Hearthpwn

Quote from TwInfernal jump

Is the card good or not? :)

Depends. The deck, meta, and even the situation decide how long before you can expect to get the ambushes and your deck and your opponents deck decide the interest rate you need. If the profit is positive then it is safe to say the card is "good".

Ok, i will use the picture that ends with "3 mana all" and try to explain what i am showing.

cost: The card costs 3 mana to play and you are playing it on turn 0 so the present value is 3 mana.

return per: one must estimate how much a 4/4 vanilla is worth on the turn you receive it, and in that particular image i am estimating it at 3 mana.

expected returns: the three columns under each expected returns label indicate the number of turns after the turn the card is played that  we expect to get an ambush.

rate: the "interest" rate used to convert future into present. For example, the .05 means that 1 mana this turn is worth 1.05 mana next turn and 1.1025 in 2 turns.

present value (profit): How much profit (income-expenses) the card is netting you when all gains and losses are converted to the present.

If anything is still unclear, feel free to ask.

If somebody has more accurate time counts that I could run this with, I would be happy to do so and post pics of that as well.

To address the debate i have seen going around about the value of beneath the ground, I have decided to do an economical analysis of the present value of beneath the ground.

First a few baselines. The card costs 3 mana. My first run is valuing each ambush at 3 mana on the turn you get it, second at 3.5, third at 4. I ran each with average rate of returns of 3 turns, 4 turns, 5 turns, and 6 turns followed by running the same again with the third return never happening (game ended first). Each of these is then evaluated for "interest" rates of 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%. The output is present value of profit. I am using the following equation for present value of profit:

<bdo dir="ltr">=Return/(1+rate)^time1+Return/(1+rate)^time2+Return/(1+rate)^time3-Cost</bdo>

 All data is in attachments to aid load times. 4 mana, only 2 is not attached due to attachment limit.

Finally to my jaw back in place. This card makes Dr. Boom look like child's play.

Quote from BigFatMurloc jump

(snip)

With combo its like a slightly better feugen,

(snip)

+2 attack is a huge change, it is well beyond "slightly better".

I don't understand why people are complaining about the stats, it could be a 8/1 and it wouldn't change the card significantly. It is a card you play for the ability, the creature is just there to justify the mana cost.

If the deck won't run rag, it won't run this.

Quote from GMVillads »

Why does Blizzard continue with so much RNG?????

 This is an effect that can be mimiced in a normal card game, which most people playing a TCG are fine with. Most of the player base that don't like RNG are, in my experiance, not liking effects like unstable portal which are nothing but rng, no tactics required. Blizzard listened to that majority and provided rng that is tactical in nature

I'm going to believe blizzard had players better than were on the reveal stream test and balance this... because that is the only way I can maintain sanity.

Is this all you guys do. Is complain. Geez do you guys ever have anything positive to say? This community is full of a bunch of spoiled bm babies.

If Blizzard releases too many powerful cards, people complain of power creep to sell packs.

If Blizzard releases average cards and a few powerful ones, people complain that the expansion is "trash".

Holy shit, you people want every card to be the new Dr. Boom.

Quote from innocent_bystander12345 jump

God, this card makes me mad. Like Paladins didn't lack enough identity already? For fuck's sake, Blizzard, you'd better be giving us some OUTSTANDING class-only cards, like Inspire effects that give your other minions charge/DS/buffs. Because if it's just the usual, then Paladin will become the new Shaman.

Not enough identity? You have the best goddamn class legendary (and one of the best legendaries) -Tirion Fordring- in the game, the only card who synergize with just one concrete minion -Quartermaster-, some of the best board clears ever known to man -Equality + some AoE or Pyro-, Aldor Peacekeeper,who has a completely unique effect (except for another spell, and look out, also for paladins, and if you break the rules a bit, Shrinkmeister, but that guy is not even close to Aldor). Weapons that buff non-mechs, weapons that heal. What do you mean about lack of identity?

And well, then we see the "paladin will be the new shaman" thing... and I just laugh my ass off. Really? We did'nt even see a paladin card, except for this neutral that summons pally tokens. Do you know what does that means? It means that you have your own (and fair) Grim Patron or Injured Blademaster, your own "neutral who only one class is going to really use in constructed", at least if it's even used by paladins in constructed, wich we still don't know.

By the way we should remove Leper Gnome, because, what do you mean with "hunter's hero power for everyone?", or Voodoo Doctor, because priest is the only one who must heal a single target for 2 mana. What do you think, that these dudes are so special only paladins should see them (same goes for totems, 1/2 daggers and such)? I hope you are not the usual pally fan, because this is not even serious.

Here's the Loatheb of BRM... Would have been crazy for Blizzard to not put a super OP minion in this

I think a good idea would be to have a list of cards that can be used so players would have to get really creative and find the best options out of the allowed cards.

Dude, seriously... even if people couldn't netdeck they would probably play similar decks just with minor differences, as VeiledSyn said. It's quite simple: the objetive of the game is winning, so, in order to win, people try to build the best decks they can. To make that, you choose a class and a playstyle that fits that class.

Let's suppose someone chooses Paladin and decides to play Control. Then the person would have to add cards to the deck and try to figure out some synergy to put on the deck. Then the person would find Quartermaster + Muster for Battle an excellent combo to control the board and Equality + Wild Pyromancer as a way to clear it... maybe the person could run Aldor Peacekeeper + Stampeding Kodo too. Then the person would try to find the best cards for each stage of the game... Shielded Minibot and Zombie Chow as early game, Cairne Bloodhoof and Sylvanas Windrunner as midgame(maybe Bolvar Fordragon too), Tirion Fordring and Sneed's Old Shredder as late game. Add some removal like Truesilver Champion and Consecration and some other good minions and the deck is ready.

Let's suppose now that someone else chooses Paladin and decides to play Control. Then it would have to make the same steps mentioned before and therefore would pick at least cards that fit similar roles if not the same cards. This person might prefer Ragnaros the Firelord over Tirion Fordring, or decide to run Feugen + Stalagg instead of the Stampeding Kodos, but they'll probably agree, given that they have some experience with the game, that Shielded Minibot is an excellent 2 drop so therefore they should put it in the deck as Paladin lacks early game. This reasoning applies to most cards. In the end their decks would be quite similar, just with some differences regarding preferences or cards available in each one's collection.

That reasoning applies to almost every deck, even with netdecking. Almost every deck with the same purpose(for example two Ramp Druids or Aggro Hunter) tend to share about at least 20 cards of the deck. Without netdecking the numbers wouldn't change much given the reasoning given above. Agreed, there would be some crazy decks that only one or two people could think of, and these decks would be completely different from whatever they face, but this kind of deck already exists... Noxious is one of the players that do such things, just watch his Pirate Mage video and be happy.

Hope you understand my point.

May your travels be safe and your draws... Legendary.

The most important thing to deck spotlights is that decks need to have a guide element. Something that can teach people why/how the deck works.

I spotlight decks from our deck architects (site rank of awesome and consistent guide creators!), popular decks (how much traffic they've been getting), and sometimes a staff pick if a deck looks really cool. I also try to keep our spotlights varied so that each class gets attention, although that doesn't always work out. Oh, and budget decks are really important too with such a broad audience, so when possible, those get a lot of love. I hate featuring Wallet Warrior.

All decks get reviewed before they're spotlit, and there's even some playtesting which happens at various ranked levels of play when it isn't certain if a deck will be good enough for the masses.

I don't understand the resistance to adding more deck slots and I don't think we should have to earn it in any way. Seriously, give me 50 and I'll shut up about it.

I've noticed some interesting pattens in card discussion forums - where some people are really confident and seem to take joy in talking about how bad a card is.

So, building on those pattens, I've put together a helpful cheat sheet of how to sound smart when discussing any card in Hearthstone. 

1. If it has >= 7 attack
"It's bad, It just dies to Big Game Hunter"

2. If it costs >= 7 Mana
"It's bad, too slow and vulnerable to removal"

3. If it has 2 or less health 
"It's bad, so vulnerable to AOE"

4. If its body stats are < the mana cost
"It's bad, it has a weak body"

5. If its attack stats are > the mana cost
"It's bad, can't trade up"

6. If it has card text that depends on board state
"It's bad, too situational"

7. If the card text effect extends beyond the turn being played
"It's bad, will just get silenced"

8. If it has RNG
"It's bad, it's so unreliable. It has no place on the ladder or tournaments, maybe Arena"

9. If it can be used in Zoo
"That card is OP"

10. If it can be used with aggro Hunter
"That card is OP"

11. If it's called "Flame Leviathan"
"It's just bumhurt bad"