Hearthpwn

Quote from Tonyqracer18 >>

Quote from Ravza >>

Priest isn't that strong, you can beat it playing a meta deck like HL hunter quite consistently. It is unfun to play against though and feels unfair. This game has a lot of stuff though which shouldn't exist in their present form. Like why is nozdormu a thing. No one will ever play it since it's not viable but the thing is it's stupid from a game mechanic perspective to have a card which limits the time a player gets on their turn. The time you get should be untouchable. But they will never change it. Just like priest has been unfair and unfun for years. It will never change.

 I can see what your saying Ravza yeah i could see the way certain conceps would not be removed just because of the simple fact that they help promote the very thing they were intentionally made to do. But i completly agree sometimes i get saved from nozderamu only because of the simple fact that i was thinking a turn ahead but sometimes it does catch me off gard like it take a look off the screen which can be a game chaing mechanic. But i compleltly agree some things will never change, and all we can do is just adapt ourselves to those circumstances x(

 I mean I have won from nozdormu before because my opponents card animations took too long. You could argue you can make the plays before the animations are done BUT sometimes this is not possible. For example, if you plot twist as warlock on 10 mana with a nozdormu on board and a full hand your plot twist may not be done before your turn is over. It will keep drawing you cards during your opponent's turn. There is no time to see what you get and play accordingly. I am not saying this is a big problem. I mean the times you get nozdormu from something randomly are few and far between and you can't competitively main deck an otherwise vanilla 8/8 for 8 mana. It's just a good example of something which probably should have been fixed or removed a long time ago but never has been and probably never will.

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Quote from saibur_ >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

I continue to believe Priest is the most powerful class at the moment, but the games tend to run into 20-25 turn range all the time, so if you're trying to actually climb in a timely fashion, that may not be the best call.

 ?? what am I missing?

 I could explain it, but Zalae does it a lot better, so I'll paraphrase him . . .

In basically every healthy meta, there's at least one deck, and sometimes several, that are difficult enough to play correctly OR require a large enough amount of per game time to continually take the wins, such that the average person who chooses to netdeck it isn't getting anywhere near the potential win rate.

A simple example in the last meta (prior to shaman/paladin buffs, etc.) was Brian Kibler's Highlander Quest Shaman.  I ran into that deck several times climbing the ladder, and it was painfully obvious that the players who copied it from him had no idea what they were doing.  In fact, I'm pretty sure they didn't even know what they didn't know, which is REALLY bad for trying to seriously climb the ladder.  I think that deck showed a 40%ish win rate, and was one of the few non-totem shamen out there.

But, we can simplify this easily.  The population of all priest players averaged together into one win rate will depress the potential win rate as compared to one expert-level Priest player far worse than say the population of all Aggro Hunters vs one expert-level Aggro Hunter player.  Different decks are harder to play than others, in a nutshell.  None of which necessarily validates my opinion regarding priest power, but I do know I hit #12 legend last month with it, so there's something to it.

 My view is that aggro DH is still the best deck but when you do talk about priest being the best deck are you referring to specifically highlander priest or do you mean the non-singleton versions or both? Given that fast44, who is rank 1 legend with HL hunter, has an over 70% win rate vs priests in the top 100, it's safe to say this is an extremely unfavourable matchup for the priest. When then judging decks on a tier list, and given HL hunter's prevalence in the meta, it's difficult to accept priest is the best deck.

I also understand your point about Kibler's decks. I have been trying out his quest warrior, which should be a simple deck. The average win rate for it on hsreplay is 52%. Mine is 59% over 29 games and kibler's is well in excess of that (high 60s I think) I noticed multiple times though where I made big mistakes. I reached high legend with hunter this season and now trying other decks and with HL hunter there is decision making but what you are trying to do is just use all your mana and play threats on curve and so you don't need to plan out overly complex turns that use 4 - 6 cards etc (like enrage warrior). You just decide what to play then play it. With quest warrior there have been a number of times where I got to the end of my turn and realised there was a better order that would have netted me a better result and on some occasions I won anyway and on others I lost because of the error. Kibbler just plays his decks very well. However, when I compare priest and say HL hunter, if you accept fast44 plays his deck very well and so do other priest players like zan or eggwaffle, then it seems HL hunter is very favoured which in my opinion should place priest downwards in the meta.

Priest isn't that strong, you can beat it playing a meta deck like HL hunter quite consistently. It is unfun to play against though and feels unfair. This game has a lot of stuff though which shouldn't exist in their present form. Like why is nozdormu a thing. No one will ever play it since it's not viable but the thing is it's stupid from a game mechanic perspective to have a card which limits the time a player gets on their turn. The time you get should be untouchable. But they will never change it. Just like priest has been unfair and unfun for years. It will never change.

Quote from thazud >>

RNG has really taken over Hearthstone. I've played Hearthstone since it was released from beta and enjoyed it a lot. However, in the recent expansions I've lost my motivation but still kept on playing it because there were some fun decks here and there, and BG was a good addition to give some variety. 

But then I tried to play Legends of Runeterra (LoR), where there are some RNG elements, but not as many and as game-swingy as the ones in Hearthstone. And know I can't play Hearthstone anymore. LoR made me realize how much I hate losing games because someone discovered a Pyroblast of their Mana Cyclone which gave them a discover spell that randomly gave them Pyroblast. Or when you are in a position where you've basically won the match but the enemy got a random puzzlebox which clears your board and gives them a board instead. These situations are just not funny.

It can be fun a times but when it's a factor in the majority of the games it is too much. LoR is not perfect but it is more satisfying than the RNG-fiesta Hearthstone has become. 

 No RNG is really bad too. I don't play chess since it's pointless. I never learned as a child, the game is way too hard, and I can't ever win a game because people who have been playing for years have a near 100% chance to beat me. No one wants to play a hard game where they can never win. If you do want to play that game, play control shaman and enjoy your 75% loss rate to aggro DH. No RNG. You will just lose guaranteed. People like to play mage since at least vs aggro DH they stand some sort of chance since they can discover taunt in power of creation or cheat out a turn 6 box and pray for a win and sometimes get there. Their deck isn't favoured but at least they can win sometimes.

I think actually a lack of RNG is a big problem right now with the top tier decks. Even face hunter can draw its boar and get unlucky. Aggro DH is so consistent it's unbelievable. If they had some bad RNG so they could lose sometimes it would be great.

Quote from RAGEdarky >>

Another useless salty thread.

 The better point is that rez priest is completely unfun to play against. If you arn't playing a top tier deck you have to play a 20 minute game where you will always lose anyway since there is actually very little RNG in rez priest. It just wins the game and there is nothing you can do lol. Like what do you do vs priest if you're playing something that doesn't kill them or have constant threats like HL hunter? Say you are playing control shaman or control warrior? Not much. You can never win so forced to concede.

Quote from NLbouncyknight >>

Quote from Ravza >>

People complaining about RNG have no idea. The most broken busted decks in this meta have absolutely no RNG. They are so busted because they are consistent. DH basically kills you by turn 5/6 guaranteed every game. Sure there is some RNG because of bad draws. Ultimately though the best decks, being tempo DH (which is absolutely the best deck right now, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, all the latest VS data confirms it's the best in legend - look out for the next meta report), hunter and enrage warrior have very little RNG. Hunter has a discover effect and sky raider gives a random pirate. there are lackeys though of course in enrage warrior. Other than that though very little RNG. Priest is a weak class and has lots of RNG.

Imagine you play every game and DH just gets its cards, same game plan, and kills you on turn 6 every single game. DH is so consistent it basically does just that. That's a boring game no one would play (which is kind of why I am surprised they didn't do anything about it).

 

 whut priest is a weakl class ?? are you kidding its tier 1 XD 

 Not according to the hsreplay data (their tier list is wrong though, doesn't work properly, but check the raw data) and the vicious syndicate data. The data shows priest is definitely not tier 1. Far from it. The trouble for priest is that it has some really bad matchups in the meta. It's really good against warrior but warrior isn't enough of the meta right now for that fact alone to carry priest to be a top tier deck. It's absolutely horrible vs HL hunter which is a high portion of the legend meta (and diamond too). It's funny since some people believe priest counters highlander hunter. The stats show this is simply not the case and the HL hunter enjoys an extremely favourable matchup. However, the dragon hunter deck that's really popular doesn't do so well vs priest as HL hunter which is why people might get confused. Priest also has a very bad matchup against galakrond rogue. That's two EXTREMELY unfavoured matchups without even debating the status of aggro DH and what that means for priest. I may have said tempo DH was the best deck above but I mistyped that. I meant aggro DH being the version with beaming sidekicks.

People complaining about RNG have no idea. The most broken busted decks in this meta have absolutely no RNG. They are so busted because they are consistent. DH basically kills you by turn 5/6 guaranteed every game. Sure there is some RNG because of bad draws. Ultimately though the best decks, being tempo DH (which is absolutely the best deck right now, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, all the latest VS data confirms it's the best in legend - look out for the next meta report), hunter and enrage warrior have very little RNG. Hunter has a discover effect and sky raider gives a random pirate. there are lackeys though of course in enrage warrior. Other than that though very little RNG. Priest is a weak class and has lots of RNG.

Imagine you play every game and DH just gets its cards, same game plan, and kills you on turn 6 every single game. DH is so consistent it basically does just that. That's a boring game no one would play (which is kind of why I am surprised they didn't do anything about it).

You can't win vs tempo DH anymore after the nerf. It was actually a bit of a buff in the sense that now tempo DH runs a better more streamlined deck with beaming sidekicks that put their stuff out of consecration range so you tend to just lose the game. they also won't let you establish a minion for hand of adal. In any event, DH just kills you before you can play a libram of hope and there is nothing you can do. The chances you even draw one before you are dead are slim since you are literally dead on turn 5/6 consistently. The deck is so fast they don't even bother with priestess. They often run double mana burn so that you can't even play libram of hope/amber watcher. The paladin deck is so predictable and fair and honest and bad that mana burn makes it obsolete (mana burn is a completely busted card in high legend).

If you think there are patterns play a busted deck which is consistent and never fails with no random outcomes. For example, tempo DH. They don't discover at all. Also tempo warrior. Tempo DH beats everything but warrior without any random cards.

Quote from jwbrain >>

Galakrond Warlock usually does pretty well against Priest. Just save your Breaths, fully invoke Galakrond, and set up to Alex and burst them.

 Quest warlock beats priest I am pretty sure. There isn't much the priest can do because they only have 30hp. I mean quest warlock actually beats everything though (except warrior and heavy aggro decks). The deck is pretty busted. It's just so hard to play no one does it lol.

No random cards is bad too. Take a look at DH. There is no randomness to it and it is extremely consistent and basically unbeatable. Look at the stats for top 1k legend and diamond through legend for tempo DH after the patch. Literally nothing has changed. In fact in many ways the deck is stronger (they weren't running priestess anyway and double mana burn is absolutely busted in high legend - makes the deck near unbeatable). Randomness sometimes feels better then a deck which consistently and predictably wins all the time. The strongest decks in the meta don't have much randomness. The randomness in warrior is where the bomb wrangler bombs go and how much they hit for. Otherwise the deck just consistently wins and there is basically nothing you can do about it. You need some god randomness to have a chance and then people complain that the randomess that gets someone a 30% win rate against DH or warrior is bad for the game.

I do have to say this deck when played optimally is basically unbeatable. You can beat it with like scrap imp zoolock or murloc paladin, something ultra aggressive. If you are playing though any kind of slow deck you have close to 0% win rate. You can only win if maly or alex is at the bottom is on the bottom of the deck and even then if its a version playing zephyrs and dragonqueen alexstraza you're still in trouble). I am pretty sure this deck is favoured vs even highlander hunter, even though the stats on hsreplay say otherwise (it wouldn't be favoured vs some deathrattle type hunter with savannah highmane etc though).

It may be that DH cards are so good it's impossible to create a campaign where the player doesn't steamroll it lol.

Quote from XDrakkosX >>

I went 13-4 from 3 to legend this morning with dragon hunter.  It’s a great deck against rogues and DH’s.  All 4 losses were to warrior...

 Wait until you face the new DH deck. It's pretty difficult for hunter to win. Dragon hunter might stand more of a chance but it's pretty screwed up facing this deck. There is beaming sidekick of course so that you can't kill their stuff. However, high legend DHs are running double mana burn now. This is a pretty insane card if you know how to use it. I don't think there has been an effect before where you so easily start manipulating your opponent's mana crystals. There has always been giving your opponent mana but not removing your opponent's mana. In the hands of an experienced player the card is pretty busted. There is a skill aspect to it since mana burn basically does nothing when inexperienced players use it since they use it when it will have no impact. You need to know the ins and outs of the other deck and what they have to answer your board and then play mana burn or even double mana burn so they simply can't do that now.

Mana burn can be like having a more powerful one mana maeiv in some ways. Maiev is a very powerful card when used well. It is like a 52% win rate card when used badly and a 70% win rate card when used well. It can take out another minion from play. What mana burn does is take something out from play before you can play it, and mitigate its effect. So, for example, it can stop you playing alexstraza on 9. It can stop you healing with libram of hope. It can stop you playing galakrond, It can make sure you can't play your board clear like twisting nether or you can't poof as a mage. It's an extremely powerful and busted effect on a one mana card. The one draw back of course is it's pretty bad vs aggro decks but DH does so well vs aggro it doesn't matter. The nerfs really didn't do anything. Nothing has changed except people are using even more powerful cards now instead of the nerfed 2/1.

Quote from adityajibhkate >>

Dh can easily be handled with control decks. But who will play a control deck when gala rogue and gala priest exists . So dh can easily thrive.

 Which control deck? Control warrior is lucky to be 50/50 vs it.