts 2 turns and you spend 4 additional mana, is to be expected. That's not really that snowbally, just an appropriate effect considering it has poor stats and so many requirements to get to that point of power.

Inspire isn't hard to balance, Blizz just did a shit job on it. Just like they did a terrible job with BRM Dragons even though it was central theme to BRM. Stop make excuses for Blizzs terrible work.

Quote from Chiradori >>

Is this real life, or is this just fantasy ? 

Question for all the people that really think Secret Paladin is OP:

Would Secret Paladin still be OP if Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Piloted Shredder, and Dr. Boom we nerfed?

Like the post above me a previous post, listing the strong core cards, half of them are neutral, and I'd argue the most OP ones are all neutrals. The turn 6 against a Secret Paladin isn't even hard, it is the Dr. Boom that comes afterwards that really seals it. Seriously though, the secrets are all easily knowable, and easy to play around / pop them. I've never seen a Mysterious Challenger come down and been like "OH shit I'm done," I'm thinking, "I got the Owl, I got a weapon, BGH, and some sort of debuff/removal in hand, Mysterious Challenger is nothing to worry about." But when you are forced to blow resources and then Boom comes, well that actually does kill the game.

Tirion Fordring can be silenced, he isn't even really a problem compared to Dr. Boom, and Tirion is one body, much easier to gain back some board control against a Tirion than it is to get board against a Boom. Boom is a late game card, but he does strongly push the aggro gameplan simply by how harmful he is to the opponents board, and in that way it kills slow control decks, and forces the game to be more aggro/tempo.

Secret Paladin is already falling, no longer holds the #1 spot, and many control decks counter it. Not many pros play it, because it is good for Rank 25-5 but less effective once you get to Legend ranks, there is a reason not many played it at Worlds. It is still annoying as fuck to play against, but that is mostly because of the neutral cards. Nerf the correct 4 neutrals, and Secret Paladin might not even be competitive anymore.

The draw is the main reason people use Lay on Hands. Healing is also important but if there were better draw cards in Paladin, Lay on Hands would probably see a lot less plsy.

I mean where else are you going to get card draw? Divine Favor only works in very fast decks and every other Paladin draw card is pretty bad. Not a big fan of running neutral minions for draw in a Paladin deck. Doesn't leave one with many options.

It can be hard to play sometimes, being 8 mana and all, but not many other options. And the healing really is helpful, if a bit slow. Control Paladin, with or without Reno still needs additional healing, so along with providing the draw it also fills up one of the healing spots.

Control Paladin needs 3-4 large heals in the deck. Just check some of the pros for the proof. Lifecoach going with Reno Jackson, Antique Healbot, and Tuskarr Jouster. Trump going with Reno Jackson, Lay on Hands, and Tuskarr Jouster. And in non-Reno decks, probably one more heal would be needed.