Hearthpwn

T'sup.

So. Title.

I have -the worst- Missiles RNG. Like, legendarily bad. Like, 4 minions opponents side, hit-them-in-the-face-with-2-missiles bad. And this is -not- hyperbole or recollection bias.

Complaints aside, I STILL run them for tempo and for a dash of aggro control.

I have seen lists that run Explosion, though. And I'm very interested in this primarily because, most of the times I want to throw out Missiles, it's very frequently because I'd like to hit 2 separate minions for a point each.

Anyone in rank 5+ that has feedback on one, the other, or both? I've considered chopping Missiles entirely. But then, I cut all sorts of random stuff from my lists and manage to do well.

Quote from AardvarkPepper »

Some people are going to get offended no matter what you do.  If you apologize, they're mad because you're "facetious".  If you don't apologize, you're "insensitive".  If you ask if you should apologize or not, you're "ignorant".  If you don't ask if you should apologize or not, you "think you're superior."

(and other stuff)

 This is a really thoughtful and intelligent reply, and it's a shame there aren't more people with this level of consideration and cognizance.

Quote from Triskaidekaphilia »

There are only two times I like the apology

1. I've just used the Oops command
2. They just top-decked a victory while I have card advantage and kill on the board.

 I think this is essentially how I feel about that command. Agree. <3

Quote from Nuba »

I usually apologize, but I am just being an asshole

And this pretty much retroactively justifies the argument that people who use it are, in fact, just being assholes. Your honesty is refreshing, though!

I agree with most of what everyone else said-- Poly to Water Elemental is solid. 

I don't think it's about YOUR play, it's about the options you leave HIM if you do so. If he has no other 4 drop, his mana will be less efficient, and will probably run out a pair of guys, which your Golem + flip can handle. You have Faceless as a pseudo-answer for a later legendary, and if he's playing the same (or similar) deck, the only other really worrisome guys are like, Yeti or Boulderfist. 

You don't run out the Amani, because you want to be able to protect him so he can trade up. Sunfury and Earthen Ring are both Anemic. Playing your own Water Elemental and passing would have been "alright", but it cedes tempo to him. And you would have lost your Golem for sure.

Antonidas isn't "bad". But he doesn't typically "do anything" the turn you play him. The earliest you can cycle a card into a Fireball is turn 8, which delays him hitting the table for a turn. And you have to -have- a spell to cycle before you get a return on him.

If you can plunk him on the table and manage to untap the next turn, then you are in a great position (usually). But it's the whole ~getting to that stage~ which is a problem.

Let me know how your Shieldmasta testing goes-- I keep vacillating on whether or not I want to go back to him.

Alright. Fair enough-- at your guys' recommendations, I'll sub in the Azure's and see how they do, again. It's been a little while since I tried them. Thanks for the feedback~

Yeah, Pagle, man....

I actually have the dust to make him, I just haven't pulled the trigger on crafting him yet. But I should really cut it out and just do it. Even if it's just to test him. Funnily, I was going to craft him specifically for my Rogue deck. So I guess he'd be pulling double-duty

You know, I've thought about Watchers? But I just don't have the energy to test it out. It seems a little antithetical to your build, though? You're trying to be the aggressor, no? It would be a huuuuuge boost against aggro, though. 

Don't misunderstand-- Ragna is good. Very strong. But his randomness just drives me nuts. I definitely think it's more a matter of preference than efficiency.

@Treant :: The Acolyte is usually more than sufficient to power my draws. I tried the Azure's for a while, and often ended end wishing they were a 4/5 of some kind. I might try them again soon, though. Sometimes I do stutter on draws.

@Sinful :: Your list is interesting. How are you finding the Sheidlmasta's working for you? I'm also interested in your spell lineup. Like, SUPER interested. How are you finding the Explosion, and single Polymorph? And the 2x Flamestrike?

Updated 02.15.14

Hmm. Dropped to low rank 5, and back to rank 4. Took out the Twilight Drake's for Sen'jin Shieldmasta's, then put them back in. If I'm playing Sen'Jin because I ~need~ him, I've lost control of the game. And a single large taunt is too easy to play around.

Instead, I took out Mirror Image and Sunfury Protector, and put in Arcane Missiles and Mad Bomber. Both have done about as well as I expected, so I'll probably keep trying them for a while. Bomber hitting my own Acolyte or Berserker isn't bad, either.

Also took out Ragnaros the Firelord and Archmage Antonidas-- neither were doing what I wanted them to, frankly. I mean, Ragna is great, but if I'm giving my endgame away to RnG, I'd rather just... find ways to strengthen the deck instead. Antonidas is a good time if you can untap with him, but that feels like basically almost never. (that's hyperbole-- he's actually totally playable. He's just so slooooow)

Harrison Jones has been a monster for me, the past few games. Also fits well into my curve. I'm still repping 1 Faceless, and am ~mostly~ happy with it. I'm still gun-shy about copying my own 4-drops for tempo, and I really shouldn't be. I might even go to 2 Faceless.

I'm also considering giving Illidan another try. But then, he suffers from the same problem as Antonidas. Hrm.

I think my deck is trying to get away from passivity, even if it has to embrace more RnG for it. I don't like taunts, and I don't like anything that has to "wait a turn" to do something. Battlecry effects seem like the best fit for the deck. 

Also? I might be batshit crazy, but I'm giving really serious consideration to pulling out the Frostbolts for Arcane Intellect. 

I suspect that it sounds better than it is, but there's many times where Frostbolt is just sort of... there. And I wish it was something else.

Does anyone have experience with Hogger or King Mukla in midrange builds? Both of those seem maybe playable. 

My deck is in the thread-- it's the one Mid Range Mage [in progress] I'd be delighted to hear your feedback on it, if you had some time.

I've changed the list a little today. My current legendary Lineup:

Sylvanas Windrunner:: She's actually really mediocre in today's meta, since the nerf. And since I'm so mid-range-ish, she's often underwhelming running her out solo. That said, I'd still never take her out. <3 But I'd say she's one of the least important.

Cairne Bloodhoof:: very strong. If you run yeti's and Golem's, you should run this guy, ImO. He's just so huge. 

Harrison Jones:: I know this looks goofy, but he's been really good so far! I've managed to snipe a dagger, a Storm Axe, a Doomhammer AND a Jaraxxus weapon. Every time I've had him he's been incredible. That said, he's basically a slightly more expensive Yeti with switched values, and I'd just run him out turn 5 if against a cloth-class. Since you play Ooze's he's waaaay less good.

Tinkmaster Overspark:: Not much to say here. he's pretty staple. Polymorph #3, basically, against huge bodies. 

The Black Knight:: A beating against Druids (of the Claw). But also great against Giants, and sometimes Rogues. Or anyone playing Argus, really. Sometimes he's kind of stranded in my hand, but it's not very often.

I also play 1 Faceless, and if I were you, I would consider running 2x Faceless, if you have them. It'll help you maintain parity against Druids turn 5, and they are a great play against other legendaries with a Polymorph in hand. Copy theirs, poly theirs.

I tried Illidan for a little while, and while he's not bad, he basically has taunt and dies immediately. I also tried Ragnaros, and found he was just far too slow. When he was good, he was amazing (particularly against Druid). But then, there were plenty of games where'd I'd be thinking to myself, "Why the hell is this game going so long?" And if his RnG misses, you hate life. And I tried Antonidas, too. While fun, he's way worse than I first thought. He's really slow, and you have to have a spell to "turn him on", and that's turn 8, at the earliest, if you want to get value back. But if you untap with him alive, you more or less win.

Anyway. I would say Cairne is the best pick to craft. Or Black Knight. You can jimmy-jam them in most decks, too.

My win rate against Druid is pretty high-- I'd say around 80-90%. I'm surprised you struggle with them so much, actually. What is it you're finding trouble with?

Legendaries would certainly give your deck some staying power. Ragnaros, Cairne and Sylvanas are all a beating.

That said, well done with your rank, so far~

I agree with Sunfury's being overall strong; the fact that you can run them out early to clean out some aggro, or hold it for a later play to give Shields Up is nice. She's still an ugly topdeck with nothing on the board, though. 

I think Mirror Image is going to be the next cut from mine-- it never does what I want it to, it seems. That could be hindsight bias. 
I'm torn on sweepers-- I feel like if you need to sweep, you may have lost control of the game. But there's been plenty of times, too, where I sure wish I had one! But when I ran Blizzard, there just felt like too many times it would sit stranded in my hand, pretty much dead.

That seems to be the problem I'm  encountering at rank 4-- Mage ~has~ the tools for every situation, but not enough room to run them all.

Also sitting at rank 4, and I think it's definitely Acolyte. 

Untainted nailed it, describing how the opponent will usually burn a card of some kind to answer him. It also gives a little oomph against aggro.

The only problem with him is that he's reaaaaaallllly slow if you want to get full value of of him. I've had a few games where I wished he was an Intellect. Particularly with a Mana Wyrm on deck.

I would like to play both, but simply can't find the room.

Heya~

I've recently swapped away from infinite arena runs in favor of trying to grind up into Legend. My two primary classes are Rogue and Mage (and not because they were the most broken, before you comment, you!)

Recently, I've been experimenting with Mage builds, trying to find something competitive. I'm currently rank 6 on ladder, and plan on grinding a fair bit this evening. 

The list (rank 5 as of 02.13.14):

This is sort of a tri-fusion between my own early experiments, and the recent EU 1st place winner (Ametyst), as well as Ostkaka's build.

Current winrate against Druid is very high-- I'd say 90% or so. And seeing as the meta is heavily Druidic, it's an enjoyable match.

Turbo-aggro decks are a problem, hence the inclusion of Sunfury Protector. I've also considered Wild Pyromancer, but I suspect he'll be too slow and clunky. Another alternative, which I was running in my Turbomage build is Arcane Missiles and Mad Bomber-- those two are pretty MvP against aggro. But I'm not ready to commit 4 slots to shoring up the aggro match. Yet. Maybe Cone of Cold?

Warriors are mostly in my favor, due to sheer size on my midgame and their lack of good field-recovery. Water Elemental does work when armor is down.

Rogues are a little dicey-- if they get good tempo, it can be hard to recover. Still, I'd say it's no worse than 50%. Again, Water Elemental gets there.

Other than that, yes-- it IS a lot of 4 drops. No, I ~don't~ want to take any out. turns 4-6, you're going to have the biggest guys on the field, no question. You want to parlay your midgame into an oppressive later game but 1-for-1 removing things they play with Fireball and Polymorph. 

My only consideration right now is trying to find room for another pair of 2-drops. Faerie Dragon, I'm thinking, just for early damage and inevitability, and "defense" against Betrayal and Cone of Cold, which see zero play to my knowledge, so it's irrelevant.

Anyway. I'd love to get other ranked Mages on board and make this Legendary material. I welcome any and all feedback.

I'll be streaming regularly with this for the next few nights, if anyone is interested.

Anyway. Thanks for your time and interest in reading!

Quote from Hearthsam »

Quote from Xelathur »

If aggro is such a problem, build an anti-aggro Midrange deck that completely obliterates aggro. 

People already attempt to do this, even the best of Druid/Pally decks fall flat against Hunter if they have the correct draws.

That's kind of a silly argument. 

EVERY deck is amazing when they "have the correct draws". 

I tend to agree with the assessment that the higher ranks have faaaar fewer aggro decks. Lots of Druid, some Paladin, some Shaman. None of which are aggro. Even Warlocks are about 50/50 between Giants and Murlocs.

After a little hiatus, stream is back up~~

And now with a moving picture (read: camera) of my stupid, scrubby face.

Still doing regular arena runs (typically pulling down 7+) with helpful commentary, and a bit of ranked climbing, too. (Specializing in Rogue, Mage and Murloc Druid, haha)

If you're up and have nuffin to do, drop by. <3

It's just a function of paralanguage. While I, too, personally find it distasteful when people throw up a "Well played" (or gg) before I have offered one first, I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it, either. I personally don't say "Well played" unless it was well-played, and I was outplayed (actually, I mostly agree with Winslow in entirety, a page back). But that's irrelevant.

What I think ~is~ worth mentioning is I think those people who fall onto the defense of "It's just standard behavioral etiquette to say gg as a show of sportsmanship" are ones who might stand to take a second look at why they do this.

This is where I fundamentally disagree. Sportsmanship-- like any interaction with another person-- should be conscious and cognizant. Slamming the 'g' button twice and hitting enter doesn't make for sportsmanship; it makes for pointless routine devoid of actual meaning. When hitting "Well played" becomes as routine and automatic as hitting "find opponent", it stops being sportsmanship. Instead it turns into laziness at best, and perceived arrogance, at worst. 

There's some truth to the timing and tact involved in saying certain phrases during a certain point. Mid-match, if someone says "Well played" after a strong move, ~that~ is a show of sportsmanship. Just like dropping a legendary that crushes the board, and saying "Well played" can be construed as ill-mannered.

People who pick up on and respect these nuances aren't common. Because it's being considerate. 

Read that again; ~trying to understand how your actions may be interpreted is a sign of consideration~; which is what sportsmanship is. Just like not wasting someone else's time when you've won (or lost). Just win. Or just concede. You don't need to play out your hand in order to make yourself feel better, win or lose. Just save everyone the time.

Just the opinion of an old-skooler. Maybe I'm bringing too much psychology and arcade-etiquette to the table.