Hearthpwn

Yea it doesn't seem to make sense that to climb to legend you're playing against people of equal skill because then doesn't that mean people who tank their MMR at diamond 5 then can get to legend playing noobs?

When you are legend you get to see the ranks of the people you're playing against.

I don't know how you're not just dead on turn 5 vs DH? The deck does nothing for the first 5 turns and by then it's dead? Even if you draw something with dark portal to play on turn 5 if its not a taunt you just lose the game (and even if it is a taunt you might still lose since DH ignores taunts).

to people who think DH is fine, why do I have under 10hp by turn 4? face hunter is broken too but at least I live until turn 7 or 8. I feel like this game is balanced around heroes having 40hp and not 30.

Quote from Trollmus >>

Having played tons of DH, I can definitely tell you that SKill of Gul'dan should be nerfed more. 6 mana draw 3 reduce 3 is still incredibly broken, and allows DH to come back from a lost game, time and time again with refill and refuel of the hand. Shouldnt be possible for an aggro class like that.

Altruis also needs to not hit face, or be 5 mana. 

Priestess of fury needs nerfs obviously, and getting her out on turn 5 with felscreamer is just straight up broken, and happens in alot of matches.

8 or even 9 mana, or reduce the amount of damage she deals by like 4 or 5

 

 Yea altruis hitting face is dumb since that's exactly why they nerfed miracle rogue to the ground. I mean it did so much face damage while destroying your whole board lol. My problem with DH though is that I can be at 10hp by turn 4 and that's even when I remove a lot of their stuff. They just have too much stuff that goes face. Glaivebound Adept should only hit minions for 4. Metamorphisis should be 6 mana not 5 or if 5 mana should not be able to go face. The hero power should be 2 mana to do 2 attack not 1 mana to do 1 attack. Priestess should cost 8 mana and not be able to attack (like a non-legendary ragnaros the firelord). A tempo deck shouldn't be able to kill you by turn 5. Tempo rogue at least usually lets you get to 10 mana so you can play your cards and have a shot at it.

I mean to be fair to DH though it's not the only broken thing. Rogue getting 7 zero mana cards is pretty insane. Priest is stupid too.

Rogue is strong but it feels fair in some ways because you can just kill them before a lot of their stuff comes online. They are REALLY weak to a lot of decks, namely face hunter, aggro decks and bomb warrior. Some decks can achieve super high win rates vs rogue. Decks like DH which are too strong or decks like priest which are unfair/unfun and literally unbeatable for some decks are pretty lame though (for example, egg warrior vs rez priest is probably 90% win rate for the priest if the priest makes no mistakes). Rogue does unfair things but there is clear counterplay. The fact that it does unfair things is the only reason it can beat priest because priest is pretty broken too. Due to stunner and mirror you now arn't allowed to play big minions with deathrattles anymore.

Quote from hoernsen >>

Quote from sPacEtiMe19 >>

Quote from Ravza >>

Of course it's inevitable. I just had a DH take me down to 14hp by turn 3. I then gained about 40 armour the following couple of turns and removing every threat from the board every turn and I was dead on turn 9. It starts off as an aggro deck which never stops with its card draw that never runs out. It's completely broken. He didn't even have priestess (I don't think he runs it since it's too slow/6 damage isn't enough). People who say DH is fine might be running into bad lists or bad players. I have seen awful DH players who achieve nothing with the deck.

 

 

 Que up any list of DH you like and play against egg warrior or priest and tell me how often you win. 

People always counter argue this kind of statement with something along the lines of: “those decks only exist because of the prelevance of DH and something needs to keep them in check.” 

What I want to ask these people is to tell me a time in recent history where this exact same scenario hasn’t existed? When is the last time the meta hasn’t been either play the best deck, or decks that beat the best deck? 

You realize if DH gets so nerfed that it’s unplayable that something will take its place. And then what does the meta look like? The new best deck and decks that counter it. 

People seem to have this odd notion that hearthstone hasn’t been this way most of its lifetime. There are always going to be a best assortment of 30 cards. Then there will be niche decks that beat that assortment at the expense of losing to other things.

Nerfing demon hunter until it no longer makes you cry won’t make you feel any better, because the only thing that will change is what you’re complaining about. It will never stop as long as you have that mentality. 

  DH has only one real "bad" matchup with 40%, thats Egg Warrior. Besides that, it has at least 50% against every other deck. How is this balanced? Not one class in HS has ever had such a complete package. Draw, Heal, Tempo, Boardclears and so on. It has no Weakness at all and thats just BS. There were a lot of Metakings in the past, but every deck had its weakness, DH simply not.

 

here, read that https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-160/

 They can also do some tech vs egg warrior with some running the 4/3 freeze minion, acidic swamp ooze and silence. It's more like 55/45 and the thing is it's so skewed to the warrior going first (being on the coin vs DH is a massive disadvantage) and if the warrior doesn't draw skipper and armorsmith they lose the game. Additionally, now just recently DH are killing the warmaul challengers and because of that you can't cheat out wins with rampage so easily and so the match up is getting less advantageous for egg warrior than it once was as the DH players adjust.

DH is completely broken. It's not fair altruis can push so much face damage while clearing the board. It's dumb that priestess of fury is intentionally out of fireball range or the range of rush minions. The 7 health instead of 6 health is an intentional design choice which is a massive deal. It puts it out of reach too easily. Twin slice should cost 1 mana and second slice 0 mana that way they pay 1 mana for two damage. Metamorphosis should cost at least 6 mana not 5 (6 mana + 2 mana +2 mana means 10 mana for 10 damage). They need to take the card draw off cards which establish tempo as well.

Quote from sPacEtiMe19 >>

Quote from Ravza >>

Of course it's inevitable. I just had a DH take me down to 14hp by turn 3. I then gained about 40 armour the following couple of turns and removing every threat from the board every turn and I was dead on turn 9. It starts off as an aggro deck which never stops with its card draw that never runs out. It's completely broken. He didn't even have priestess (I don't think he runs it since it's too slow/6 damage isn't enough). People who say DH is fine might be running into bad lists or bad players. I have seen awful DH players who achieve nothing with the deck.

 

 

 Que up any list of DH you like and play against egg warrior or priest and tell me how often you win. 

People always counter argue this kind of statement with something along the lines of: “those decks only exist because of the prelevance of DH and something needs to keep them in check.” 

What I want to ask these people is to tell me a time in recent history where this exact same scenario hasn’t existed? When is the last time the meta hasn’t been either play the best deck, or decks that beat the best deck? 

You realize if DH gets so nerfed that it’s unplayable that something will take its place. And then what does the meta look like? The new best deck and decks that counter it. 

People seem to have this odd notion that hearthstone hasn’t been this way most of its lifetime. There are always going to be a best assortment of 30 cards. Then there will be niche decks that beat that assortment at the expense of losing to other things.

Nerfing demon hunter until it no longer makes you cry won’t make you feel any better, because the only thing that will change is what you’re complaining about. It will never stop as long as you have that mentality. 

 You need a deck that has a hard counter. Egg warrior, the only thing that could be considered a real counter isn't a true hard counter. It barely holds on. Egg warrior does pretty decently going first but you need to draw skipper and armorsmith in most situations (unless you get some god aggro draw and kill him). If you don't draw armorsmith you probably won't be winning because DH does obscene amounts of face damage (altruistic hitting face is criminal given they nerfed miracle rogue to the ground, my favourite deck).

Of course it's inevitable. I just had a DH take me down to 14hp by turn 3. I then gained about 40 armour the following couple of turns and removing every threat from the board every turn and I was dead on turn 9. It starts off as an aggro deck which never stops with its card draw that never runs out. It's completely broken. He didn't even have priestess (I don't think he runs it since it's too slow/6 damage isn't enough). People who say DH is fine might be running into bad lists or bad players. I have seen awful DH players who achieve nothing with the deck.

Control warrior is tier one right now if you run the right list. I have a list I used with a 65% win rate in legend. It has a 90% win rate vs rogue and about 60% vs DH. It also has a great matchup vs mage. It is basically an unwinnable matchup vs rez priest but that's ok since once you get out of the dumpster legend ranks you don't see many priests.

Every other control deck is dead though. Galakrond warlock sucks.

HS replay is misleading about the top decks, putting control warrior so low. It's not as low as it suggests. Any control warrior using galakrond is bad. Anything that doesn't run two skippers and two armorsmiths doesn't work.

At the top of the meta right now you get tempo DH, rogue, warrior and some mages (mage is ok, but not great). The warrior lists vary from aggressive to heavy control. Versions with korkron elite and rampage and inner rage are fun and viable and kill the DH fast. Control versions that run bombs with lots of armour gain are good too and take their fair share off DH and absolutely smash rogue (rogue doesn't stand a chance against a heavy control list that runs bombs since they can't heal).