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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase I [Submission Topic]

    The Sapper

    Graduated top of her class at Area 52's B.O.O.M.U. (Go Bots!). Recipient of the prestigious Blastfizzle Award for Sapping Excellence. And now, unemployed (it's a tough job market everywhere).  Befriending Deathwing wasn't on the initial gameplan, but it's at least better than temping.

    Moving on to the cards, let's introduce this class's keyword: Scourge!

    As you can see, Scourge is a keyword in the same vein as Spare Parts, representing a specialized set of uncollectable spells that hinder the caster or help the caster’s opponent. Unlike Spare Parts you're not going to want to have these in your hand, as we can see from taking a look at the four different Scourges that maybe put into your opponent's hand with The Sapper's Hero Power:

    These four represent the Basic Scourges of the Sapper class, much like the totems summoned by the Shaman Hero Power are Basic Totems. Other minions and spells in the Sapper class can add Scourges to your opponent's hand, or sometimes your own as an additional cost.  More advanced Scourges will also be introduced, like cards which force your opponent to destroy their own minions or have different in-hand punishments instead of increasing Costs. The power of the Basic Scourges are balanced by the simple fact that you can't control when your opponent will decide to play them.

    The Sample Cards

    In order of Set Release:

    Lock Down (Basic) - For a Sapper, the best battle is the one that you never have to fight. This is a synecdoche for the Sapper's spell based approach to minions on the battlefield, namely that it's one of their weak points.  The class won't have direct ways to deal damage to enemy minions, and destroy effects will be rare and conditional, forcing them to rely on friendly minions and Scourges for removal.  What they will have is more control based: Sap is a big inspiration (natch), but they will also have effects like Lock Down which attempt to render the enemy minion harmless through modifying how and whether they act.

    Rixmix Boomwizzle (Classic) - The salutatorian under Gug, Rixmix didn't let school rivalry get in the way of messing with other's. Rixmix combines a decent body with an effect the Sapper loves. The class will feature many cards that key off of the opponent's big hand size, so having a way to both max them out but also clog them up does great double duty. It also indirectly burns a card from the opponent's deck, assisting in potential mill decks.

    Mind Control Gas (Naxx) - Warning, a new Secret class approaching! While it makes complete sense for tricksy Rogues to have access to Secrets, I was a bit disappointed that we've now got two 2-Cost Secret classes.  The Sapper's Secrets will all cost (4), which I think opens up some new design space that can push beyond what we've seen before.  For instance, with Mind Control Gas you can turn any friendly minion into a Sylvanas Windrunner . I'm particularly pleased with my take on the Ice Block fatal damage negation Secret , but since it involves a new Hero portrait and weapon token it'd be against the rules for this round.

    Support-o-Tron (Gv.G) - What self respecting goblin wouldn't take all the mechies she could grab on her way out of Area 52? Support-o-Tron is a good representation of how the Sapper will key off of the opponent's hand size to gain additional effects or powers. When the effect is a one-off the threshold is 6 or more cards in the opponent's hand, based off the nameless Goblin Sapper who inspired so many others.  Other cards will base their direct effects on how many cards are currently in hand, e.g. +1/+1 for each card your opponent holds or "Attack is equal to number of cards in your opponent's hand."  Mechs are also the tribe most closely affiliated with Sappers (akin to Dragons for Priests or Elementals for Mages), representing their biggest bruisers and heavies.  When in doubt, call on the Mechavalry!

    Goblin Subterfuger (Mean Streets) - ( Gug Note: Yes, I know Subterfuger isn't a real word, but you try telling a Gadgetzaner that! ) In addition to futzing around with the opponent's hand the Sapper knows that if you want to win you have to disrupt their draws and deck as well. Subterfuger is probably one of the more out there effects, with the typical implementation being closer to Beneath the Grounds . Still, once the Sapper gets going the enemy should ideally start to worry about how much to trust their own deck.  Of course, the same principle can be reflected as a boon for the Sapper, and the class will feature cards that place tools in the deck for later use, and might even feature cards that tutor or destroy cards deliberately shuffled into decks.

    Thanks for reading this far, and good luck to all participating!

    Edits made for image size/location.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Weekly Card Design Competition 6.02 - Discussion Topic

    One of my off the top of my head ideas.  Not sure if it's balanced as is.

    Don't feel like making the card for it yet, but along the same lines I was thinking of a Rogue version where both players Draw 3, with a Combo of making your opponents cost (1) more to revitalize my beloved Mill Rogue.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Weekly Card Design Competition 5.12 - Discussion Topic

    I figured I'd try and go for an anti-Elemental tech card. A secret to disrupt the next turn was my first thought. At this moment I'm not sure if it fits in Hunter, and I'm not entirely satisfied with the wording (originally just said until end of next turn but realized that would be your turn and would effectively do nothing).  Also, is "Secret: If your opponent played an Elemental last turn, [X] until next turn" valid wording?

    EDIT: And literally a second after posting this, just realized that it'd probably be easier to just make this a minion with "Battlecry: Enemy Elementals cost (5) more next turn" ala Loatheb huh?

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase I Discussion
    Quote from Greengorilla87 >>

    Hero: Ajax, The Collector.


    First, you're going to need to adjust the hero power to fit in with the challenge requirements.  Namely, it needs to create a unique token/card, and I don't think we're allowed to use Keywords before the expansion where they first appeared, thus you won't be able to have Discover before we get to TGT. Off the top of my head, I think a quick fix is have the HP add a (1)-Cost Tracking-like card to your hand, maybe alter it so that it allows you to get a copy of a card from your deck, rather than drawing it. while discarding the others. Note: I'm not actually sure if that would be kosher since it mimics Discovery, but then so doesTracking.  Best to ask a mod for clarification.
    As to your actual cards, if Bulk Haul is one of the few cards that will replenish your deck it seems like between the HP and the other cards tutoring for duplicates you'll be gunning for fatigue pretty often? I don't have the maths off the top of my head, but the discarding and tutoring would seem to be working against one another.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase I Discussion
    Quote from ZephyrKobayshi >>

    But with that mentality, how will any new mechanics ever be implemented ever, oh you can't do this because the game didn't do it before is a silly argument. The whole point of these is to create something new.

     I'd say there's a difference between technical aspects (what the code of the game will allow) and mechanics (the rules of the game).  I think people are a lot more comfortable with new mechanics, but messing with what people know the technical aspects will currently allow might be a harder sell.
    And again, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, or that you won't be successful. I think the Bard class from the last CC had a unique mechanic that might be seen as altering the technical side (since it let some minions have a 'tap' like effect, which we don't currently see in the actual game) and that won.  I am saying that you should be prepared for people to point out how you're altering a technical thing, and thus be prepared to address those concerns with more than "the game can be changed to fit."
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase I Discussion
    Quote from ZephyrKobayshi >>

    And really, the technical capabilities of what hearthstone can do now is nothing to do with this, they could very easily add that function into the game if they wanted to.

     As something to consider, I think that a lot of voters and even some of the mods like to assume that certain technical issues remain constant when making fan cards.  For instance, I know a common stipulation in competitions on the forum is that you can't make a Deathrattle which triggers Discover, because as is the game doesn't allow your opponent to make choices during your turn.
    As is, Corruption seems to be built entirely on that kind of technical limitation.  You're free to argue and explain how it would function (time you take during your opponent's turn counting toward your turn makes some sense), but you should be prepared for people to see you violating a no-go technical issue and not agreeing with your workarounds or that you're specific class deserves to fundamentally alter them for a keyword.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase I Discussion
    Quote from cL4wzHS >>

    I like the general idea of a control based class but Im not sure you need to make Scourge a keyword. Even if you decide to do so dont pur it on spells to kep the consistent pattern Blizzard has. Rixmix is too powrrful in my opinion as it punishes control decks and is very under powered agains rush decks who will be likely living off topdecks by turn 5. I feel addind something like up to a maximum of 3 would fix this problem but that is only a wuick solution which I thought of in 10s. The rest seems fine.

     Thanks for the feedback!  As to the keyword, I want to try to make it similar to a 'totem' classification for spells, so that I can have other cards that replace Scourges, count them, etc.  The only other way I can think of to accomplish the same effect is always referring to "Cards added by the Sapper" but that's a bit wordy.  Alternative suggestions are welcome.
    For Rixmix, I think those concerns are a feature not a bug, in that it's not intended to be applicable equally in all matchups.  As to power concerns, most cards that add Scourges will be directly to hand but I thought one Legendary should be able to affect/disrupt draws.  One thing I could use more thoughts on is a "average number of cards in opponent's hand" number to keep in mind.  For instance, in BRM I've seen the average number of "minions killed this turn" to be set around 2-3 so that cards should be overcosted by about that much with that assumption.  I'm not sure where to peg that for my ideas. Maybe 4-6?
    First, do you think it's adequately balanced? Drawing your opponent a card is a big downside. I'd honestly rather have Sabotaged! cost mana so they'd have to waste some to get rid of the effect. Not saying it's better, I'm just saying I would've preferred it.
    I might be biased, but I think it's pretty balanced? I think a big part is that the drawback is in putting the control solely in the hands of the opponent. The cost increase and "opponent's hand size matter" aspects are nudges, but you can't force the situation beyond a certain point.  Plus the fact that it's a spell means that some classes would be willing to give up a card to trigger Wyrms, Auctioneers, etc.  As an aside, currently one of the basic Scourges I have shortlisted is a (1) cost card that's just meant to burn off mana, although I'm toying between that and just giving the Sapper a Coin.
    Does Rixmix's effect clog the deck up too much? It seems like drawing Sabotaged! does not automatically replace itself like Ambush! or Burrowing Mine.
    Correct on the Sabotaged! not replacing itself, intent is to clog up the deck akin to a bunch of Weasel Tunneler. As of now it's the only card in the class capable of clogging up the deck, which is because I thought it'd be a good Legendary effect.  See above re: my concerns about how to weight the base effect, also considering making it a flat amount of cards added.
    Lock Down is way way way way too expensive. Sure in some situations you shut your opponent down, but an Emperor Thaurissan sure still needs to get destroyed, so does Ragnaros and a bunch of others. "Can't Attack" is just one of those things that can either be uber powerful or absolute trash.
    Heh, I actually have a version that's (4) because I thought I'd get grief for making it too cheap! My costing is based around the closest analog I could think of, Humilty.  But I think the "can't handle cards that are best destroyed" is a bug, since one of the weaknesses of the class will be dealing with those kinds of cards with just spells.  
    Does anyone else think that (3) is too expensive? One of my other ideas was for it to be reshuffled into your deck if your opponent had 6 or more cards in hand, but I thought that would be too complicated/wordy for a Basic card.
    Can you explain why you said your 4-mana Secrets should have 6-mana equivalent effects? Shouldn't it be 5-mana effects? e.g. a 2-mana Bear Trap = a 3-mana Ironfur Grizzly. Not to keen on Mind Control Gas for the same reason as Lock Down. It can be really good or absolute trash. Look at how rarely Mirror Image is being played. While it has the potential to steal big minions, you're likely going to get garbage, and 3-mana is not worth the chance of whiffing.
    I guess I was being too general, but I was thinking of how Explosive Trap compares to Consecration, or Vaporize v.Assassinate. As to the underpowered aspect, I think that's just an inherent aspect of Secrets, no?
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase I Discussion

     Ok, since my big question was answered I guess it's time to try and get some initial feed back on my class.

    The Sapper Class

    Not all heroes want to fight on the front lines, especially the smart ones. Sappers, for instance, know that the best win is one you secure before there even is a front line.  This is a class about controlling the conditions of the battle and stymieing your opponent's forward movement while developing the large artillery you'll need to end the fight once and for all.

    The Sapper's main tool is subterfuge, and their hero power and unique Keyword is a prime example of this mindset:

    Like the evil cousin of Spare Parts, Scourge cards are a special class of spells that will have negative effects for the user and represent the machinations of the Sapper's plans.  Usually the Sapper will give their opponent Scourges, but they can also be applied to the Sapper as an extra cost or drawback to their spells or minions.  Much like the Shaman's totems, there will be a set of four basic Scourge cards (Sabotaged! being one of the four) but also specialized Scourges created by individual minions or spells. 

    Example Cards

    Rixmix Boomwizzle: As befits a class who wants to load up their opponent's hand with obstructionist cards, some cards in the Sapper class will benefit from your opponent's hand size.  Sometimes this will be an extra effect if your opponent has a certain set number of cards in hand (usually at least 6 or more, taking after the example of Goblin Sapper), but other times the effect will trigger or benefit off of how many cards your opponent currently has in hand, as we see here with Rixmix.

    Lock Down: This card represents a core theme of the class, "Neutralization but not removal."  One of the big reasons the Sapper wants to make it harder for the opponent to play stuff is that it won't have access to a lot of the normal types of removal.  Destroy effects, even conditional removal ala Priest, will be rare, and direct damage from spells will be even harder to come by.  While some Scourges might assist, like some that force the opponent to choose a minion of their own to destroy, those will inherently not be direct.  Instead, the Sapper will rely on effects to neutralize the effects of minions when they make it to the board, as we see with Lock Down.  The minion is still there and would still retain any auras, Deathrattles, end of turn abilities, etc., but at least it can't strike.  We might also see "soft neutralization" like removing minions ability to go face, or reductions in Attack, etc.

    Mind Control Gas: Fairly straightforward, but another Secret class!  As you can see, the Sapper's secrets will be the first to cost (4). This means we'll see effects that can conditionally recreate the effects of 6-Cost cards, like this Secret turning minions into Sylvanas-alikes, as well as new effects outside the range of Mage's 3-Cost Secrets.

     Thanks in advance for any feedback.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase I Discussion

    I've got a rules/challenge question, specifically about an interaction between Challenge #3 and the no unique token part of the example cards: Are we allowed to have our keyword/unique feature be a spell subtype ala Spare Parts?*  Specifically, I'm working on a class whose main gimmick is adding spells to the opponent's hand/deck that have deleterious effects that I'm tentatively calling Scourge cards.  My idea was that the Hero Power would add a specific Scourge card to the opponent's hand, but that there would be a bunch of Scourges that other minions or spells would be able to create, and maybe even have Basic Scourges and then higher level/more restricted versions (sort of like how some Shaman cards can refer to "basic totems").  I believe the Mario class from the previous CC did something similar by calling it's spells Power-Ups.

    However, I'm not sure if this type of Keyword would violate the no unique tokens clause of the Example Cards restriction, because the Keyword by it's nature would be unique tokens. I think a workaround for this stage would be to say "The hero power makes a specific Scourge card, and there are other Scourges that will be revealed later" but wanted to make sure that would be kosher before I submitted and then got bounced.

    If that kind of Keyword isn't allowed, I could always stick with just having those minions/spells/effects add specific/non-token cards, but I don't want to resort to that if there are other options available.

    Thanks for your help.

    *Apologies if this has already been addressed and answered, I scanned this thread but didn't see any Keywords or discussion that concerned the same point.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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