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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion

    Elderspring and Jadebark are both solid.  I think Springbloom's Bloom effect might be a little overpowered now, since it gets you a Sleepy Dragon for (6) if you have the right hand size.  If you're operating under a "if you hit the Bloom you get a (1) cost effect bump" then maybe change it to gaining +4 Health, which would make it a 4/10 Taunt for (6) and put it in line with Hungry Ettin.

    As to the legendary minion, first, gonna say that we've definitely been drinking from the same inspiration pool since this was going to be my Legendary Boomsday scientist:

     While I obviously think the start of game effects are great design, I also think it's something you'd need to seed and support more throughout the class cards.  As is, of the minions and weapons in your class only Amethyst Staff cares about how much Spell Damage you have (as opposed to the various cards that care if you have a Spell Damage minion, which your hero having it wouldn't help), and only Sharpetal Dagger, Living Rose, and Regal Rosebeast add spells to your hand (and the first two are more Razorpetals). I understand the Baku connection would push this to a very "ALL the Razorpetals" style of deck, but contrast with the various minion generating spells that Hunter and Mage get in return for running no minions.

    Of the other options, I like the Shudderwock-alike (although you'd want to make sure that Riverbound Cleaver is changed to just "give this" instead of "give this weapon" so it makes sense for Gnarlroot) since as you mention it can fit into any style of Bloom deck.  #1 does have the benefit of being sneakily and flavorfully splashy, which is always a good aspect of class legendaries.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 1

    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Discussion
    Quote from Anatomy_of_Time >>

     

    The reason I have a ton of relevant art for the cards I'm making is because I've looked for it before actually making the Nymph. I absolutely did not want to find myself in the situation where I had to give up on a card idea because I didn't have the card art for it. So, before starting, I looked up a bunch of stuff on ArtStation and MTG Art based on the ideas I had for some classes and in the end made the one I had the most art for.

     

     Haha I think this is about the exact opposite of my process! I'll spend a bunch of time getting my card text right, then spend about 3x that amount trying to cram the square peg of mechanics into the round hole of whatever art I can cobble together. Google images 'similar images' feature gets a workout from me.

    Quote from Klipce >>

    Okay so I made a few changes based on feedback. Twisted Bargain felt wierd from the get go nd I managed to find a better idea so here goes :

    >>>

    >>>

    Previous versions :    

       

     Raven's Eye I pushed is a more token direction, making it similar to Duskbat.

    Primordial Wind went through so many iterations... I'm not sure which version is the most flavorful and interesting. I like the last one but I'm not sure.

    Foretelling I like both versions and I don't know which one is best. The first really encourages to meet the requirement but can be kinda dead, which led me to the second version but then I fear it's a bit too strong without meeting the requirement.

    Identity Crisis is my way to tackle this week's challenge. It's removal with the damage and the change of tribe that can be exploited with something like Hungry Crab but also a way to give one of your minions all tribes and power-up Channel effects. The name is a bit on-the-nose so I might change it to "Amalgam Bolt" or something.

     Agree with the others, you nailed Identity Crisis in one.

    Foretelling should be draw 3 with the potential for an extra card. As mentioned previously, "Draw 3" is worth about 4.5 mana, "Draw 4" is worth about 6. Foretelling drawing 3 on its own means its not ideal, but still playable if you topdeck it. Then if you work to get the conditions right you get a bonus upside. If the baseline is draw 1 then it becomes essentially a dead card unless you can assemble the right board, which is more frustrating.

    Primordial Wind might have been one tweak too far.  I get you're trying to push Channel farther, but by tying this to having a board full of the same tribe it either becomes a dead card or a heavy win-more card. The 6-Cost "Deal 1 damage thrice" version is balanced and simple.  If you want to stick with the Channel version, I'd suggest a slight wording tweak.  When a spell 'gives' a minion something it means it becomes part of the minion's text, so saying you're giving a minion "deal 1 damage to all enemies" feels weird since there's no trigger. 

    I'd suggest "Channel: Give a minion Windfury, then deal 1 damage to all enemies."  That separates it out into giving the minion (and all others with the same tribe) Windfury, and then separately dealing 1 damage to all enemies (once for that minion, then repeating again for all others with the same tribe).

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Submission

                                             

    JOURNEYMAN SET - PART II SHOWCASE

    JOURNEYMAN SET - PART II

     Engineer Basic Set

    Mech Mook tokens

     Journeyman Set - Part I

    Wish Spell

     Thanks again to everyone, and good luck to all other participants.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Discussion

    Ok, I already laid out my 20 card Journeyman set in the last discussion thread, here's where I'll try to nail down my showcase and then my challenge card.

    Showcase wise I'm thinking these three:

    Fun With Portals has been changed from its earlier "Draw 1 card (improved by Spell Damage)" version to be much more tied to needing a Spell Damage source to be viable.  Sparklash I just like the design, and Octavian is the remaining legendary.

    The remaining set of options:

    Of these potential showcases, my leading alternates are Nether Grenade, Target Lock, and Omega Surge.  Nether Grenade is the weakest alternate because Sparklash gets at the same (to my mind) neat 'Deal 0 Damage' angle while also supplying the Spell Damage underpinning.  Target Lock I like, but I recognize the way I've costed it (1 with a 5 mana surcharge instead of 6 with a 5 mana discount) is janky, although I think my version works within the code of the game.  Omega Surge is just a lot of nice big easy numbers, which might be enough for a showcase now that I think about it.

    For my challenge, I'm pre-retiring the original Dual Sheller, which was just Arcanite Reaper with Surge. Tinkertown Thug already satisfies the 'vanilla with Surge' aspect of the set, and I don't have anything already made that fits the challenge.

    Here's the kind of stuff I'm thinking so far, welcome any feedback:

    Since it's replacing a Common card I'm trying to make the tie-in effect simple.  Since Surge is about spreading the damage around to enemies, the easiest to grasp tie-in would be something that pings off multiple enemies being damaged (i.e. you hit one minion with Surge and the excess splashed onto another enemy minion).

    Tinker Trainee and Dual Sheller A are both intended to be triggered after one Surge hit.  Adding Vent spells to the hand seems on the simpler end of things while still being useful.  Tinker Rocker is intended to be the class's version of the 1/3 with Attack pumping; I made it until end of turn because it'd definitely get out of hand faster than Mana Wyrm if  it kept the pump. Dual Sheller B is a similar concept Attack increase.

    @Klipce

    I generally agree with Anatomy_of_Time's thoughts, although if Inquisitive Youngling just gives a 1/1 copy of the card in your hand, rather than summoning a 1/1 copy on the board, you're fine. Agree with McF4rtson that the simplest keyword synergy for your challenge card will be something like a Nightmare Amalgam or something that Amalgam-izes a minion so that all Channel and tribe effects apply.

    @Anatomy_of_Time

    Generally looks good, you really explored the (improved by Spell Damage) space well.  Specific thoughts:

    Jadebark Dragon: The "Your next spell costs (0)" mechanic is so variably costed, but I think a specific hand size is about right.

    Thalia: This is tricky, because the cost is right assuming ideal conditions (plenty of spells played throughout the game with the right hand size) but it's hard to know at a glance how easy those idealconditions are.  Although the spells aspect is presumably easiest to take care of with just Razorpetals, this is a lot like the other legendary where it also requires you to potentially hoard petals while waiting for the right time to strike. Since the drawing ability for the class isn't the best petals will probably end up being the main way to work around Bloom.  Outside of the ideal scenario it's way overcosted, so once you draw it you end up working to make sure its not a dead card. I'd suggest a tweak so that it has a minor effect on its own with a more powerful Bloom effect if you can get everything to line up, but that could get wordy.

    Riverbound Cleaver: So my first thought is that this is Fatecleaver outside of its unique Arena-exclusive setting, and I don't think one more mana is enough to justify two copies being added to a deck.  This essentially gives the potential for four Flik Skyshivs each game! Maybe if you limit it to all other copies currently in play? 

    @Artimex723

    It sounds like you'll be reworking some of the other cards, but with regards to Tenris, what about the other Classic class legendaries would you consider weak?  In general, your Classic legendary should be something thematic with your class that either functions as a win condition on its own (or can support the win condition for the deck), or at least needs to be dealt with immediately.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 3

    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Voting

    Hmm, why eliminate anyone for this round? That is, why not just let the current 11 roll through and then add up the cumulative scores for the Initiate set to determine the final 4?

    I get that initially the "Eliminate five each round until you get to four finalists" was clean and symmetrical, but with the phase two non-participants self reducing the number of contestants anyway, at this point I don't think the difference between 10 and 11 contestants in the third phase is too much cognitive load to handle.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 2

    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Submission

     

    Upgraded Hero Power and Basic Set Link

     

     

    Introduction of the Journeyman Set

     The Engineer debuts during THE BOOMSDAY PROJECT expansion, a science based new hero for a science heavy new set. After receiving their Basic Set players will get introduced to the remaining Journeyman Cards, representing the second level of engineering prowess.

     The Engineer arrives on the scene with its very own class keyword, Surge:

     

     Surge represents the Engineer harnessing the normally wasted energy from overpowering foes and putting it to good use.

     JOURNEYMAN SET SHOWCASE CARDS

     

    Brainstorm shows how Surge can be used to introduce fun decisions with normal damage dealing.  Will you use it to draw a card and knock out a pesky Chillwind Yeti, or perhaps use it on a weaker minion to rack up more card draw?

    Get Rowdy! is rooted in typical Engineer mind control shenanigans.  Think of this like an inverse-Brawl, where you can use an enemy's strongest minion against his own side....as long as you're prepared to take a few hits yourself.

    Mechano-Lord Capacitus is meant to be a fun build around card.  The spell in question is Wish, a returning Dungeon Run Treasure from the Kobolds and Catacombs era. That was always my favorite Treasure to watch go off during a run, and now you can experience the huge swing in an actual game! Sure it takes is harnessing the energy from twenty spells and 19 Mana, but think of the payoff!

     

    JOURNEYMAN SET PART 1

     

     

    Thanks for checking out The Engineer, and good luck to the other competitors!

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Discussion
    Quote from Artimex723 >>

    I have a small question before I start making the cards, just to avoid isuues like the last time. Can I include secrets and Stealth cards in my initiate set?

     Yes, the 'Initiate' is like the Classic set so everything (barring set specific keywords) is on the table.  And based on DH's Initiate set Discover and Rush are core (as opposed to set specific) mechanics, so even though its not present in the original 9 classes Classic cards we can include it here.

    Quote from Klipce >>

    Okay let's beggin ! I'm planning on tying my class to Journey to Un'goro (which is still absent form the list of expansions in the FAQ...) an since MSoG won't be a part of the competition, I decided to give it some love with a hand buff card. I'm also introducing a new keyword ! I made 10 cards with that keyword, trying to explore it as much as possible. I might split them across the 2 parts of what I decided to call the Pioneer Set or group them all in the same submission.

    The Primalist:

    So my new keyword : Channel ! I designed it to explore tribal synergies and emulate the flavor of family in my class.

    So it might not be exactly clear what I mean. Let me elaborate. Cards with Channel have a targetted effect when you play them. If you target a minion with a tribe (Beast, Murloc, Elemental, etc), then the effect will target all minions with the same tribe. The targets must be in the same zone of the game so if the first target is a minion on the board, it will only target other minions on the board and if the first target is a card in your deck it will only target other cards in you deck. Spells and weapons don't have tribes and so do many minions so they would be the only target. Heroes mostly don't have a tribe either but Lord Jaraxxus is an interesting precedent... Let me show you the cards :

                                             

    As you can see, I couldn't decide between using it alone or with a colon. The thing is, I don't want minion's attacks to be affected by the keyword which the colon helps disambiguate but I find it a bit more elegant without it... What do you like best ?

    I tried to explore as many effects as I could think of and I quite like how it turned out. I'm a bit worried that the class might not have a clear identity but tribal synergies are such core to the whole that it might be alright.

     

     Hmm, this is tricky.  On the one hand, I intuitively get the intention of the keyword, but in practice the actual mechanics can be headscratching, as your uncertainty about whether to include the colon indicates.  The only thing I'm really sure of is that I think you should take 'target' out of the tooltip description, because if you're including random effects ("give a random minion in hand +1/+1", "attack a random enemy") then those by definition aren't targeted.

    Might need to ask others more rules literate than me if this hotfix makes sense, but I would suggest making it a more reactive/follow through keyword.  So for Dining Dino, instead of "Channel: Deal 2 damage" (which makes it unclear if the normal attacks also hit all minions of the same tribe) it would be "Battlecry: Deal 2 damage, then Channel," with Channel being described as something like "If this affected a minion with a tribe, it also affects all other minions of that tribe."

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 2

    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Discussion

    Good luck to everyone this round! Interesting challenge, although I have to be honest that I needed to double check the Initiate set to see which minion had the Spellstone mechanic (poor overshadowed Nethrandamus).

    The Engineer's introductory set will be The Journeyman Set as it's the second level of Engineering recipes in WoW (was initially going to call this The Apprentice set but....yeah).

     The class's unique keyword is Surge:

    Surge represents the Engineer harnessing the normally wasted energy from overpowering foes and putting it to good use. Hopefully that's clear/immediately grokkable; If you see or think of any unclear interactions let me know. Original thought was to have it randomly split among all enemies (including the enemy hero), but that ended up limiting my design space since excessive excess could be immediately game ending.

    I'm envisioning this having come out during The Boomsday Project (really my only science-y options were TBT or Goblins v. Gnomes haha)

    The Journeyman cards I have so far:

    Goblin Tinkerer was my homage to the tri-class Discover cards of MSoG, I've always had a soft spot for ways to shake up the Discover presentation.

    I have creator commentary/discussion to go along with these but I kind of want to get immediate reactions first without tipping the feedback.

    Submission wise, I think I'll split them up into Surge and Spell Damage buckets, with the first week being the more Surge and "attack random enemy" focused cards (ending with Octavian Gearlegs) and the second week being Bilgewhizzle's time to shine.  Figure Surge should go first since it's the newest/flashiest.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 8

    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase One, Submission

    Class Details:

    With the rise of technology in the world of Azeroth, tinkers are becoming common among almost all factions and races. A rarer breed, however, are the geniuses among the tinkers who focus their intelligence on a particular type of technology and can lead impossibly ambitious projects that turn fantasy into reality. Some engineer's fantasize about great works of infrastructure or useful devices. Spanner Brassgrip had the kind of explosively charged fantasies that got him kicked out of Gnomeregan for, in his words, "being too fun." He took the exile in stride as now he and his like minded goblin and gnomish engineers have more time to indulge in their greatest works.

    Unique Keywords: Surge

    Core Keywords: Spell Damage, Immune while attacking

    SHOWCASE CARDS

    REMAINING BASIC SET

    Mech Mook tokens:

     

     

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 1

    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase One, Discussion
    Quote from parzival2345 >>

     My thoughts: the hero power is way busted. It should probably be 2 mana add an Arcane Missiles. If you could work it in thematically to use the actual Arcane Missiles card that would be ideal, but not necessary. This isn't necessarily the only change you could make, but 1 mana hero powers are extremely scary.

    Ray projector is fine, although admittedly very scary with Upgrade! style cards. Don't print any of those. 

    Not that Rapid Volley is inherently over powered (its definitely extremely strong), but I don't think giving a class Fireball with potential upside is a good idea for the basic set. Mage having it is enough. 

    Arcane Carbine needs a wording change, as of now it reads that it gives itself spell damage, not you. So you don't get spell damage after if breaks on the second hit. 

    Wrecking Boom and Raging Apparat are both probably overcosted by 1. Archive Raid might be as well, but it goes from slightly weak at 5 to very strong at 4. 

    Recoil Blast is awesome. 

    Keep it up, you're doing great :)

     Thanks for the feedback/encouragement!  So I'm clear, do you feel that 1-mana HP in themselves are an issue?  I understand the problems with Demon Hunter, but that also had an immediate effect on the board starting from turn 1.  Here you still need two mana to affect the board, on the first turn (barring the Coin) you'd only be able to begin hoarding Vents.  I might be missing something though.

    My tweak to Rapid Volley and Wrecking Boom are below.  With regards to Arcane Carbine I was using Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury as inspiration. Admittedly I've never actually used it in a game, does it only provide two instances of Spell Damage on three attacks?  If so I'll try to reword.

    I agree Archive Raid is about a 4.5 cost effect.  Lack of good draw is part of my conception for the class, ala Hunter, so I'm fine with erring on the weaker side.

    Quote from MvonTzeskagrad >>

    @Sideitem

    Besides what has already been told about the scary synergy between Rapid Volley and your set, and Ray Projector and anything that boosts weapons, I think some cards need better wording or be simplified.

    Wrecking Boom should probably say "destroy a minion, then deal as much damage randomly split among enemies as its Health", an Making Friends is open to crazy teamups to the point I cant even say if its balanced or not.

    You should try to print as few token cards as possible in the basic... or at least make them straightforward, like Animal Companion.

     Understood about weapon buffs, currently there's none in my outline so the weapons themselves are more quirky.

    Wrecking Boom is an issue card, yes.  Your wording is definitely cleaner, but I'm trying to steer away from flat out 'destroy' effects so that the class has to rely on damage (i.e. Divine Shield will be its constant annoyance). This was also me trying to sneak in a Basic version of the class keyword (still working on the name, but essentially "Excess damage dealt by this card is split randomly among all enemy minions"), but I might have been too clever by half there.

    With regards to tokens, currently there's one more token than Animal Companion.  Do you think the tokens themselves are too complicated?  I tried to base them on card text already available in the Basic set, but if I missed the mark I can vanilla them up more.

    Incorporating the feedback, here's my current revisions:

    Raging Apparat I agree I overcosted.  Rapid Volley was again me trying to be too clever and thinking it was just a Fireball clone, even though my other intention was to allow it to help deal with deathrattles/reborn stuff.  Now it feels a little more balanced: Without Spell Damage it deals 5 damage (so worse than Fireball, although potentially helpful with the second hit), with Spell Damage +1 it deals 7 (in line with Fireball), and you need to get to Spell Damage +2 for it to pull ahead.

    The problem child of my Basic set.  I think the 5 damage one is what I'm leaning towards, since it's essentially a clean way to say "This class Assassinates differently."  The other version retains some of what I was going for originally, but might be overpowered?

     And reviews of stuff that came after me:

    @Frost2dragon

    Agree with the note that you're going to need to get new original art for some of these.  Silvermoon Lorekeeper feels very very niche for a Basic card, since its a counter for a counter. It's absolutely thematic in how it shows shows the primacy of weapons for the class, but it feels like a response to the meta rather than a card you'd practically consider using.

    @MvonTzeskagrad

    I really like your stuff.  My biggest note is mostly copyediting, since there's some missing or unnecessary capitalization throughout your card text ("Lowest Attack" instead of "lowest Attack", "Spell damage" instead of "Spell Damage", etc).  Also 'casted' is not a term in the game, maybe "played a spell" this turn for Pandaren Loremaster.

    @Anatomy_of_Time

    Heh, great minds think alike!  Although I think we're going down pretty separate paths even if starting from a similar space.  I like a lot of your concepts.  My two notes would be on Trail of Magic which feels overcosted for how narrow it is (I have a similar overcosted tutor draw, but the Spell Damage minion restriction feels like a step beyond mine), and Ray of Venom which doesn't quite scan for its cost.  I get that it's your Assassinate, but I don't get why it is 1 cheaper than Assassinate if the only downside is Divine Shield targets.  Also not sure why it's 2 damage and poisonous, since 1 damage would do the trick, but that's minor.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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