Hearthpwn

Quote from SirJohn13 >>

DoL at 4 mana seems fair. Being played later means that (a) it transforms fewer spells and (b) you have to spend your turn 4 doing nothing. If you guys can't develop enough tempo to beat a deck that passes on t4 then the problem is the deck you are playing and not DoL

 So the problem is with you if you play warlock, priest and warrior?

A big secret of Hearthstone is that the ENTIRE druid class is actually lunacy mage. It's just not as flashy nor as powerful. It is though a coin flip at the start of the game as to whether you win or not. It has always been the case and always will be.

What do you think this celestial garbage is? It's hot meme garbage. But they love it. The devs love that stuff. It is a high roll deck so you work out if you win or lose in the first few turns. The same with guardian druid.

Edit: Also people who say lunacy is exactly the same are basically right. It wasn't nerfed much at all. It was only nerfed against aggro, which beat it anyway. The deck beats all the same decks it was beating before (so everything except aggro, and maybe now not libram paladin since that got nerfed).

Mage nerf did help since aggro can beat it easier now (but it was winning before). No minion mage though without DoL was always going to be an unbelievably strong deck. Just now, they don't need to run double flamestrike and other questionable cards. The deck without DoL has a host of busted cards like pot of greed (draw 2 for 0 mana at worse but gain mana sometimes), font of power, apexis, and ring toss. Apexis got buffed because it now doesn't pull jandice which is a bad 2/1 draw.

Libram paladin did get nerfed quite significantly. Secret paladin is still very strong and I am seeing a lot of paladins. If paladin didn't exist and wasn't strong though, aggro would run over everyone. Rogue can't beat aggro anymore (you may as well concede unless you tech in ooze). Mage can't. Only paladin can.

Warlock pushes priest completely out of the meta since it's under 5% chance for priest to win (it can go as high as about 15% if priest goes more minion based, and perhaps even 20% if they run shadowform AND alex). Priest is good vs aggro, assuming they tech in ooze. Warlock can't beat aggro. I don't even play paladin or mage, I mostly play rogue but I also understand if paladin isn't strong, we would all get run over by aggro because the mage nerf makes it exceptionally weak to aggro.

Quote from FloatingMana_HS >>

Just break my heart everyone 💔.  Lmao Priest will rise (don't quote me on that). 

 It gave me another idea I tried for a few games. It could work. It's mill priest. You run mukla, the 4 drop 5/5 which discovers a card and makes your opponent draw it too, the 2 drop 2/3 that draws a card for both players and the banana dudes. You can mill people. You don't really have a win condition though.

Priest is horrible on ladder and will be for the next two years. It is not viable to play a deck where you have to concede at least 10% or possibly more of your games. The only reason it's viable on high legend is less warlocks. The deck is basically worthless on ladder and can't win. I have tried and tried and gotten great win rates vs meta decks, but having to concede 20% of games is not viable. I have had to concede 5 games against warlocks within 10 games yesterday. Despite winning over 60% vs other decks, I drop from D1 to D5 trying to play priest since of all the warlocks.

You aren't allowed to play priest in this meta and won't be allowed to until they remove jarraxus from the core set, which is at least two years but possibly it stays as it is.

But since I am on D5 and won't bother hitting legend this month until after the nerfs, I may as well try this hot garbage lol.

No minion mage will still be a very strong deck (possibly without deck of lunancy and even going back to c'thun win condition). Tier 1 or 2 still. However, it will now get crushed by aggro more since they have to do a 4 mana do nothing spell. I agree though, it's basically the same deck.

Libram paladin got nerfed hard due to the pen flinger nerf. The aggro paladin deck though is still going to be probably the best deck in the game. Rogue will still be strong, but may need to consider getting out of watch towers, especially with DoL nerfed. It also means you probably can't keep jandice in your opening hand now, at least not on the coin. If you are on the coin though, it's probably fine.

I would like to think control priest is more viable now, but it probably won't be. The nerfs help, but those same nerfs make warlock more palatable to play. The introduction of aggressive decks in the meta might assist but I don't know how aggressive decks are going to go when secret paladin is still obscenely strong.

I would like to see a world where beast hunter is viable (running tavish and summoning things from your deck in a mid range strategy, putting out waves of waves of threats through a more skill based and not just curvestone deck manipulation). Not sure if that will be the case. Maybe it is after the libram paladin nerf. The question is, why not just run face hunter? A very good question, unfortunately!

Jarraxus beats every control deck and as long as it remains in core, warlock will always win control vs control. It's not to do with tickatus. If it was just tickatus, even priest could beat warlock a decent amount of the time. Maybe not tonnes, but at least more than 5% of the time. The reason is that they have the removal and can slam down big dragons and go face. Warlock actually doesn't put up many threats. What it does do is summon a 6/6 demon every turn though and it wins in fatigue due to tickatus as well.

Warrior is just always going to be weak vs jarraxus. The only deck that may have been able to keep up which is sort of control (but arguably not really) was quest warrior, but that went to wild. Summoning two 4/4s a turn is also pretty good. Warlock has infinite value though and the other classes do not.

Quote from slayercrohs >>

RNG is a HUGE factor. It's a card game after all. Every card draw is a RNG effect as well.

But I do agree to some extent that anyone with knowledge how the game works and experience can be a "pro" as long as you devote as much time and effort as they do.

 It's within the realm of possibility that an average player could get to grandmasters based on luck. It happened in poker when Jamie Gold won the main event. This was a $10,000 buyin tournament and he was an amateur. My god he got lucky.

Tickatus is unfair for control priest etc, since it means you have to auto concede. However, a more tempo based priest like the VS list might win vs tickatus, but you can never ever beat jarraxus (that's the true winner in control vs control).

Blizzard likes to make powerful high roll decks since some players find it fun. DoL is sort like that but is stronger than intended. There are other completely busted unfair decks too in which you cannot win against. Any druid with ramp. If they go ramp on 3 and 4 and guardian on 8, they win the game almost always.

Quote from Cromp1990 >>

Mage isn’t going anywhere after lunacy gets nerfed, they will be fine. 

 True, if they only nerf the mana cost, it probably makes little difference. Everyone will still play it and it will still be on time for a level 7 nagrand slam.

People will be complaining about no minion mage again after a DoL nerf since when optimised for without DoL, no minion mage is pretty strong. It has some hell broken cards in there that represent way too much power for the mana cost. These are:

1. Apexis Blast. This card is arguably as strong or stronger than jandice. Removing a minion and developing a 5 drop in this pool of 5 drops is insane. Some situations Apexis is better, some situations Jandice is better.

2. Ring toss. This card is easily corrupted and gives you any specific secret about 80% of the time (so close to guaranteed counter spell. Turn 9 apexis + ring toss is often game winning).

3. Font of power. This is a 1 mana at worse, but often 0 mana, draw three. The mage minions it gives you are usually all insane because bad stuff like naga sea witch has been removed from the pool.

4. Devolving missiles - just extremely cheap hex, usually costing nothing.

5. Last but not least, our favourite GAIN 2 mana, draw 2 cards (ok ok sometimes it's just 0 mana draw 2 instead).

All of these factors will mean mage will definitely be viable. Hero power mage looks legit too.

You can't even play it...

But tickatus warlock loses to aggro, which can see play if paladin is out of the picture.

50% of the player base playing spell mage is human nature. People just want to win and they don't care about anyone else. A lot of mages when they do busted things that no deck could win against often even emote you to taunt you. They often genuinely think they are better than you. It's human nature.

Shame that standard is unplayable for another week.

You don't. You just lose like everyone else. The game is fundamentally broken and will be for another week. You may play mage or paladin. You can't play anything else.