Hearthpwn

Missed out on Tyranda with the exclusion of twitch to the netherlands, and now on the golden packs. It pains me to say that this feels like discrimination.... 

Congrats with your BIRTHDAY !!

100% ??  From what planet are you ??

Finaly got the dust to make this deck and i must say.... WHOOP there it is comes to mind  :-)

you get prince out, get it back and whoop there it is again FUNNN

I Like it !!

Quote from emeria >>

Bugged on me against Marrowar, I got windfury, but was only able to attack once.

Great deck, i play it a lot. More fun is it when somebody plays a Living Mana and hopes he got you by the balls, and you cast a Devolve... You win this one !! 

One Kabal Songstealer out and Lyra the Sunshard in ?

I like to make my comment simple... WAUW, it works for me !! 

Quote from joey_jojo_48 >>

TL;DR is that Jade Golem is under costed at ~1-1.5 mana on many of the cards when it should be ~2 mana. So I think that Aya Blackpaw, Jade Behemoth, Jade Idol, Jade Swarmer, Jade Lightning, and Jade Claws should be slightly changed to reflect that.

Introduction

So for the past few months there’s been a lot of complaining about Jade Golem (shocking, I know). So I wanted to take a moment and see if I can break down why they are a problem. Now this is gonna be a long post, so brace yourself. If you only want to see the proposed changes, skip to the end.

What is a Jade Golem worth (in theory)?

Jade Golem as a mechanic is fairly straightforward. The first time you summon one, it is a 1/1, but every time afterwards it increases by +1/+1. So if you summoned 5 of them, you’d get a 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5. If you’ve played Hearthstone at any point since MSG this should be obvious. So this lead me to ask the question: What is the value of a Jade Golem?

Well, a fairly basic formula for how much a pile of stats is worth is Mana = (Attack+Health-1)/2.* So to take an example, Chillwind Yeti is a 4/5 minion. Using the formula, Mana = (4+5-1)/2 = 4. And what do you know? It costs 4 mana in game! So if we apply this formula to Jade Golem:

1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6,…x/x

= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5,…x - 0.5

So, pretty straightforward right? So over the course of a game, how many Jade Golem can you reasonably assume to summon? Well, most Jade Decks (except Rogue) have access to 10 Jade Golem per game assuming they play every card that summons a Jade Golem and do not do any additional synergy (i.e. Jade Spiritx2 + Aya Blackpaw for everyone (which is 4), Jade Claws/Jade Lightning/Jade Chieftainx2 for Shaman (which is 6), Jade Blossom/Jade Behemoth/Jade Idolx2 for Druid (which is 6), Jade Shuriken/Jade Swarmerx4 for Rogue (which is 4)). Though it is certainly possible to summon more than that, and there are many games were you don’t get that high, I think as an estimate for value that feels reasonable. So using the formula again:

1/1 + 2/2 + 3/3…+ 10/10

= 0.5 + 1.5 + 2.5…+ 9.5

= 50

Seeing that this is split over 10 minions, that means the average value of a Jade Golem is 5 mana each. NOW DON’T GET UP IN ARMS YET, I REALIZE THAT NUMBER IS WAYYY TOO HIGH! But just keep this number in mind as we look at how much they are actually valued at in-game.

What is a Jade Golem worth (in practice)?

In game, there are 10 cards that can summon a Jade Golem. Every one of those cards (sorta) has additional effects so that we can roughly find the value of those cards IF THEY DID NOT SUMMON A Jade Golem. Then, by taking the difference, we can see how much a Jade Golem is currently worth:

Jade Spirit: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 2/3. Using the formula that is worth about 2 mana. Given that the card is worth 4 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.

Aya Blackpaw: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/3. Using the formula that is worth about 3.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, and that it summons 2 Jade Golem, each Jade Golem is worth 1.25 mana.

Jade Idol: This one is easy, it is 1 mana for 1 Jade Golem. NEXT!

Jade Behemoth: Without the Jade Golem, this card is a 3/6 Taunt. Using the formula, that is worth 4 mana without the Taunt. Taunt is typically budgeted at 0.5 mana, so it is worth 4.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 1.5 mana.

Jade Blossom: Given that Wild Growth is worth 2 mana, the Jade Golem should be worth about 1 mana. However, given that ramping mana is less valuable the closer you get to 10 mana, I’d argue the “Gain an empty Mana Crystal” is worth only about 1.75 mana, making the Jade Golem worth 1.25 mana.

Jade Shuriken: Baseline this card deals 2 damage, which is worth 1 mana. Therefore Combo: Summon a Jade Golem is worth 1 mana. Since Combo effects in game tend to be costed at the average of getting the effect and not getting the effect, I’d argue the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.

Jade Swarmer: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 1/1 Stealth. 1/1 is worth 0.5 mana according to the formula without the Stealth. Stealth tends to be worth 0.5 mana, so it is worth 1.5 mana without the Jade Golem, meaning the Jade Golem is worth 0.5 mana.

Jade Lightning: A formula for determining how much direct damage is worth is Mana = Damage – 1. Using this, 4 damage is worth 3 mana. This means summoning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.

Jade Chieftain: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/5 with Taunt (sorta). Using the formula (and the assumption that Taunt is worth 0.5 mana), this is worth 5 mana. This means the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.

Jade Claws: Weapons are very hard to figure out their mana cost, but the way I budget it is that weapons should be able to deal an average of 3 damage per mana. This means a 2/2 weapon (4 damage) is worth about 1.33 mana. Given that the card is worth 2 and has an overload of 1 (making it really worth 3 mana), this means the Jade Golem is worth 0.67 mana.

That was a lot of math that was likely wrong. But anyways, we can see that in game the value of a Jade Golem fluctuates a lot, but it tends to be between 1-1.5 mana. Given that the theoretical value is 5 mana, you can see why they are such an oppressive force on the meta.

So what’s the solution?

Well, I’m not so crazy that I think Jade Golem should be increased across the board on all cards to 5. That would be a nerf akin to Warsong Commander. But I do think there’s a problem here, and the most reasonable why I can see to fix it is to increase the value of a Jade Golem on all cards to 2 mana. Since the cards that exist right now that currently summon a 2 mana Jade Golem don’t feel very overpowered, this seems a reasonable way of adjusting the cards. This wouldn’t mean changing every card, and while it would weaken Jade Golem I think it would be a reasonable way to put Jade Golem in check. And if in theory these changes didn't go far enough, the value of a Jade Golem could be increased to 2.5, 3, etc. until the magic number for balance is found. But for now...

Here is what I propose:

• Jade Spirit, Jade Shuriken and Jade Chieftain all remain the same.
• Though it is too powerful, there really isn’t a way to change Jade Blossom without completely ruining the card. So while I do want it changed, I’d leave it the same.
• Jade Idol increases to 2 mana.
• Jade Behemoth becomes a 3/5.
• Jade Swarmer loses Stealth.
• Jade Lightning either increases to 5 mana or reduces to 3 damage.
• Jade Claws becomes a 1/3 weapon.
• Aya Blackpaw becomes a 3/3. While technically 2/3 or 3/2 is correct according to the formula, she is a legendary so whatever.

Thanks for reading. I know I posted a massive wall of text, so if you stuck it through I thank you. Now go ahead and tear this apart with your comments…or, you know, just post TL;DR. ;)

 Cheers! Now on to ranting about Pirates... ;P

 

 

*I fully recognize that this is a simple formula, and won’t work in all cases. But it does give a general idea of how much a card is worth. I know there are a lot of minions in the game that don’t fit this formula, but I think that speaks to a systemic problem with the power curve of the game which I’ll save for another rant.

 

OMG i destroy the hunter. thank you for this deck.

holy sh#t, this deck is annoying i cant believe how annoying this deck is. its like this guy has every answer ">

guess ill try it i love playing decks that annoy me.

Many people wanted a better understanding on how to play this deck, so I added a video guide! It is the first time I try doing stuff like that, but I did my best, I hope you enjoy it!

One of the best decks I've seen in terms of fun. It would rate very closely with the gang up rogue. Even if you fail to win, you enjoy yourself a lot.

This is quite outdated:)

I swapped out x2 Ogre Brute for x2 Ancient Watcher and it works great.

I just reached Legend w/ this deck, here are the stats:

138 Games played: 94 Won / 44 Lost => 68% win rate

Shaman 6/2 75%

Paladin 8/6 57%

Warrior 13/3 81%

Warlock 9/5 64%

Rogue 4/3 57%

Mage 16/5 76%

Priest 7/0 100%

Druid 11/7 61%

After reaching Rank 5 I replaced Abusive Sergeant by Ragnaros (aka Orange's Midrange Hunter). Hope these stats help.

*Insert getting Rank 24 pun here*

1. Yes

2. No

3. Buy nax

if you can't get past 50% winrate with this deck i will guarantee you it's pilot error