Hearthpwn

Excuse me, but how do you choose the card discovered?
Randomly?
Or just based on its value?

Or based on what your opponent plays/could play?
Mmhh.... that is exactly "anticipate moves during the game."

Or if you want to look at it another way it's sort of deckbuilding after the game starts.
Which let's face it, 95% of matches happen between decks that you find on online databases.

Discover is a mechanic that rewards quality play, the exact opposite of randomly generated cards. Clearly, the powerlevel of cards with discover is higher on average, and it certainly is even at the same effect/cost.

Generally the choices, which are implicit in the mechanics, reward the better player. If the choices in some cases are unbalanced, and thus the "forced pick" happens, the problem is not with the mechanics per se, it is partly physiological and partly attributable to the overall design.

Moreover, inherently, cards with discover allow more flexibility, thus allowing for changes in approach to the specific MU or even allowing for strategies that are less likely to work , at least at not very high levels, with meme decks allowed by the solidity and flexibility given by these cards.

Hello everyone.

In the past few days I have returned to play BG after a period of absence and I was a bit displaced with the new turns.
I searched around and found the work done by Minder, thanks to which I immediately regained confidence in the game.

Unfortunately I was not very comfortable with the interface and the presentation of the data, so I reworked them to make them more understandable and shared with friends who play it.

I don't know if they appreciated my work because it was me or because it worked, but you tell me. :)
I have in fact translated the little text and am sharing it here in hopes of helping someone.

I simply grouped the information differently; sorted the curves based on when you level up to 2 into four groups. (turn 2, turn 3, turn 4, turn 5) and so on.
The second table contains the minions purchased, in case it wasn't clear what the idea behind a turn was, but it's flexible and variable data, it's only to be taken as an indication to aid understanding.

The last table explains in very brief terms the relationships between curves, HP cost and tribes, but even here there are heroes that make exceptions: these are general rules that can vary in detail. (like the theory in chess, it is always useful but not always right in the particular).

This helped me to visualize the curves in the first place, then to understand them and finally to transposition between one and the other when needed.

PS: There are a few variations missing (e.g. fast STD, "shit build" when you miss the triple with a shinese curve and late level up, or curves specific to individual heroes), but I don't consider them fundamental at the moment.

BG curves

Great idea. I also happen to play by following similar principles. In addition to the suggestions already given I would also recommend:

- decks by rarity (only common, only epic, only rare)

- decks without class cards

- decks without neutrals

- decks of only one expansion or precise combinations between several expansions

- decks without spells

- archetypes based on keywords

- archetypes based on cards that limit deck building (e.g. keleseth)

- full rng decks

- Otk unlikely (eg leeroy Otk priest)

My guess is that you've been reading advice that's a little dated.

First of all you have to get familiar with the various minions and the various builds, once you have taken this familiarity you can begin to study the openings or "curves".
The standard opening (level up to 4, 7 and 9 coins) has recently started to lose appeal and at the moment is recommended only with some heroes (not many).

For a precise list of openings there is a document written by Minder, which explains in detail the purpose and advantages of each curve. I recommend you read it.

I personally reworked the data to make it a bit more readable (for me) and to better understand the curves. (similarly to what is done in the world of chess, where there are openings and transpositions)

For this reason, I have broken down the curves by when they go up (2 on x, 3 on x). The most popular curves at the moment have their names in deep green.

The curves are not universal, in the sense that some need certain tribes to work at their best, or even to be played (e.g. for 4 on 4 you need a token) and others work only with certain HP.

In my list [not exhaustive, at the moment there are 2 playable curves ("fast standard curve" and "sleepy curve") and a series of curves specific to individual heroes] you should find the information strictly necessary, while in Minder's list you should find additional information and explanations.(for me superfluous at the moment)

Always keep in mind that the curves are indications and that in certain situations you will play outside of these curves, because the most important thing in BG is to adapt to what Bob proposes.

I hope I've been helpful, if you have any questions don't hesitate.

EDIT: Some words in my excel are in french, so:
achat = purchase
et = and
puissant = strong

Thalnos + spirit lash

nortshire cleric + wild pyro + random cheat spell +  circle of healing.

Living mana + psychic scream 

Quote from JamesT >>

I'm with those that think it's only going to be kind of "meh". I'm glad they're experimenting with it, but I think it'll only be useful for tech cards or perhaps high cost cards. The problem being, that we're unlikely to see really good cards printed with the effect. And if that's the case, you'll think to yourself when building a deck, "Do I really need this flexibility when instead I could just include a better card." There will also be a high skill ceiling to using it to its full potential. May have more popularity at high legend ranks, but lower ranks will probably just skip it and stick with the agro focus.

Edit: I guess my TLDR, is why have a card in your deck that you don't want?

You're asking the wrong question.
Obviously I don't put cards in the deck that I don't want to play, however I do put cards in the deck that I only need in certain matchups, at least in a control deck.

Let's say for example that face decks infest the meta: in my deck I will put cards that heal me. If I can cycle them, even at 1 mana, I will cycle them when my opponent plays control.

The same goes for every tech card. But not only that, if I play control I must have AOE, if my opponent is OTK I don't need aoe so I cycle them.

Or I can cycle if I need solutions to a specific board or threat, not having answers in hand, or more generally to look for a specific card that can solve the game by itself.

Or maybe it allows me to play tech cards that otherwise I could not play, cards that move a lot in some MUs but against others are useless. In that case transforming the dead draw in a consumed mana seems to me positive.

And that's without talking about discovered cards.

Obviously this does not mean that the mechanics is OP. In theory the mechanic seems interesting, the strength, as always, will depend on how much Blizzard intends to charge for it.

If you've never reached legend before two factors probably need to be considered, though one you tend to rule out.
The first one is obviously the skill, after D5 it becomes much more important to optimize the plays and understand how to win MUs.
Since the skill is not purely independent of the meta and the decks used you should take only one deck to make the climb, so as to increase your chances and improve quickly.
At the limit, if you see that you have difficulty against a specific deck popular in ladder, try to adapt your deck to the MU.

The second factor is very subjective but always present at the first climb to legend: stress.
Try to relax and take 5 minutes after each defeat, even if only to understand if it was a winnable game and if you made some choices that turned out to be wrong. It’s very important.

Other: play from pc, so you can have the tracker, which is useful both for the game and to understand which MUs are tough and to what extent, as well as having a few more seconds to think. If you already do you can share your stats here which can help help you out.

Unfortunately as a priest player I don't have direct knowledge of your decks so I can't advise you more specifically.

Said that, there are two philosophies for climbing, there are those who prefer fast games to reduce the playing time, even at the expense of winrate and those who, like me, prefer slow decks but on which they have more control.

This season for example I played decks for achievements up to D5, with bad winrate. Once I got to D5 I took my favorite deck, menagerie priest, and I adapted it a bit to my micro-meta and to my tastes.
Even though it's one of the slowest decks it only took me 22 games to go from D5 to Legend. 18 wins and 4 losses, which translates to just over 4 hours of play.

Btw my worst MU (0-2) was Face Hunter ;)

Have fun and keep calm :)

Control priest is one of the hardest decks to master and people hate it, so it is often played poorly and countered excessively.

Having said that you quote Face Hunter that is one of the best MU (in addition to mirror, which if you know how to play well the deck is the best MU, at least until legend)

Quote from eskimodavid >>

It feels like a coin being flipped Everytime you play that class right now. Too much discovery and value and stall. Soul mirror, blademaster to aposthesis, auspicious spirits, the spellweavers generating more shit. Then giving them divine shield and copying them. Renew discovering more shit. Plague of death. Wave of apathy. Heal to xyrella. Draconic studies...

#1 legend control priest

"Priest leads the charge in this meta, with Control Priest exerting a dominating grip on the state of the game. The majority of decks can’t compete with Control Priest’s flexibility—and even if they could, the Priest would just randomly generate an out to close out the game.."

https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/control-priest-standard-meta-snapshot-may-18-2021

 

But try to reason for a moment; how is it possible that for Tempostorm is the best deck and on HSReplay and Vicious Syndicate the stats tell a different story?
We already explained it to you: because at the highest levels (aka top 100/200 legend) the deck is used correctly and gets such results.
But as soon as you go down the players are unable to play the deck as well and the result is the statistics that we can all see on the sites just mentioned.

Given the content of your comments it seems obvious that you are not at that level, so your opponents who play priest, on average, do not know how to play it.

And in fact the best priest deck on HSReplay (free version) is at 53.6% winrate while the other classes:
72% of a secret paladin, 64% DH, 66.7% druid, 69.5% Hunter, 66% mage, 61.9% rogue, 59.6% Shaman (!), 62.2% Lock (!) and 64.1% Warrior.

And again, if you look at Vicious Syndicate's MU charts the only positives for control priests are Face Hunter, Miracle Priest and Rush Warrior. If you filter from D4 to Legend you find another favorable MU; against Elemental Shaman. That's it.

The same things are said by the analysis as well:
Not much has changed for Control Priest. Largely unplayable where Warlocks are prevalent, and largely influential where they aren't. It also helps that Control Priest significantly improves many of its matchups at top legend. It's an impressively complex deck.

This is easily seen when you play Priest at decent levels during the climb: the best matchup for me (who have over 4k wins with the class) is the mirror. Litterally. 100% winrate this season for me (6-0).

So the options are few: either the RNG rewards those who play priest at high levels, or the RNG doesn't have much to do with it and the average player is totally incapable of predicting the course of the game and then to manage the RNG inherent in the discover and the gameplan for the game.
So if you cannot punish him for his mistakes, the problem is not his deck.

Quote from eskimodavid >>

Quote from Pas >>

I played 6 game against priest and win all the 6 game (ok, with priest too).

Priest is in a good spot, but mostly players are unable to play that class with decent winrate.

HSReplay tell us that is the worst class after shaman. Vicious syndicate tell us that control priest (best archetype for the class) is t3 at legend and diamond, and t4 on all ranks.

I enjoy playing priest and playing against priest, the winrate isn’t problematic and even the popularity isn’t problematic.

So for me is only a rant, whitout any reason behind.

 

 

 Tempo storm has them as tier 1 and if you play vs. a good one you'll see why. But even then balance aside, the bad ones can still make the games take forever. Hard to grind ladder when you run into a few of them and the games take forever

 But I « grind » ladder with priest, is not hard to play game that in average are 10-12 minutes. If you play aggro because you love short game you need to know when is time to concède against control. And again if the average game with or against priest is a12 minutes priest’s games against aggro are way faster.

I played against some pro-player past season, and yes is difficult, but that’s normal. But as I said before the average priest player you counter in ladder (at least until top 500) is not able to master the deck, and you can win even with a deck that isn’t Lock. As if you play Lock and you are a bad player you can still lose against priest.

Priest is in a good spot, but mostly players are unable to play that class with decent winrate.

HSReplay tell us that is the worst class after shaman. Vicious syndicate tell us that control priest (best archetype for the class) is t3 at legend and diamond, and t4 on all ranks.

I enjoy playing priest and playing against priest, the winrate isn’t problematic and even the popularity isn’t problematic.

So for me is only a rant, whitout any reason behind.

Quote from sneakytoddman >>

Here's a simple idea that could have a significant impact on the enjoyment of hearthstone, and speed it up a bit: Draw your card at the END of your turn instead of the start.

There are at least two major benefits:

1. You plan out your turn during your OPPONENTS turn, giving you more to do than just watch your opponent play.

2. Your own turn will go faster, because of #1, speeding up the whole game.

I can't think of any real downside, other than missing the "thrill" (or disappointment) of a great (or terrible) top-deck.

Thoughts?

 1) We already plan our turn during our opponent’s turn, so even 2 isn’t really a good point.

RantPwn

Quote from Skyi101 >>

Quote from Pas >>

Quote from Grubelmonster >>

At least the first 4 turns shouldn`t  be longer than 15 secs. I played several times with control to legend and even with a control deck there is no need to have longer turns. You have enough time to think about your turns while the enemy have his turn.

 Normally aggro decks require more time in the first few turns than control deck.

 Yep, spewing your hand takes a lot more thought? Specially in an agro heavy meta with consistent t4/5 wins.

Overselling hard today.

To go face or not to go face, that is the question! Good sir me thinks, you thinketh too much!

 I’m a priest player and I play standard... so I don’t oversell and I don’t see this phantomatic aggro heavy meta with consistent t4/5 wins.

Quote from Grubelmonster >>

At least the first 4 turns shouldn`t  be longer than 15 secs. I played several times with control to legend and even with a control deck there is no need to have longer turns. You have enough time to think about your turns while the enemy have his turn.

 Normally aggro decks require more time in the first few turns than control deck.