Hearthpwn

Druidstone coming to Classic mode, old Force of Nature that gives 3 treants with charge, old Wild Growt and FOR FUCK SAKE old Innervate.

Also Miracle Rogue, Control Warrior, Hand Warlock, Freeze Mage and Face Hunter are good decks.

Paladin, Priest and Shaman are lower tier classes.

Why are people posting so much this combo? unless there is something I am not seeing, you can't target enemy inmune minions, so you can't cast hysteria on an enemy inmune Neferset Thrasher

Can you? I know that you can give and inmune minion to your enemy with Treachery, but can you then target Hysteria on and enemy inmune minion?

Being one that was in favor of changing the inmune mechanic so no player can target it, I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that the way the game is coded is that attacking with a minion also count as targeting it. Since you are allowed to attack with stealthed and inmune minions (or your hero) this would be in line with the coding, but if you change inmune so no player can target it, you wouldn't be able to attack with the minion since you are "clicking" on it, and could also cause some wierd bugs with those weapons that give you inmune while attacking.

One could argue that the "shroud" mechanic is a counter to my logic, but shroud says clearly "spells and hero powers", therefore it does allow to click on it, and by extension, attack with it if it's a friendly minion or attack it if it's an enemy minion. Inmune on the other hand, seems to completly block enemy click since you can't attack it either.

The only friendly minions you are not allowed to click on it are dormant minions, which would be the one true inmune mechanic.

The solution would be to have attacking coded as a seperate type of "targeting"', but that is not something you do in one week considering you are changing the backbone of the game, and could also cause a hell of a lot of bugs (that is how coding works)

Has people forgotten that we were promised a new game mode? Was it cancelled, are there any news about it?

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly of how it works, but the wording makes it sound extremly overpowered. Stay with me...

So of course control decks may use this to delay combo decks, which is already good enough to find place in some decks. But "set each player to 5 mana crystal" sounds like 5 full mana crystal (that is, not empty). So an aggro deck could use this at turn 10, using a 4-mana minion, then this minion, then having 5 more mana, and your opponent would only have 5 mana to answer a 15-mana worth board.

I hope this is not the case, because it would become a universal card that would be slammed into every deck, and I'm hopping someone proves me wrong.

I see a lot of confused comments about how this work with fatigue... and actually someone who got it right was getting downvoted.

I know "cast when drawn" includes draw a card after the spell resolves.... HOWEVER! this card says: "AFTER YOU DRAW, shuffle two copies...".

So if you have no cards left in your deck but this, it won't be an instant win. You would take 3 damage because of the spell, then 1 for fatigue, then you shuffle two copies, and the chain ends, you continue your turn as normal.

Best regards.

I am confused... do I have to drop the cheer on a live global game? Or can I drop a cheer on a random playhearthstone video? Can it even be a VOD?

Recently I posted a thread about why combo decks are fine as an archetype, however I did stated that it wasn't hopeless because there were tools to disrupted them, mosty Dirty Rat. But that card is rotating out, so what to we have left? It is to be proven whether Exodia Mage will still be competetive, but there is still a variation in standard without the quest (with Leyline Manipulator), so my question is how to you stop them other than just rush them down. You could try using Nerubian Unraveler, but that is so akward compered to Loatheb, Dirty Rat or Deathlord. Also, cards like Nerubian Unraveler only stop spell oriented combo decks (like Exodia Mage I know), but it doesn't stop minion-based combo like C'Thun Druid, in case a new similar standard deck comes to life.

Or maybe should Dirty Rat be introduced to some kind of perma-standard? Since it's not really meta-definding, but also useful in niche decks.

I couldn't desagree more, by your rules, control decks also feel bad, since they don't go for tempo or board control the first 5-6 turns.

Then you talk about Hearhstone like it is mandatory to play around tempo and board presence (because Exodia Mage do fight to control enemy board, they just don't play minions). There is nothing wrong with playing unconventionally.

And finally, "you're opponent wasn't beating you..." is so subjecitve as when people say "feels like im loosing/winning". I know that if i pushed 20 damage in the first 4 turns against an Exodia Mage, I'm winning. Again, just because your opponent isn't playing by your rules (for his own board), doesn't mean he isn't beating you.

Most of what you say is why Rush will be "fun" rather than "strong", here's my main reason why rush cards so far aren't good enough, the idea of charge is that it allows you to push face damage, or regain tempo by killing a minion. However rush cards so far have so little health, that they fail even in the second point, unless you are trading a 1-attack minion with your 4/2 rush, So mostly they are equivalent to a spell that would say "deal X damage". Argent Commander for example, was used mostly against minions rather than face, but that was because it has Divine Shield, so it would stick to the board and give you tempo advantage. Without divine shield, it would be crap.

So when do I see rush minions useful, when you can trade a high-cost minion with your low-cost minion that has more attack than health, but that is sooooo specific I only see decks maybe runing 1 or 2 rush minions, but not a rush centric deck

So first, I decided to make this thread because I have read way to many times that people hate any combo deck, how annoying is to play against it, and how unhealthy is for the meta, yada yada yada. The most clear example for many is Exodia Mage, but there are others like C'Thun / Malygos Druid in wild, OTK Paladn with its Death Knight, OTK Priest with Corrupted Healbot or even the recent Dragon Combo Priest, and other less competetive decks. However I do admit that Exodia Mage has one problem for the meta, but I will touch that later.

So here I go with the main reasons why people have to accept combo decks:

1) Lest start with the fact that combo decks will exist no matter what, especially as Blizzard add more cards to the game. Some card will interact with this other card from years ago to have a powerful effect. You can't stop that, unless of course you only design vanilla cards like Chillwind Yeti.

2) Part of the fun is finding those cool interactions and combination of cards/effects .

3) Combo decks keep in check control decks. You may not like this, but just becuase you like control decks, doesn't mean it must be the only viable archetype. Some people may like playing aggro and tempo oriented decks and you must accept it. Hearthstone must have options for all players. If control get extremly powerful (like Cubelock), it is only natural that decks surge up where they take advantage of their slow pace strategy, If you are not going to do anything the first 6 turns, be my guest then.

4) Very related to n°3, some strategy just have better late game, just becuase your decks fits inside the "control" archetype, doesn't mean you HAVE to win late game, and here is where many people cry. Old school control warrior players where sitting confortable when they were the best late game deck, then Jade Druid came and they started whinning, then Exodia Mage came and THEY started crying. Hypocrisy

5) All decks have their weakness, combo decks feed from the pasive nature of control decks, but are weak to aggresive push. Even if you are a control deck, change your playstyle for that specific macthup and  rush them down. Instead of using a weapon for board clear, use to go face, but that doesn't mean you have to overextend, which is the same for any other deck that has AOE, whether it is Big Spell or Mage, you always have to play around board clear.

6) Use tools to stall, Blizzard has introduced cards that can disrupt combo decks without killing them, Using Dirty Rat to pull a Sorcerer's Apprentice will not destroy Exodia Mage, since they can create a copy with Simulacrum, but that means another turn to setup the combo. Loatheb also guarantees an extra turn against all decks listed above except C'Thun Druid. But the point is, sometimes all you need is one extra turn and that is enough to deafeat them.

7) This last point is subjective. For me a combo deck is fine when it either: Requires multiple steps to execute, requires a lot af cards combined together, requieres a lot of mana. Exodia Mage has all of them, first you must complete your quest, which already means you need specific cards, a lot of mana and turns, then you must have two Sorcerer's Apprentice, two Molten Reflection and Archmage Antonidas (or hit Sorcerer's Apprentice with Simulacrum which also requires setup).
 Other decks require a tick from Emperor Thaurissan on specific cards, or specific minions to die first.

However there is one problem with Exodia Mage, and that is of course Ice Block, and Blizzard knows it that they sent it to the Hall of Fame. What is annoying is that even if you play around the weakness of Exodia Mage, rushing them down, they can still stall now matter how much damage you got beacuse of Ice Block. There is very little counter play to that secret unless you have an Eater of Secrets which hurts so much your other matches. It covers so well the weakness of the combo deck much like Spreading Plague did for druid players (poor removals so they were vulnerable to big boards).

And that is my thread of why it is OK for combo decks to exist as an archetype in hearthstone. I hope you don't just ignore my arguments and flame the crap out of me.

It means that since JtU was released I mainly rank with Exodia Mage and consistenly make it to rank 3 (from 15 to avoid aggro decks) and even though it is not legend I don't grind hundreds of games to make it

As a main Exodia Mage player I'm going to tell you my opinion of this deck.

I still preffer Exodia Mage but it has pros and cons. The combo of this deck (giant mage) is easier to pull off, you only need 3 cards which gives you more space for removal like Dragon's Fury and in some way you have more cards to complete the quest like double Babbling Book and [card]Ghastly Conjurer[/card].

However you have a serious problem against warlocks and control driuds, the first one beacuse of Voidlord taunts which will block your giants, and the second because they are the new control warrior with tons of armor that no matter Alexstrasza you would need 4 copies of giants to have a chance (and driuds also have taunts).

Finally I recomend removing  [card]Skulking Geist[/card] since you don't care about destroying your opponet cards, your objective is to pull your own combo, instead you could add more card draw of like the guide says a Simulacrum

Also I want to point out the inconsistency of Dragon's Fury since you have a wide range of spell cost (from 2 to 6).

I complety agree with you. Because of that I have also thought that an easy way to solve this problem and future desing problems is to change completly how charge works to: "can attack minions the first turn". Yes people will hate it at first, but I think it would be healthy for the game in the long run. Also it simplifies other cards with this mechanic.

Edit: And change specific cards to allow attaking heroes the first turn like Leroy Jenkings, either as a passive ability, or by battlecry.