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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion
    Quote from Klipce >>

    Just saw the feedback on my quest reward as I was about to finish my final post and I have to agree that it is a bit clunky and not hard to build around... So let's rework it ! I came up with a few options but I don't know which one is best.

    Each takes a different direction. #1 is more value oriented but it seems a bit weak to me. #2 is a bit crazy and I like that but maybe a bit boring. #3 is cool but it's not swingy at all.

    The thing is, Un'Goro quest rewards were both simple and game-changing, which I want to replicate. Each of them interacted with a different part of the game and since Fatigue wasn't touched on yet I figured it would be a good design space but I forgot that bringing you deck to fatigue requires heavy deckbuilding which can overshadow the quest it self.

    So yeah here are my options, I'm currently going back and forth between #2 and #3. What do you think ?

     I'd also suggest #1 or #2.  #3 feels like another anti-Fatigue/game time extender card, ala Archbishop Benedictus, and he rarely saw much play. 

    For #1 I'd go with the Cost-reduction suggestion.

    For #2 I think you'd want to drop the cost to (3) or so.  Keep in mind that you'd be spending the (5) mana to discover the other reward and then usually an additional (5) to actually play the final reward.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion

    Ravennos

    Looks pretty good overall. The C'Thun parts and the Bounce cards especially look great. Light of Tomorrow is really cool.

    With Fist of the Heavens, it's spelled "lose 1 Durability."  I also might be missing something because I'm not sure why it has that decaying Durability bit in the first place.  I understand the doubling can be powerful, but the class doesn't have any Durability buffing so it would seem cleaner to just be a 1 Durability weapon, rather than a 2 Durability weapon you can only use one time.

    @Klipce

    Wanna start by saying that I really like the effect of the Quest Spell.  I've had a draft Rogue Quest with "Draw your deck's last card" as the trigger condition, but I could never think of a good reward.  You nailed a cool and flavorful one.

    That being said, I have the same critique of this that I had of the Nymph's potential Start of Game effects: This is a build around card, but the class cards don't have a lot of tools to help actually build around it.  In this case, in order to get the best payoff from this you'd want a deck with both Discover-enablers, and also one that draws a lot of cards so that you actually get to the Fatigue phase.  However, there's only a few Discover cards between the Pioneer and Un'Goro sets (and one of those is a conditional Discover), and the main card drawing is Foretelling. I suppose Zandalari Explosion also helps to thin out the deck (and this IS the expansion with Hemet, Jungle Hunter), but suffice to say that the amount of games where you'll both be able to finish the Quest and cast the reward and enjoy the benefits of the reward would probably be in the minority (just like in the normal game the odds of actually hitting Fatigue are in the minority, and the odds of drawing Fatigue 10 times even smaller than that).

    But, after thinking over my Gnarlroot comments, I realize I'm probably being too precious and holistic with my thoughts.  For the purposes of the competition having cool and flashy ideas may be more helpful than whether the rest of the hypothetical set could be useful in a deck.  As I said at the start, in a vacuum its a great and flavorful Quest and reward, and I'm sure people would appreciate it.

    @McF4rtson

    Very cool overall, and I like the time flavoring. Any particular reason The Transient Knife only affects Kunais and not a general "your weapons"?

    Blacktalon Agent is a bit of a headscratcher, as I have some of the same questions as Mvon. It feels like a card pushing you to have one-of and then duplicate, since the Reprise effect is a bit of a downside.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion

    Elderspring and Jadebark are both solid.  I think Springbloom's Bloom effect might be a little overpowered now, since it gets you a Sleepy Dragon for (6) if you have the right hand size.  If you're operating under a "if you hit the Bloom you get a (1) cost effect bump" then maybe change it to gaining +4 Health, which would make it a 4/10 Taunt for (6) and put it in line with Hungry Ettin.

    As to the legendary minion, first, gonna say that we've definitely been drinking from the same inspiration pool since this was going to be my Legendary Boomsday scientist:

     While I obviously think the start of game effects are great design, I also think it's something you'd need to seed and support more throughout the class cards.  As is, of the minions and weapons in your class only Amethyst Staff cares about how much Spell Damage you have (as opposed to the various cards that care if you have a Spell Damage minion, which your hero having it wouldn't help), and only Sharpetal Dagger, Living Rose, and Regal Rosebeast add spells to your hand (and the first two are more Razorpetals). I understand the Baku connection would push this to a very "ALL the Razorpetals" style of deck, but contrast with the various minion generating spells that Hunter and Mage get in return for running no minions.

    Of the other options, I like the Shudderwock-alike (although you'd want to make sure that Riverbound Cleaver is changed to just "give this" instead of "give this weapon" so it makes sense for Gnarlroot) since as you mention it can fit into any style of Bloom deck.  #1 does have the benefit of being sneakily and flavorfully splashy, which is always a good aspect of class legendaries.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion
    Quote from Anatomy_of_Time >>
    Quote from SideItem>>

    (Text)

     Hey SideItem!

    I think your card is a very good addition to Klipce's set and actually I was a bit surprised not to see something similar in his set.
    BTW if you can spare the few minutes needed to remake the card, you can find the option to change color scheme on Hearthcards by choosing the Witch Doctor. You'll then find two buttons near the mana crystal on top of the card; by clicking one of them you can change from one color scheme to another (works for a bunch of other custom classes as well!)

     

    Huh, you learn something new every day! Thanks!

     

     

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion

    Ok, for the personal challenge I'll say that the Quest reward should be a Spell. The Primalist Un'goro set is a little minion heavy (something that I, uhhh, didn't really help alleviate) and based on the actual game the Quest spell rewards tended to be more esoteric and fun.

    Here's my take on the rare card slot:

    First, apologies on the color scheme.  I brute forced through the Hearthcards options to figure out the flair was the Witch Doctor option, but not sure how to make it purple rather than blue.

    As for the card itself, it's a mix between Crackling Razormaw and Lightfused Stegodon. Originally thought I could push the stats to 3/4 based on Gentle Megasaur's precedent that Adapting a whole specific tribe is less than a (1) mana effect, but since this essentially gives, you at the very least, an Adaptation on a stick with the potential to become an Evolving Spores with some board setup I went more conservative. 

    As for your actual cards:

    Roaring Devilsaur, Flame Lasher, and Snatch are great designs. Shinyfin Pearlfinder should be a 2/2, you only get to keep base stats and Discover if there's another condition, ala Dendrologist. I'm also not keen on using rarity as a category, but that's more of a personal taste thing.

    Giving a minion "can't attack" is one of those fan creation things that has no consensus on how much it should cost.  I think (5) is too much. When I made a non-damage/non-destroy class I made heavy use of attack limiting and I put the effect at (2). My reasoning was that there were numerous (2) cost spells that could (conditionally) just destroy a minion, so locking it down and thus conditionally neutralizing it as a threat instead of fully removing it) should cost the same.  With some distance I think that's a bit too aggressive, so I'd suggest (3). I'd solicit other suggestions though.

    Swift Mount feels overcosted. It requires a board to already be in place, and a board that just came into being since Rush is pointless on the second turn a minion's in play.

    I think Tortolla could be "Gain +1/+1 for each tribe among your minions" so it counts itself.  A 6/6 Taunt for (6) isn't game breaking on an empty board.

    @Anatomy_of_Time

    Really like Twisted Grovekeeper and Swamp Creeper (fun twist on Vilespine Slayer). Think Portable Drought has a minor typo, since I assume it's meant to give your minionS +1/+1.

    Springbloom Herald having both a Bloom and "dragon in hand" hurdle feels a bit too much.  A 5/10 Taunt is a hair above a vanilla cost (7) based on Furious Ettin, and "dragon in hand" requirements already let a minion get an additional mana worth of value.  I'd say you'd be fine choosing either the Bloom or dragon requirement, rather than both.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Final Phase, Discussion

    Heh I had the same thought about Un’Goro, although I mostly figured it’d be an easy decision for me (since I just got to lean back and tell you to make a Legendary Quest you were already making).

    I’ve got an idea for my Primalist rare already but I’ll wait to see what the rest of the set looks like in case it’s an idea you already have covered. 

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Voting

    Congrats everyone, looking forward to the finale!

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Discussion
    Quote from McF4rtson >>

    I've locked the thread and will posting the voting thread tomorrow morning.

     Did we ever find out the keyword you thought would have a rough time with the challenge?  That was a dangling plot thread this phase haha.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Discussion

    @MvonTzeskagrad

    These look good, great job!

    Book Worm can be a 3/2 or 2/3.  Arcane Flakmage shows that "When you play a Secret" effects don't require a stat reduction, especially for 3 mana secrets.  I get that there's a potential to snowball and fill the board if you manage to play two or more secrets in a turn (1 Book Worm becoming 2 becoming 4), but that either requires an 8 mana three card combo to get two secrets and 4 minions, or a series of lucky turns/cot reductions.

    Heroic Sidekick should be like Magic Carpet and refer to '0-Cost' rather than 'spend (0)'.  The 0-Cost wording would still trigger on minions which had their cost reduced, and might make for cleaner wording/less lines.

    Light Reading you may want to copy the Combo text from Headcrack, although I guess functionally end of turn is equal to start of next turn.

    Just wanted to say I like Netherlight Scrollkeeper as a simple but class specific card and the reworked Climax.

    @whatTheHeck

    I agree with the suggestion to reword the "if you got profit" effects.  My main hangup is that Profit the keyword does nothing on the turn you use it, but gives you more mana later.  So does "If you got profit last turn" mean that you played a Profit card last turn, or does it mean that you played a Profit card two turns ago and got extra mana (the lower case profit) last turn?  If the intention is the former, then a simple change would be "If you played a Profit card last turn."

    Capital Injection is a good card, although from looking back at your Basic/Part 1 I think you only have two cards with end of turn effects. 

    Coatless Manipulator is too cheap. Its an undercosted 8/8 with essentially two upsides, since only the most aggro of decks (or a Bloom (0) focused Nymph) want to surprise draw 8 cards. Pretty sure there are Wild meme Warlocks giving opponents Octosari with Treachery to force them to overdraw, and Coatless Manipulator doesn't even make you jump through any hoops on top of giving you a giant body.  Draw 3, maybe Draw 4, for the opponent would be an actual downside. Or maybe giving the opponent extra mana?

    Speculate and Trade Prince Maldy are both great.  

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Discussion
    Quote from Anatomy_of_Time >>

     

    The reason I have a ton of relevant art for the cards I'm making is because I've looked for it before actually making the Nymph. I absolutely did not want to find myself in the situation where I had to give up on a card idea because I didn't have the card art for it. So, before starting, I looked up a bunch of stuff on ArtStation and MTG Art based on the ideas I had for some classes and in the end made the one I had the most art for.

     

     Haha I think this is about the exact opposite of my process! I'll spend a bunch of time getting my card text right, then spend about 3x that amount trying to cram the square peg of mechanics into the round hole of whatever art I can cobble together. Google images 'similar images' feature gets a workout from me.

    Quote from Klipce >>

    Okay so I made a few changes based on feedback. Twisted Bargain felt wierd from the get go nd I managed to find a better idea so here goes :

    >>>

    >>>

    Previous versions :    

       

     Raven's Eye I pushed is a more token direction, making it similar to Duskbat.

    Primordial Wind went through so many iterations... I'm not sure which version is the most flavorful and interesting. I like the last one but I'm not sure.

    Foretelling I like both versions and I don't know which one is best. The first really encourages to meet the requirement but can be kinda dead, which led me to the second version but then I fear it's a bit too strong without meeting the requirement.

    Identity Crisis is my way to tackle this week's challenge. It's removal with the damage and the change of tribe that can be exploited with something like Hungry Crab but also a way to give one of your minions all tribes and power-up Channel effects. The name is a bit on-the-nose so I might change it to "Amalgam Bolt" or something.

     Agree with the others, you nailed Identity Crisis in one.

    Foretelling should be draw 3 with the potential for an extra card. As mentioned previously, "Draw 3" is worth about 4.5 mana, "Draw 4" is worth about 6. Foretelling drawing 3 on its own means its not ideal, but still playable if you topdeck it. Then if you work to get the conditions right you get a bonus upside. If the baseline is draw 1 then it becomes essentially a dead card unless you can assemble the right board, which is more frustrating.

    Primordial Wind might have been one tweak too far.  I get you're trying to push Channel farther, but by tying this to having a board full of the same tribe it either becomes a dead card or a heavy win-more card. The 6-Cost "Deal 1 damage thrice" version is balanced and simple.  If you want to stick with the Channel version, I'd suggest a slight wording tweak.  When a spell 'gives' a minion something it means it becomes part of the minion's text, so saying you're giving a minion "deal 1 damage to all enemies" feels weird since there's no trigger. 

    I'd suggest "Channel: Give a minion Windfury, then deal 1 damage to all enemies."  That separates it out into giving the minion (and all others with the same tribe) Windfury, and then separately dealing 1 damage to all enemies (once for that minion, then repeating again for all others with the same tribe).

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Submission

                                             

    JOURNEYMAN SET - PART II SHOWCASE

    JOURNEYMAN SET - PART II

     Engineer Basic Set

    Mech Mook tokens

     Journeyman Set - Part I

    Wish Spell

     Thanks again to everyone, and good luck to all other participants.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Three, Discussion

    Ok, I already laid out my 20 card Journeyman set in the last discussion thread, here's where I'll try to nail down my showcase and then my challenge card.

    Showcase wise I'm thinking these three:

    Fun With Portals has been changed from its earlier "Draw 1 card (improved by Spell Damage)" version to be much more tied to needing a Spell Damage source to be viable.  Sparklash I just like the design, and Octavian is the remaining legendary.

    The remaining set of options:

    Of these potential showcases, my leading alternates are Nether Grenade, Target Lock, and Omega Surge.  Nether Grenade is the weakest alternate because Sparklash gets at the same (to my mind) neat 'Deal 0 Damage' angle while also supplying the Spell Damage underpinning.  Target Lock I like, but I recognize the way I've costed it (1 with a 5 mana surcharge instead of 6 with a 5 mana discount) is janky, although I think my version works within the code of the game.  Omega Surge is just a lot of nice big easy numbers, which might be enough for a showcase now that I think about it.

    For my challenge, I'm pre-retiring the original Dual Sheller, which was just Arcanite Reaper with Surge. Tinkertown Thug already satisfies the 'vanilla with Surge' aspect of the set, and I don't have anything already made that fits the challenge.

    Here's the kind of stuff I'm thinking so far, welcome any feedback:

    Since it's replacing a Common card I'm trying to make the tie-in effect simple.  Since Surge is about spreading the damage around to enemies, the easiest to grasp tie-in would be something that pings off multiple enemies being damaged (i.e. you hit one minion with Surge and the excess splashed onto another enemy minion).

    Tinker Trainee and Dual Sheller A are both intended to be triggered after one Surge hit.  Adding Vent spells to the hand seems on the simpler end of things while still being useful.  Tinker Rocker is intended to be the class's version of the 1/3 with Attack pumping; I made it until end of turn because it'd definitely get out of hand faster than Mana Wyrm if  it kept the pump. Dual Sheller B is a similar concept Attack increase.

    @Klipce

    I generally agree with Anatomy_of_Time's thoughts, although if Inquisitive Youngling just gives a 1/1 copy of the card in your hand, rather than summoning a 1/1 copy on the board, you're fine. Agree with McF4rtson that the simplest keyword synergy for your challenge card will be something like a Nightmare Amalgam or something that Amalgam-izes a minion so that all Channel and tribe effects apply.

    @Anatomy_of_Time

    Generally looks good, you really explored the (improved by Spell Damage) space well.  Specific thoughts:

    Jadebark Dragon: The "Your next spell costs (0)" mechanic is so variably costed, but I think a specific hand size is about right.

    Thalia: This is tricky, because the cost is right assuming ideal conditions (plenty of spells played throughout the game with the right hand size) but it's hard to know at a glance how easy those idealconditions are.  Although the spells aspect is presumably easiest to take care of with just Razorpetals, this is a lot like the other legendary where it also requires you to potentially hoard petals while waiting for the right time to strike. Since the drawing ability for the class isn't the best petals will probably end up being the main way to work around Bloom.  Outside of the ideal scenario it's way overcosted, so once you draw it you end up working to make sure its not a dead card. I'd suggest a tweak so that it has a minor effect on its own with a more powerful Bloom effect if you can get everything to line up, but that could get wordy.

    Riverbound Cleaver: So my first thought is that this is Fatecleaver outside of its unique Arena-exclusive setting, and I don't think one more mana is enough to justify two copies being added to a deck.  This essentially gives the potential for four Flik Skyshivs each game! Maybe if you limit it to all other copies currently in play? 

    @Artimex723

    It sounds like you'll be reworking some of the other cards, but with regards to Tenris, what about the other Classic class legendaries would you consider weak?  In general, your Classic legendary should be something thematic with your class that either functions as a win condition on its own (or can support the win condition for the deck), or at least needs to be dealt with immediately.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Voting

    Hmm, why eliminate anyone for this round? That is, why not just let the current 11 roll through and then add up the cumulative scores for the Initiate set to determine the final 4?

    I get that initially the "Eliminate five each round until you get to four finalists" was clean and symmetrical, but with the phase two non-participants self reducing the number of contestants anyway, at this point I don't think the difference between 10 and 11 contestants in the third phase is too much cognitive load to handle.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Voting
    Quote from McF4rtson >>

    @Artimex723 Watch out. Your original upgraded Hero Power token was a gold card. That's against the rules. I had to make a new version of it for you.

    As for the cut-off, the bottom two scoring entries will be eliminated. The original number was 5, but there were 3 contestants who did not re-enter.

    F

    Thanks for adding in a full image version of the Wish card, kept meaning to go back and add that to my post (instead of just the link to the card name) but then got wrapped up in Last of Us 2.

     Just a note that SoupCake's token spoiler is missing the 1/1, 2/2, and 3/3 Familiar tokens generated by the Hero Power.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on Custom Class Competition #6: Phase Two, Discussion
    Quote from MvonTzeskagrad >>

    Taking your comments into consideration... how about these for the Adept set?

     The changes look good.  Just a heads up, and it might just be my computer, but looks like your post formatting got janked up, it's missing the Hero portrait and standard Hero Power.  I know I had to spend about fifteen minutes unborking my initial post attempt since the forum ate all of my line breaks.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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