I've locked the thread and will posting the voting thread tomorrow morning.
Did we ever find out the keyword you thought would have a rough time with the challenge? That was a dangling plot thread this phase haha.
I've locked the thread and will posting the voting thread tomorrow morning.
Did we ever find out the keyword you thought would have a rough time with the challenge? That was a dangling plot thread this phase haha.
These look good, great job!
Book Worm can be a 3/2 or 2/3. Arcane Flakmage shows that "When you play a Secret" effects don't require a stat reduction, especially for 3 mana secrets. I get that there's a potential to snowball and fill the board if you manage to play two or more secrets in a turn (1 Book Worm becoming 2 becoming 4), but that either requires an 8 mana three card combo to get two secrets and 4 minions, or a series of lucky turns/cot reductions.
Heroic Sidekick should be like Magic Carpet and refer to '0-Cost' rather than 'spend (0)'. The 0-Cost wording would still trigger on minions which had their cost reduced, and might make for cleaner wording/less lines.
Light Reading you may want to copy the Combo text from Headcrack, although I guess functionally end of turn is equal to start of next turn.
Just wanted to say I like Netherlight Scrollkeeper as a simple but class specific card and the reworked Climax.
I agree with the suggestion to reword the "if you got profit" effects. My main hangup is that Profit the keyword does nothing on the turn you use it, but gives you more mana later. So does "If you got profit last turn" mean that you played a Profit card last turn, or does it mean that you played a Profit card two turns ago and got extra mana (the lower case profit) last turn? If the intention is the former, then a simple change would be "If you played a Profit card last turn."
Capital Injection is a good card, although from looking back at your Basic/Part 1 I think you only have two cards with end of turn effects.
Coatless Manipulator is too cheap. Its an undercosted 8/8 with essentially two upsides, since only the most aggro of decks (or a Bloom (0) focused Nymph) want to surprise draw 8 cards. Pretty sure there are Wild meme Warlocks giving opponents Octosari with Treachery to force them to overdraw, and Coatless Manipulator doesn't even make you jump through any hoops on top of giving you a giant body. Draw 3, maybe Draw 4, for the opponent would be an actual downside. Or maybe giving the opponent extra mana?
Speculate and Trade Prince Maldy are both great.
The reason I have a ton of relevant art for the cards I'm making is because I've looked for it before actually making the Nymph. I absolutely did not want to find myself in the situation where I had to give up on a card idea because I didn't have the card art for it. So, before starting, I looked up a bunch of stuff on ArtStation and MTG Art based on the ideas I had for some classes and in the end made the one I had the most art for.
Haha I think this is about the exact opposite of my process! I'll spend a bunch of time getting my card text right, then spend about 3x that amount trying to cram the square peg of mechanics into the round hole of whatever art I can cobble together. Google images 'similar images' feature gets a workout from me.
Okay so I made a few changes based on feedback. Twisted Bargain felt wierd from the get go nd I managed to find a better idea so here goes :
Previous versions :
Raven's Eye I pushed is a more token direction, making it similar to Duskbat.
Primordial Wind went through so many iterations... I'm not sure which version is the most flavorful and interesting. I like the last one but I'm not sure.
Foretelling I like both versions and I don't know which one is best. The first really encourages to meet the requirement but can be kinda dead, which led me to the second version but then I fear it's a bit too strong without meeting the requirement.
Identity Crisis is my way to tackle this week's challenge. It's removal with the damage and the change of tribe that can be exploited with something like Hungry Crab but also a way to give one of your minions all tribes and power-up Channel effects. The name is a bit on-the-nose so I might change it to "Amalgam Bolt" or something.
Agree with the others, you nailed Identity Crisis in one.
Foretelling should be draw 3 with the potential for an extra card. As mentioned previously, "Draw 3" is worth about 4.5 mana, "Draw 4" is worth about 6. Foretelling drawing 3 on its own means its not ideal, but still playable if you topdeck it. Then if you work to get the conditions right you get a bonus upside. If the baseline is draw 1 then it becomes essentially a dead card unless you can assemble the right board, which is more frustrating.
Primordial Wind might have been one tweak too far. I get you're trying to push Channel farther, but by tying this to having a board full of the same tribe it either becomes a dead card or a heavy win-more card. The 6-Cost "Deal 1 damage thrice" version is balanced and simple. If you want to stick with the Channel version, I'd suggest a slight wording tweak. When a spell 'gives' a minion something it means it becomes part of the minion's text, so saying you're giving a minion "deal 1 damage to all enemies" feels weird since there's no trigger.
I'd suggest "Channel: Give a minion Windfury, then deal 1 damage to all enemies." That separates it out into giving the minion (and all others with the same tribe) Windfury, and then separately dealing 1 damage to all enemies (once for that minion, then repeating again for all others with the same tribe).
JOURNEYMAN SET - PART II SHOWCASE
JOURNEYMAN SET - PART II
Engineer Basic Set
Mech Mook tokens
Journeyman Set - Part I
Thanks again to everyone, and good luck to all other participants.
Ok, I already laid out my 20 card Journeyman set in the last discussion thread, here's where I'll try to nail down my showcase and then my challenge card.
Showcase wise I'm thinking these three:
Fun With Portals has been changed from its earlier "Draw 1 card (improved by Spell Damage)" version to be much more tied to needing a Spell Damage source to be viable. Sparklash I just like the design, and Octavian is the remaining legendary.
The remaining set of options:
Of these potential showcases, my leading alternates are Nether Grenade, Target Lock, and Omega Surge. Nether Grenade is the weakest alternate because Sparklash gets at the same (to my mind) neat 'Deal 0 Damage' angle while also supplying the Spell Damage underpinning. Target Lock I like, but I recognize the way I've costed it (1 with a 5 mana surcharge instead of 6 with a 5 mana discount) is janky, although I think my version works within the code of the game. Omega Surge is just a lot of nice big easy numbers, which might be enough for a showcase now that I think about it.
For my challenge, I'm pre-retiring the original Dual Sheller, which was just Arcanite Reaper with Surge. Tinkertown Thug already satisfies the 'vanilla with Surge' aspect of the set, and I don't have anything already made that fits the challenge.
Here's the kind of stuff I'm thinking so far, welcome any feedback:
Since it's replacing a Common card I'm trying to make the tie-in effect simple. Since Surge is about spreading the damage around to enemies, the easiest to grasp tie-in would be something that pings off multiple enemies being damaged (i.e. you hit one minion with Surge and the excess splashed onto another enemy minion).
Tinker Trainee and Dual Sheller A are both intended to be triggered after one Surge hit. Adding Vent spells to the hand seems on the simpler end of things while still being useful. Tinker Rocker is intended to be the class's version of the 1/3 with Attack pumping; I made it until end of turn because it'd definitely get out of hand faster than Mana Wyrm if it kept the pump. Dual Sheller B is a similar concept Attack increase.
I generally agree with Anatomy_of_Time's thoughts, although if Inquisitive Youngling just gives a 1/1 copy of the card in your hand, rather than summoning a 1/1 copy on the board, you're fine. Agree with McF4rtson that the simplest keyword synergy for your challenge card will be something like a Nightmare Amalgam or something that Amalgam-izes a minion so that all Channel and tribe effects apply.
Generally looks good, you really explored the (improved by Spell Damage) space well. Specific thoughts:
Jadebark Dragon: The "Your next spell costs (0)" mechanic is so variably costed, but I think a specific hand size is about right.
Thalia: This is tricky, because the cost is right assuming ideal conditions (plenty of spells played throughout the game with the right hand size) but it's hard to know at a glance how easy those idealconditions are. Although the spells aspect is presumably easiest to take care of with just Razorpetals, this is a lot like the other legendary where it also requires you to potentially hoard petals while waiting for the right time to strike. Since the drawing ability for the class isn't the best petals will probably end up being the main way to work around Bloom. Outside of the ideal scenario it's way overcosted, so once you draw it you end up working to make sure its not a dead card. I'd suggest a tweak so that it has a minor effect on its own with a more powerful Bloom effect if you can get everything to line up, but that could get wordy.
Riverbound Cleaver: So my first thought is that this is Fatecleaver outside of its unique Arena-exclusive setting, and I don't think one more mana is enough to justify two copies being added to a deck. This essentially gives the potential for four Flik Skyshivs each game! Maybe if you limit it to all other copies currently in play?
It sounds like you'll be reworking some of the other cards, but with regards to Tenris, what about the other Classic class legendaries would you consider weak? In general, your Classic legendary should be something thematic with your class that either functions as a win condition on its own (or can support the win condition for the deck), or at least needs to be dealt with immediately.
Hmm, why eliminate anyone for this round? That is, why not just let the current 11 roll through and then add up the cumulative scores for the Initiate set to determine the final 4?
I get that initially the "Eliminate five each round until you get to four finalists" was clean and symmetrical, but with the phase two non-participants self reducing the number of contestants anyway, at this point I don't think the difference between 10 and 11 contestants in the third phase is too much cognitive load to handle.
@Artimex723 Watch out. Your original upgraded Hero Power token was a gold card. That's against the rules. I had to make a new version of it for you.
As for the cut-off, the bottom two scoring entries will be eliminated. The original number was 5, but there were 3 contestants who did not re-enter.
Thanks for adding in a full image version of the Wish card, kept meaning to go back and add that to my post (instead of just the link to the card name) but then got wrapped up in Last of Us 2.
Just a note that SoupCake's token spoiler is missing the 1/1, 2/2, and 3/3 Familiar tokens generated by the Hero Power.
Taking your comments into consideration... how about these for the Adept set?
The changes look good. Just a heads up, and it might just be my computer, but looks like your post formatting got janked up, it's missing the Hero portrait and standard Hero Power. I know I had to spend about fifteen minutes unborking my initial post attempt since the forum ate all of my line breaks.
Thanks for your suggestions. Just to clarify, Blood Pact can trigger more than once. I should have made that clear. I'll have Blood Pact on minions in the next 10, I wanted to do it on spells for now.
I'd like to hear feedback about this change. I realize now that the wording is a bit hard to read on the first card so I changed up the design to make it trigger Blood Pact for some more combos.
No idea what I was thinking when making it deal 8 damage. I tuned down the power a bit to make it less powerful.
Ah I think I understand. If Blood Pact is a minion keyword then the spells should probably be worded that they are giving the minion additional card text, ala Ancestral Spirit. So Evil Lair would be: Give a minion "Blood Pact: Add a random Witch spell to your hand."
The reworked Witchslayer looks much better. Bleed might be a bit too strong still at 5 damage, but at 4 it would be fine. I like the Blood Pact synergy.
I like the Narrative keyword, although I think the tooltip wording might need some clarification. Something like "A bonus if this card's Cost has been changed," would make it sync up with stuff like Combo.
The two examples of Cost-reducing you've shown so far are good, I look forward to seeing the other enablers in the rest of the set. For Manuscript of Shifting Words you might want to add "(from any class)" to make that aspect of the randomness clearer, I think for spell generating effects it's usually specified whether the spell is from a particular class or any class. The Journey Begins Narrative effect could probably be "Discover a copy of a minion in your deck", which would put it in line with stuff like Stitched Tracker and Shadow Visions.
Copy editing wise, there's some uncapitalized keywords you'll want to watch out for. Specifically, "Battlecry" and "Secret" should be capitalized and bolded when they're referenced in a card text. Overall really good work!
Upgraded Hero Power and Basic Set Link
Introduction of the Journeyman Set
The Engineer debuts during THE BOOMSDAY PROJECT expansion, a science based new hero for a science heavy new set. After receiving their Basic Set players will get introduced to the remaining Journeyman Cards, representing the second level of engineering prowess.
The Engineer arrives on the scene with its very own class keyword, Surge:
Surge represents the Engineer harnessing the normally wasted energy from overpowering foes and putting it to good use.
JOURNEYMAN SET SHOWCASE CARDS
Brainstorm shows how Surge can be used to introduce fun decisions with normal damage dealing. Will you use it to draw a card and knock out a pesky Chillwind Yeti, or perhaps use it on a weaker minion to rack up more card draw?
Get Rowdy! is rooted in typical Engineer mind control shenanigans. Think of this like an inverse-Brawl, where you can use an enemy's strongest minion against his own side....as long as you're prepared to take a few hits yourself.
Mechano-Lord Capacitus is meant to be a fun build around card. The spell in question is Wish, a returning Dungeon Run Treasure from the Kobolds and Catacombs era. That was always my favorite Treasure to watch go off during a run, and now you can experience the huge swing in an actual game! Sure it takes is harnessing the energy from twenty spells and 19 Mana, but think of the payoff!
JOURNEYMAN SET PART 1
Thanks for checking out The Engineer, and good luck to the other competitors!
Ok, thanks again for all the feedback guys! Glad that Surge seems to be a success. Big immediate changes are as follows:
Originally designed Octavian as this class's Grommash Hellscream, but Rush does just make more sense. Steamwheedle was just me being dumb and not crosschecking names, won't be my first time making that mistake I'm guessing.
Chief Bilgewhizzle was me trying to make a simple but flashy Legendary effect, but I think it's too much to balance with the rest of the class. I toyed around with some other numbers to see if I could make it work, but I feel like it's too much hassle when it would warp available design space if done wrong.
Mechano-Lord Capacitus is my replacement. In lieu of a simple (but OP) effect, it's a quirky build around. The Wish is from the Dungeon Run treasures. It's obviously a hugely massive effect if you get it off, but the necessary game long buildup and fact that the opponent has a turn's notice to get ready is hopefully enough of a downside to make up for the payoff. I'd also think this would satisfy the 'past mechanic' challenge?
As for the feedback on other specific cards:
Dual Sheller - I acknowledge this is a strictly better Arcanite Reaper, but I'm operating under the assumption that non-Basic weapons can be strictly better than Basic weapons of the same cost. For instance, Fiery War Axe v. Eaglehorn Bow.
Target Lock - I admit the wording is janky, but I'm not sure if switching the costs (so it costs 6 but can get a reduction) would work. Specifically, if you only had 2 mana wouldn't the game not let you choose the spell and target a minion because you didn't have enough for the base Cost? With my wording it would allow you to choose it and target, but then would render invalid if you picked an undamaged target. Unlike something like Crush this mana reduction is target, not board state, specific. Note that if my understanding of the game code is off, and that you'd be able to select and target with a (6) cost spell on turn 2, I'll switch over to the cleaner wording.
Burly Beating - It is intended to be a finisher card, albeit one that you have to set up properly. Essentially, the card allows you to use your minions normal attacks as you wish, and then unleash another round of attacks. The ideal would be to clear out the enemy minions with spells, which allows you to effectively give your board of minions Windfury for the turn (they attack face once, then get forced to attack again with the spell). If there are minions it becomes more of a RNG where you use your initial attacks as you want and then hope the random attacks hit the right targets in the right sequence, but I actually like the feel of Mass Hysteria so mileage may vary.
Phlogiston Ranger - I might be missing something with the OP v. Midrange concern? Since the Immune boost only covers the attack the enemy is still able to use their turn to hit your minions.
Thanks again for the feedback. And now my comments:
Mostly agree with everyone else's comments, it's a well designed hero power and set of cards. Vulcanus can be powered up some (I like the previously mentioned idea to reduce the cost of the dragon added to your hand), and while I'm jealous I didn't think of Flame Sweep's text myself I'm also not sure how it'd play. It definitely feels very swingy, and I'm sure would lead to some fun streams.
So I'm clear, would this be functionally identical to how The Caverns Below triggers off cards with the same name (so the second copy of Overt Operative you play in a game has its Reprise triggered), or is the intention that Reprise cares about each specific card (so that you have to bounce or otherwise replay each of your Overt Operatives to give them Charge)? Based on Be Water I'm guessing it's the former, but just wanted to make sure. Fluttering Breeze is fun already (mostly for reminding me of fun Slay the Spire deck builds). I'm a little hesitant about always on Immune (a while back I made a thread feeling out what would happen with permanently Immune minions and the responses made me realize it could get crazy) but finding the legendary and playing it four times might be enough of a hurdle to justify it.
Once again, really glad we went down such divergent paths even with similar hero powers haha! Of these I really like Ancient Sporecrown, and especially liked that you cracked the 'one off Spell Damage +2' effect with Untapped Energy. My personal hangup is that I don't tend to like effects that require an empty hand, but the ones you have here seem balanced and Incoming Drought at least lets you plan ahead. For Eliana I'd say go with the (5) cost 3/5 version. I get the hesitance with the increased burst potential, but it also requires a lot of turns of set up and works against the lower Bloom effects.
Is the intention of Blood Pact that it will only trigger once, or that it gives the minion a sort of "every time this takes damage" effect? I assume the latter, but the wording of the tooltip makes it seem like a two step/one off process (cast spell on minion, it takes damage and triggers, Blood Pact gone). If it is the latter, why is it a spell only effect and not a minion keyword? That is, why is it something you always have to spend a card to give to a minion, rather than potentially something a minion can have automatically.
Plague Lord Sik is great, an awesome and flavorful Legendary. Some of the cards feel a bit OP though. Witchslayer needs to have that direct damage number dialed down or maybe made minion only, but as is it would be on par with something like Ragnaros! Bleed is less glaring, but you've effectively made a straightforward "Deal 4 damage to a minion for (2)" when that vanilla effect costs (3). Bad Omen is a great effect, but also one of those things where you have to balance between doubling up on a game breaking Deathrattle or whiffing.
I have a small question before I start making the cards, just to avoid isuues like the last time. Can I include secrets and Stealth cards in my initiate set?
Yes, the 'Initiate' is like the Classic set so everything (barring set specific keywords) is on the table. And based on DH's Initiate set Discover and Rush are core (as opposed to set specific) mechanics, so even though its not present in the original 9 classes Classic cards we can include it here.
Okay let's beggin ! I'm planning on tying my class to Journey to Un'goro (which is still absent form the list of expansions in the FAQ...) an since MSoG won't be a part of the competition, I decided to give it some love with a hand buff card. I'm also introducing a new keyword ! I made 10 cards with that keyword, trying to explore it as much as possible. I might split them across the 2 parts of what I decided to call the Pioneer Set or group them all in the same submission.
So my new keyword : Channel ! I designed it to explore tribal synergies and emulate the flavor of family in my class.
So it might not be exactly clear what I mean. Let me elaborate. Cards with Channel have a targetted effect when you play them. If you target a minion with a tribe (Beast, Murloc, Elemental, etc), then the effect will target all minions with the same tribe. The targets must be in the same zone of the game so if the first target is a minion on the board, it will only target other minions on the board and if the first target is a card in your deck it will only target other cards in you deck. Spells and weapons don't have tribes and so do many minions so they would be the only target. Heroes mostly don't have a tribe either but Lord Jaraxxus is an interesting precedent... Let me show you the cards :
As you can see, I couldn't decide between using it alone or with a colon. The thing is, I don't want minion's attacks to be affected by the keyword which the colon helps disambiguate but I find it a bit more elegant without it... What do you like best ?
I tried to explore as many effects as I could think of and I quite like how it turned out. I'm a bit worried that the class might not have a clear identity but tribal synergies are such core to the whole that it might be alright.
Hmm, this is tricky. On the one hand, I intuitively get the intention of the keyword, but in practice the actual mechanics can be headscratching, as your uncertainty about whether to include the colon indicates. The only thing I'm really sure of is that I think you should take 'target' out of the tooltip description, because if you're including random effects ("give a random minion in hand +1/+1", "attack a random enemy") then those by definition aren't targeted.
Might need to ask others more rules literate than me if this hotfix makes sense, but I would suggest making it a more reactive/follow through keyword. So for Dining Dino, instead of "Channel: Deal 2 damage" (which makes it unclear if the normal attacks also hit all minions of the same tribe) it would be "Battlecry: Deal 2 damage, then Channel," with Channel being described as something like "If this affected a minion with a tribe, it also affects all other minions of that tribe."
Good luck to everyone this round! Interesting challenge, although I have to be honest that I needed to double check the Initiate set to see which minion had the Spellstone mechanic (poor overshadowed Nethrandamus).
The Engineer's introductory set will be The Journeyman Set as it's the second level of Engineering recipes in WoW (was initially going to call this The Apprentice set but....yeah).
The class's unique keyword is Surge:
Surge represents the Engineer harnessing the normally wasted energy from overpowering foes and putting it to good use. Hopefully that's clear/immediately grokkable; If you see or think of any unclear interactions let me know. Original thought was to have it randomly split among all enemies (including the enemy hero), but that ended up limiting my design space since excessive excess could be immediately game ending.
I'm envisioning this having come out during The Boomsday Project (really my only science-y options were TBT or Goblins v. Gnomes haha)
The Journeyman cards I have so far:
Goblin Tinkerer was my homage to the tri-class Discover cards of MSoG, I've always had a soft spot for ways to shake up the Discover presentation.
I have creator commentary/discussion to go along with these but I kind of want to get immediate reactions first without tipping the feedback.
Submission wise, I think I'll split them up into Surge and Spell Damage buckets, with the first week being the more Surge and "attack random enemy" focused cards (ending with Octavian Gearlegs) and the second week being Bilgewhizzle's time to shine. Figure Surge should go first since it's the newest/flashiest.
With the rise of technology in the world of Azeroth, tinkers are becoming common among almost all factions and races. A rarer breed, however, are the geniuses among the tinkers who focus their intelligence on a particular type of technology and can lead impossibly ambitious projects that turn fantasy into reality. Some engineer's fantasize about great works of infrastructure or useful devices. Spanner Brassgrip had the kind of explosively charged fantasies that got him kicked out of Gnomeregan for, in his words, "being too fun." He took the exile in stride as now he and his like minded goblin and gnomish engineers have more time to indulge in their greatest works.
Unique Keywords: Surge
Core Keywords: Spell Damage, Immune while attacking
REMAINING BASIC SET
Mech Mook tokens:
Thanks to @Sideltem and @MvonTzeskagrad for the help! I made some cards that will replace the ones from my first post. I also changed the name of the class and the hero, and created a new mechanic, Burn, thinking on the next cards.
I present you the Dragon Knight!
I kept the idea of having Dragons on board as one of the benefits.
I have also reduced the amount of minions on the basic set to 4, following the maximum in Hunter and DH. And of course, I have left the Bonds for another set (changing them) 'cause they are both complex and confusing.
The rest of the cards:
The quotes for all cards, that I didn't make the first time:
Teen Whelp: "You know, he is in a difficult age...".
The Little on Fire: "They have just born and they are burning things".
Imprisoned Daughter: "If just some grey-skinned god could help her...".
Fire Coil: "Again and again and again and... ouch!".
Fire Whelp: "Dragons borning from the fire? How could this be possible anyway?"
I See Fire: "...inside the mountain".
Blessing of the Red: "She brings life, hope, death, fire... and cards. Things that fit very well".
Breath of the Ancients: "Not the kind of smell you would use for an air freshener".
Long-Form Dragon: "As long as angry (with you)".
Hollow Fangs: "Fangs? Have the vampires arrived yet?"
And the token:
Much improved, good job! Although you're missing one of the cards, judging from the flavor text it looks like Fire Coil. Card wise they all look pretty good. If Fire Whelp is (2) then you can probably make it a 0/3, like Primalfin Totem.