Hearthpwn

Quote from jazzfan27 >>

 Priest is in a good state?  What deck are priest players going to play????

 Just play good control cards, a nice curve and some neutral finisher like c'thun or yogg, priest never needed a real deck, it's going to be an aggro meta like nearly every meta, enjoy ! 7 out of the 10 new cards are great control tools.

I don't hate rogue, I like losing to rogue more than any other class (except mill rogue and priest rogue of course).

There's no bullshit in aggro/tempo rogue decks (in general, I know the lackeys are 100% bullshit), crazy powerful combos yes, fast cycling through the deck yes, some mana cheating yes, but no out of this world bullshit, you know what to expect, and if you lose, it's either your fault, or your draw order's fault.

One layer of RNG is enough, it's bad enough to not draw the cards you need, I hate losing to randomly generated stuff, especially the low cost cards generating high cost cards.

But it took me a while to think this way, I used to hate rogues in Vanilla because miracle rogue was very oppressive to control decks, and the feeling sticked, took me years to start appreciating playing with or against rogue. 

So i've seen a few people worrying about the state of hunters in the new expansions, they don't know what direction hunter is taking and seem to think there are a lot of bad new cards.

That got me thinking and taking another look at all the new cards, I was curious to see if any class seems in a bad state in your opinion, and ultimately which class is in a great state ?

I know this is all speculation of course, but that's the point isn't it ? Not very interesting to answer these questions when the meta is settled.

In my opinion, demon hunters are in big trouble, if the deathrattle archetype doesn't work out, well there's nothing else but old decks butchered by nerfs and rotation. I'll be playing my off meta full outcast deck as usual.

Hunter cards aren't very impressive build around cards, but none of them are bad except Prospector's Caravan and can be played in pretty much every hunter deck, and I think a lot of people are sleeping on the 2 epics.

Druid got another ramp meme epic card, I don't know how Celestial Alignment can benefit the druid player more than the opponent in any way. I don't believe in the taunt archetype either. But living seed (rank 1), Pride's Fury and Druid of the Plains are insane cards, so it's all good.

Mage is all good with powerful freeze cards to replace frostbolt, nova and blizzard, another insane card draw, and great support cards for hero power deck. They even got a new face damage toy to play with.

Paladin I'm not sure, secret archetype seems fine, holy spell archetype is clearly incomplete and will have to wait for the mini set. The keleseth spell could be insanely good or complete trash.

Priest doing priest stuff and controling the board. All very good cards except the caravan (I guess all caravans suck) and Serena.

Rogue I think Yoink! and Oil Rig Ambusher and the only mediocre cards ? The octo-bot will spawn countless of OTK decks, the poisons are insane with the new weapon, there's a replacement for eviscerate, card draw, mana cheating.. Rogues being OP as usual, I don't mind.

Shaman gets insane murlocs and decent elementals, spell damage synergy, 0 card draw as usual (bad blizzard !) and 0 card generation for a change (good blizzard !).

Warlock gets an auto include in control decks (Tamsin), a 1 mana Void Contract, and 8 trash cards. I'm a little bit worried but warlock can always find a way to build aggro decks using the neutral cards.

Warrior gets the best card in the set (in the game?) Outrider's Axe and honestly, all the other cards look super intersting as well.

I think Warrior and Rogue are in a great state. Mage, Hunter, Shaman, Druid and Priest are in a good state. Demon hunter and Warlock are in trouble. Paladin is unknown. This is based on the barrens cards only, not the core set or the other expansions.

Quote from brother >>

Quote from PetiteMouche >>

Quote from brother >>

I agree with you completely. It’s been plain and uninspired, I don’t get how anyone can claim otherwise.  Barak Kodobane and Tavish Stormpike straight up look like commons.

 It's the point.

Plain and uninspired is what you are at level 12 in the barrens.

You're saying barak kodobane would be a better art if he was wearing more advanced/fantasy armor ? That's why people like you shouldn't have the right to speak about art.

Quote from UltraJeeves >>

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that HS has been moving in a cartoonist direction for a while. Could be to appeal to a specific market?

 So I looked at the 60 cards revealed so far. I counted exactly 2 cartoonish cards. Peon and Nofin Can Stop Us. You are wrong, but yes they are trying to appeal to everyone, children and adults.

 First of all, that’s a rather rude remark to make at someone for having a different opinion than you, but you’re free to get on a high horse and try to judge who should be allowed to speak about art if you’re fine with looking like a huge snob.   Additionally, I definitely didn’t imply that character’s design should be changed to give off a “fantasy” motif, especially considering the armor matches what the original WoW NPC wore. It’s more like perhaps creating a more dynamic image or some added detail for what’s allegedly a Legendary minion. But hey, if you are into the art for what it is then good for you - there’s no need for any animosity.

 You are correct, I was frustrated to see some people trashing art for no valid reason like every expansion and targeted you unfairly.

When you said it's plain and uninspired it triggered me because it's intended to be plain, that's the inspiration, a plain, low level zone, instead of the generally super epic or goofy expansions, it was a risk but it's a success in my opinion, I hope the alliance expansion is also in a low level zone. Some of the mercenaries even wear level 1 start of game armor, I can literally identify with the mercenary cards, it's awesome !

As for the dynamic images... I mean, some characters are doing something, some are just standing doing nothing, I like both styles, there's the golden cards too, as dynamic as an image can get, after that it's a video lol

Quote from UdderCowtastrophe >>

Those achievements can only be done in ranked mode. I'm guessing you were playing casual or something?

 I literally never play casual, I didn't even know that lol. I guess I could have clicked on casual by mistake, but twice with different decks at a different time ?

That's the best explanation I have at the moment so, I'll take it and try again, thank you

Played a 11/11 fortune teller, no achievement

killed 5 different minions with throw glaive, no achievement

Stupid achievements wasting my time with stupid decks why do I even care about 100 xp I'll just go AFK farming like everyone, anyway... Anybody has a clue what's happening ?

I did not concede. Fortune teller was played from hand with 8 spells. I killed my own minions with throw glaive because stupid matchmaking will never put me against token druid when I have throw glaive in my deck and it's like the only deck in the meta that plays minions, but the achievement doesn't tell enemy minions, just minions.

Only problem I can think of, is that I'm playing on the french version, and they got the translation wrong... But that's unlikely. It says kill 5 minions in one turn with throw glaive, and get a fortune teller with 10 or more attack.

Quote from xskarma >>

Quote from PetiteMouche >>

Isn't every card in this game meant to enable or be enabled by other cards ?

On some cards they force the requirement but it's no different than a Frost Nova or a Self-Sharpening Sword if you know what I mean.

Some cards are worse than others in a vaccum, but all cards are better with synergy

 Not quite.

Ysera, Unleashed is good on it's own. You can put it in any deck you wish and it will be a strong card.

Kargal Battlescar is pointless without Watchpost cards and can only be put in decks and function if you include them too.

and

Kurtrus Ashfallen works on it's own in any Demon Hunter deck. You can build various archetypes of decks and include this and it will just work.

Firemancer Flurgl is a pointless card in most Shaman decks. It needs specifically a Murloc Shaman deck to work, which means you need other (Shaman) Murloc synergy cards.

and, pulling away from current expansion:

Soul Mirror can find a spot in any Priest deck and work, doesn't matter much which cards you put in with it.

Shadowjeweler Hanar needs you to specifically run secrets with it, or it is a dead card.


That's what I mean. We are getting more Shadowjeweler Hanar's and Kargal Battlescars in this expansion than we are used to seeing.


I do agree with the person above though that mentioned spell schools. That might indeed be part of the reason why we see more specific legendaries now, as a few of them have that stipulation.

 Yeah but that's not true (your first sentence), you can indeed put Ysera unleashed in every deck and activate its effect in every deck but it won't be equally strong in every deck. And druid is in kind of a weird place with ramp and Ysera, allowing him to play Ysera even in very aggressive token decks (as a matter of fact I do play Ysera in my token druid, without ramp, that's how good she is), generating essentially a bunch of huge tokens at the end of the curve, or in very heavy control decks to get some free presence on the board over multiple turns, that was a great example for your point but kind of unfair to be honest, Ysera in more the exception than the rule.

I understand what you mean don't worry about that, i'm just saying every card has certain "requirements" to be played optimally and you always try to play optimally, for any given deck you always need 25-29 other cards to build around your win condition and what I mean is that it doesn't really matter if the requirement is a specific card decided by Blizzard or a card of your choice, these 25-29 cards will end up being the same that everyone plays, wether it's built around Firemancer Flurgl or Ysera, Unleashed. However it does matter for deck diversity.

And in every expansion there are plenty of cards that require you to play specific cards instead of letting the community discovers which cards would be the best combination. Cards like OG C'Thun, Mysterious Challenger, Undertaker... It's not new, even in basic and classic set. (doomhammer virtually requiring rockbiter, eaglehorn bow not-virtually requiring secrets, etc)

Maybe there are slightly more in this particular expansion, I haven't noticed, but I don't think this is a trend, there must always be simple cards with very low requirement, cause they are essential to new players and new players are the highest priority of Blizzard by far, so don't worry, there will always be standalone cards in the game.

Think about it the other way, if there were no card with forced requirement or situational effects, there would be far less diversity in the meta, because every one would just play the best combination of 30 cards for every class, each class would essentially have 1 or 2 decks, 1 aggro and 1 control.

without Firemancer Flurgl, would anyone play murloc decks ?

Without Shadowjeweler Hanar, would you ever play secrets in your rogue deck ?

Without Kargal Battlescar, would you even care to experiment with the watchpost cards ? In fact I suspect the watchposts to see more play than Kargal but that's a topic for another time.

Of course it's not always true, like demon hunters who can play the cards without Soulciologist Malicia, which is a good thing, it may lower the overall value of Malicia compared to a less restricted legendary, but it increases the value of the soul fragment cards in exchange. And Il'gynoth who can be played in virtually every deck (I don't think there's a single DH deck without any lifesteal) will in the end only see play in a single, extremely specific OTK deck, while specific situationnal Malicia can see play in a variety of decks. Not the best example, because the soul fragment cards are very strong and universal, but still, you get my point.

The cards that have more specific requirements generally have more powerful effects, and my point is that these cards very often require playable common and rare cards to function, and even the most casual of players has all the commons and rares at the end of an expansion cycle. So that is why I said that I don't see these cards as fundamentally different than "normal" cards that require other "normal" cards to function.

In the end it's up to you to play these highly synergistic decks that can completely ruin your game if you draw in the wrong order and require you to unpack specific commons and rares, sometimes epics I guess, or more streamlined, curve-ish decks with more consistent hands but less power plays.

Also, worth mentioning I think, every year it's harder and harder for control decks to keep up with powercreep. They have to print crazy powerful high cost cards, and as a result they have to balance these cards with specific requirements and deck building restrictions so we don't just auto-win be playing the card without doing any work. It's a never ending struggle between aggro and control to keep them fairly balanced against each other. 

Isn't every card in this game meant to enable or be enabled by other cards ?

On some cards they force the requirement but it's no different than a Frost Nova or a Self-Sharpening Sword if you know what I mean.

Some cards are worse than others in a vaccum, but all cards are better with synergy

Quote from Snowy_a >>

Quote from PetiteMouche >>

Quote from brother >>

I agree with you completely. It’s been plain and uninspired, I don’t get how anyone can claim otherwise.  Barak Kodobane and Tavish Stormpike straight up look like commons.

 It's the point.

Plain and uninspired is what you are at level 12 in the barrens.

You're saying barak kodobane would be a better art if he was wearing more advanced/fantasy armor ? That's why people like you shouldn't have the right to speak about art.

Quote from UltraJeeves >>

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that HS has been moving in a cartoonist direction for a while. Could be to appeal to a specific market?

 So I looked at the 60 cards revealed so far. I counted exactly 2 cartoonish cards. Peon and Nofin Can Stop Us. You are wrong, but yes they are trying to appeal to everyone, children and adults.

Id actually say this is actually the best art in an expansion we've had so far. There are more cards which look very satisfying with their color combination and proportions than ever before for my taste. When I think of a well made card I think of Darnassus Aspirant and Temporus.

When I think of a card with bad art I think of Wilfred Fizzlebang. This expansions has more of the former than any so far.

Do you agree?

 I'd have to take a deep look at all the cards in all expansions to say which one has the best art. Like I said in another post it doesn't make a lot of sense to judge an entire expansion's art as there are many artists. But I do know that all expansions have a least 80% of great art in my opinion, if anything it's the people who like cartoonish art style who don't have a lot of cards to enjoy.

I do agree on darnassus aspirant it's one of the best arts in the game. Temporus is great too but doesn't strike me as a particularly epic drawing. Not sure why you think wilfred is bad though, gnome arts are often cartoonish and this one is dark and realistic and the gnome body and face is very detailed I like it.

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from PetiteMouche >>

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Idk, I feel like that mode would get old pretty fast, considering it’s basically a slightly more complex tavern brawl. I think it would be fun to have an “autocomplete” mode, where we get to choose 1 card. Literally any card we want, and then let the autocomplete bot finish the deck and we have to use that. Could even have it use cards not in the collection, to get a similar “preview” feeling to cards we don’t have. Would create some hilariously memey matchups

 There is a button that does exactly that in the deck builder, I'm not really sure what's the added benefit of making it an actual game mode, just auto complete your decks if you want to

 Because autocomplete decks usually suck.  If both players have to use them, it becomes much more interesting.

 I guess you're right it sucks less if both players suck but can't you play with friends ?

I had a lot of ideas like that as well, for example only one expansion allowed to build your deck, autocomplete, rarity based, etc, but it's really not innovative enough to justify a new game mode.

Or basically they should make a permanent tavern brawl game mode where players can chose individually what type of brawls they wanna play or make custom ones.

Still a crazy amount of work for the devs, for something you can basically do manually against friends.

It's like the new Nozdormu card. People have the option if they want and hope to match against other Nozdormu players (which is supsect the matchmaking system is fully able to do), but they can't expect blizzard or the community to just build a game mode with 15 seconds rope.

I still don't get why they removed it.

It honestly was the most genuine and useful emote. And every emote is BM when you're losing.

The hello emote shouldn't even exist and is the most abused one, it should be automatic at the start of the game.

95% complete, I used to have 100% complete but there's not point keeping the absolute trash or powercreeped cards.

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Idk, I feel like that mode would get old pretty fast, considering it’s basically a slightly more complex tavern brawl. I think it would be fun to have an “autocomplete” mode, where we get to choose 1 card. Literally any card we want, and then let the autocomplete bot finish the deck and we have to use that. Could even have it use cards not in the collection, to get a similar “preview” feeling to cards we don’t have. Would create some hilariously memey matchups

 There is a button that does exactly that in the deck builder, I'm not really sure what's the added benefit of making it an actual game mode, just auto complete your decks if you want to

Quote from RomanKnight >>

No,bad idea. The 90% of fun for me personally is deckbuilding. To create your deck or modify an existing is what HS is about, not playing premade decks 

 This man said everything.

The number of decks that are fun and unique while also being top tier is a very, very precious few throughout the entirety of the history of HS.

Every deck is unique. Fun is subjective and mostly based on how much a deck is beeing played, not how cool are the interactions within the deck. Wild Secret mage would be a super fun deck if it hadn't been preying on homebrew and control decks in low ranks for years.

It is a mode where we use Blizz made, prebuilt decks only.

They are some of the most uninspired and unrefined decks but ok, I guess that's your definition of fun.

When I see a card/deck that I think is strong/cool but nobody plays it, well, I play it, or try at least. Currently I'm playing a midrange corrupt DH deck with a ton of unused card, and guess what, it works fine i'm having better results than the cookie cutter meta aggro deck, no need for a specific game mode.

Quote from brother >>

I agree with you completely. It’s been plain and uninspired, I don’t get how anyone can claim otherwise.  Barak Kodobane and Tavish Stormpike straight up look like commons.

 It's the point.

Plain and uninspired is what you are at level 12 in the barrens.

You're saying barak kodobane would be a better art if he was wearing more advanced/fantasy armor ? That's why people like you shouldn't have the right to speak about art.

Quote from UltraJeeves >>

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that HS has been moving in a cartoonist direction for a while. Could be to appeal to a specific market?

 So I looked at the 60 cards revealed so far. I counted exactly 2 cartoonish cards. Peon and Nofin Can Stop Us. You are wrong, but yes they are trying to appeal to everyone, children and adults.