Hearthpwn

Quote from saibur_ >>

Couldn't agree more. I remember the times when playing around your opponent's two Flamestrikes was a thing. That's the one thing they got right about Demon Hunter, no random card generation there.

 There is no RNG in DH since they just draw their whole deck and consistently kill you though lol. There is some merit in having a chance to win!

Skill box though is pretty bad. I mean everyone hates skill of guldan but at least you know what they are going to draw. The trouble with skill box is that all you know is it's coming and it's just a gamble. It's an absurd mechanic.

Quote from Tyk3 >>

I love shaman class but it feels so toothless right now. I’ve resorted to even trying Pit Crocolisk in quest shaman just to try and get some sort of win condition. In the current meta big minions just don’t cut it, and that’s all shammy has. 

 Glaivebound adept is a 5 mana 6/4 that does 4 damage. You really need to get rid of the pot crocolisk lol. If you want another win condition maybe you have to add ysera and play it after the opponent uses all their removal. Other options are just to run a copy of eye of the storm (and wait until after rogue uses flik). i mean there is al-akir and double rock biter but then you have some useless cards in a deck with no draw.

Another win condition could be playing lots of 0 mana spells with eye of the storm and kaelthas with exotic mountseller (jepetto joybuzz may help with this too).

Although probably the best shaman deck is just an evolve shaman which definitely is not toothless if they draw into the weapon and get desert hare.

Quote from SlipperyBum >>

Quote from Ravza >>

Quote from OverholtNA >>

Quote from Ravza >>

Quote from OverholtNA >>

What's everybody's beef with Witch's Brew?

 You get no tempo with it so it doesn't help you win the game. Compare this to amber watcher or libram of hope which heals you and develops your board. How do you play witch's brew vs aggressive decks to stop dying? You can't since you must develop your board.

Well I certainly wouldn't put it in a tempo deck. It's a control tool and the flexibility of the card is what makes it viable. You can send five of them to face late in a fatigue game. You can work one in instead of a totem when you have nothing to play against aggressive decks. You can weave a few in after a Hex or Hagatha's Scheme. It's a death knell for any deck trying to beat you with damage from hand. You can even use it to top off minions.

It's a solid card. The issue is more that control Shaman doesn't have a win condition right now, so it doesn't fit into an archetype.

 Healing for four though isn't enough to keep you alive. I mean you just need to look at a gala rogue deck to understand just how weak shaman is and the issue with witch's brew. Rogue doesn't even have healing (aside five armour from galakrond and maybe kronx late game for five) and yet its unbelievably strong vs many decks, including very aggressive decks. A gala rogue deck played well exerts so much pressure and tempo and it never runs out of gas. Because it is able to do this, it doesn't really need healing. This is also the case for highlander hunter and tempo DH decks. Shaman doesn't really put enough boots on the ground. The trouble with board clears is they don't help you win the game when they are expensive and hit your minions too. This is why plague is dropped in many gala priest lists. It doesn't assist in the actual winning of the game. What wins games is putting numbers on the board. Evolve shaman when it draws its weapon and the hare is very very strong (assuming it's not dead on turn 5 to a tempo DH or murloc paladin) because it puts numbers on the board. More numbers = more wins.

 I don't know man, every single time I use this my hunter opponent insta concedes. It's pretty sweet.

 Maybe face hunter but I mean legend highlander hunters who arn't in the dumpster ranks probably arn't conceding just because shaman gets a witch's brew off. That deck just plays for tempo and so it enables them to develop their board. Often what can happen is that HL hunter may have a weak turn and that enables shaman to heal up. After that though HL hunter gets a stronger turn the next turn and develops a board. You have to clear it now with hagatha or earthquake, using substantial mana. Then HL hunter just keeps coming, wave after wave maintaining tempo and dealing chip damage until you just run out of stuff (you need to deal with their initial push for lethal, often with king krush on turn 7, the next push for lethal with normal minions/dragons, the alextstraza turn, the zixor turn and sometimes depending on the deck the nagrand slam turn meanwhile staying out of lethal range which is hard since HL hunter has a very large reach with zephyrs, another lethal threat. They also get one discover a dragon where they can find a second alexstraza reasonably often, or a deathwing for one last final push in fatique). I mean sure you can win in fatigue on a control shaman but HL hunter has so many threats in the deck it's not easy to get there without dying. There is far more damage in the HL hunter deck then shaman can heal through so you have to usually kill them somehow which means obtaining tempo. You will never kill them if they have tempo unless you play some spell shaman that has a lot of reach. Therein lies the problem. Shaman runs out of stuff and has no late game threats except 2/1s with rush.

Face hunter though just loses if they don't kill you fast enough since too many taunts and healing.

Quote from OverholtNA >>

Quote from Ravza >>

Quote from OverholtNA >>

What's everybody's beef with Witch's Brew?

 You get no tempo with it so it doesn't help you win the game. Compare this to amber watcher or libram of hope which heals you and develops your board. How do you play witch's brew vs aggressive decks to stop dying? You can't since you must develop your board.

Well I certainly wouldn't put it in a tempo deck. It's a control tool and the flexibility of the card is what makes it viable. You can send five of them to face late in a fatigue game. You can work one in instead of a totem when you have nothing to play against aggressive decks. You can weave a few in after a Hex or Hagatha's Scheme. It's a death knell for any deck trying to beat you with damage from hand. You can even use it to top off minions.

It's a solid card. The issue is more that control Shaman doesn't have a win condition right now, so it doesn't fit into an archetype.

 Healing for four though isn't enough to keep you alive. I mean you just need to look at a gala rogue deck to understand just how weak shaman is and the issue with witch's brew. Rogue doesn't even have healing (aside five armour from galakrond and maybe kronx late game for five) and yet its unbelievably strong vs many decks, including very aggressive decks. A gala rogue deck played well exerts so much pressure and tempo and it never runs out of gas. Because it is able to do this, it doesn't really need healing. This is also the case for highlander hunter and tempo DH decks. Shaman doesn't really put enough boots on the ground. The trouble with board clears is they don't help you win the game when they are expensive and hit your minions too. This is why plague is dropped in many gala priest lists. It doesn't assist in the actual winning of the game. What wins games is putting numbers on the board. Evolve shaman when it draws its weapon and the hare is very very strong (assuming it's not dead on turn 5 to a tempo DH or murloc paladin) because it puts numbers on the board. More numbers = more wins.

I got a golden brightwing so that's cool. I already own brightwing so I can always break it down for another legendary (brightwing sucks anyway lol). I also got a couple of epics too.

Quote from OverholtNA >>

What's everybody's beef with Witch's Brew?

 You get no tempo with it so it doesn't help you win the game. Compare this to amber watcher or libram of hope which heals you and develops your board. How do you play witch's brew vs aggressive decks to stop dying? You can't since you must develop your board.

Every time I play DH it surprises me on how broken it is (the nerfs were kind of meaningless). I mean down to the fact that warglaives of azzinoth lets you attack again even after the weapon has been destroyed. It should be that you can attack with the weapon again, not with your hero. You get five attacks instead of four. I am just constantly surprised how much better each of their cards are than everyone elses lol.

Priest is badly designed but it's not the only non-interactive deck. The quest warlock decks running around also are boring and non-interactive. Same with druid decks. Quest warlock might be the newest cancer though. They just play through their deck until they OTK you and unless you can kill them fast they will OTK you and there isn't really anything you can do (they are running alex now in high legend so they take you down to 15 too to guarantee lethal). Aggressive decks like murloc paladin do well though. The thing is they heal so much that it's very hard to kill them. They also heal for about 4 per turn on average through nether breath and drawing the 4/6 so there is really no chance to win but you have to play a long game anyway. Just like playing vs priest. It's a very very very hard deck to play but when played by someone an expert in it, I think it could win almost every game, especially the newest version. I mean some streamers are seeing absurd win rates.

Quote from Punisher1133 >>

Hey interesting deck, can u put on your winrate, or how u gonna make the minions stick to make darkest hour ?

 

greetz

 I think he just plays rafaam's scheme into darkest hour at turn 9 (or you can play it the turn before and hope the minions stick). You get to turn 9 a bit sooner than you otherwise would because of the escaped mansabers.

If you thought it auto won before the priestess nerf, you should see how broken it is after. The priestess was just weighing down the DH from killing you on turn 5.

Everyone here auto concedes vs priest. There is about 10 threads on it. Bad game is bad.I mean I am forced to play it these days because in legend ranks what happens is I am playing vs a diamond player and if I lose I lose 200 - 400 points. If I win I get 100 - 200 points and so it becomes unpalatable to concede. Instead I just play highlander hunter so I can beat priests.

Priest might be strong because warriors will be running around still because the nerfs did not hit them one bit. The games that the warrior nerfs would impact on would be less than 1%. You can treat warrior as not having been nerfed but actually being buffed. The nerfs to DH will maybe effect 5% of games or so, if they even keep running priestess. The meta will remain unchanged save for rogue might run a stealth list and fall a bit more out of the meta.

I am not sure though why they gave a lip service nerf to warrior. If you wanted to nerf that build you would need to make rampage 2/2 instead of 3/3 or make inner rage cost 1 mana.

Quote from SirJohn13 >>

It really amazes me how much people hate playing vs Priest. A couple of days ago I put together a budget 'Silence Priest' deck based on some deck I saw here and I tried to play a couple of games on Casual just to try it. This is by the way a Tempo/Aggro deck, nothing like the standard Priest archetypes. Well I had 5 opponents in a row auto-concede before turn 1 and two of them were Priests themselves (???). So I gave up trying, at least I earned 20 gold in 2min...

 Yea, they really need to rework the whole class. I think it would be better if they focus on giving it a viable tempo build which plays minions, buffs them, heals them etc rather than making it some frustrating control deck. Galakrond priest is alright. It's not like rez priest. Rez priest and quest priest though are so unfun and frustrating to play against.

I just went 27-3 with highlander hunter in legend. It felt well deserved since I had this awful lost streak of 10 games, all of which just running into people with the nuts.

I played highlander hunter to legend. It has a bad matchup vs tempo DH but it has a good matchup vs priest. While I hate tempo DH, it's important to me to have a decent matchup vs priest since I absolutely despite playing decks where you have auto concede matchups. I like control warrior and there are some lists that do well and I went to legend with it last season, but having to concede vs every priest is dumb. In some cases I could see priest up to 4 games in a row and it was just a sure loss after 20 mins and so pointless to play. Highlander hunter has winnable matchups against everyone, even if the tempo DH matchup is a 40 - 43% matchup.

The galakrond priest though is a bit more beatable with a bomb warrior deck than other priest decks. The trouble with bomb warrior is without the lackeys the matchup vs tempo DH is very bad (although it enjoys overwhelmingly good matchups vs mage and rogue).

Paladin and shaman decks are so bad vs priest though. They just have no end game value. Even if shaman plays archivist it has no win conditions in the end game to compete with priest getting a free card from galakrond every turn. At least enrage warrior has a chance to kill the priest (and if they wanted to make the matchup better they can tech in alex to reduce the priest hp to 15 a turn before they combo them, at the expense of having a worse matchup vs tempo DH).