Hearthpwn

Quote from Jomakaii >>

Not worth as the win condition edges at danger zone. The payoff with 2 health boards is weak against too many board clears and even if it becomes good a ready neutral tech card in the core set will effectively disable it ie. Barron Geddon. More so with N'zoth some decks can easily fit in an elemental for resurrection.

It may require a few more expansions/mini set to make self mill/infliction archetype work like how bliz slowly add new stuff to make no minion mage meta and compatible. Mage finally got their identity as spell masters and Warlock may one day get it's identity as self infliction terrorists.  Just not yet in Barrens. 

Neeru really isn't a particularly important part of the deck. In the vast majority of matchups you just win by exhausting their resources and healing up with Blood Shard Bristleback. And in the slower games Lord Jaraxxus is the more relevant win condition. For every five games I win, I'd be surprised if I even played Neeru in more than 1 of them.

Yeah, hot garbage. I'm curious about Blizzard's philosophy in regards to tribes that can't win a lobby. I mean in theory their average placement could still be similar if they were a really consistent 3rd-6th finisher. But is that something Blizzard wants in the game? It's not particularly fun and that low variance play seems like something that only rating-obsessed try-hards would pursue.

Though there is something to be said for Wrath Weaver as an early game carry...

I think it protects your board if you're playing a deck that runs mostly low HP minions (like secret Paladin). Low damage AOE becomes much less appealing for your opponent.

Conversely if you're playing a deck like control Warlock that really doesn't have anything to do in the mid-game, it can serve as a soft taunt and buy you an extra turn to get to your Twisting Nether and powerful late game stuff.

Like I said, it has to fit into your gameplan. I think early on streamers were just plugging into every deck because it generally gets value, but it didn't always make sense.

tech card bad.

Especially in a diverse meta like this. There's not enough weapon presence to really justify ooze. There are probably enough secrets to warrant some tech there, but the current secret tech is just awful. There's not enough combo to warrant hand disruption. The only viable "tech" card imo is Ogremancer, and that's because it's just an all-around good card. But even then, you don't want to force it; it needs to fit what your deck does and not replace a 5-drop more relevant to your win condition.

Nothing based on his followup. But I think your best out there would be if you had Runed Orb in hand (not sure if you play it) to take out a 3/2 and fish for Flame Ward. You take 9 damage, but maybe have a chance to stabilize while he rebuilds. Volcanic Potion would be a decent discover, too, though you're dead if he finds another +1/+1 buff.

But fishing for discover options isn't really viable in wild given how many spells are in the pool, so you're just boned 99.9% of the time when he draws the nuts like that.

Quote from TwistedCardmaster >>

Quote from JoeByeDon >>

Quote from TwistedCardmaster >>

I'd say that Warlock is so popular also because there are not many control archetypes to choose from right now. Basically you can play Priest, Warlock or Warrior and that's it. Out of the three, Warlock seems to be the most interesting, despite being probably the worst.

 That’s interesting, because I think the exact opposite. Control warlock is one of the most boring & linear decks in the game, IMO. Nearly every game seems to play out exactly the same way. I find priest & warrior FAR more interesting & fun to play, regardless of win rates. Obviously, this is all subjective, but warlock is probably last on the list of current decks I’d want to ladder with.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but I think that majority of players wouldn't agree with you. Priest's and Warrior's strategy is to sit down, remove every threat and heal / armor up until fatigue, while Warlock at least has some pro-active win conditions (Jaraxxus, Tickatus, Envoy) and (unlike Priest with tons of random generation) he has to manage his resources to survive. I'm not saying he's harder to play or anything, but I'm sure that he's more interesting for most people.

Priest has discover for days, though. Generally speaking it's fun to play cards that didn't start in your deck, and Priest will generate 15+ over the course of a long game between Renew, Draconic Studies (which has a fairly interesting pool), Scorpid, and whatever additional card generation that those yield.

Nope. It's the worst class in the meta by a significant gap. It has no win condition as a control deck and no ability to generate value. All of its discoverable options are reactive removal spells. It doesn't have the card draw to support something like C'thun. Its minion-based options like Murloc and Elemental aren't sticky enough to beat anybody with removal. The only moderately successful archetypes involve spell damage and/or doomhammer, but at their absolute best you're giving up 10+% winrate relative to playing a legitimate face deck like spell mage or hunter (or hell, even weapon rogue).

I don't think so. But more importantly, is she really that fun? It's certainly a powerful hero power, but it just doesn't strike me as a particularly interesting way to play the game. It's essentially just an early game curve-smoother like Yogg-Saron, but with a little more utility and usefulness in the late game.

Quote from RepoMan0077 >>

Quote from TallStranger >>

Quote from Andrei2007 >>

A quote from Vicious Syndicate: "We can’t remember a deck that was as weak as Control Warlock yet remained this popular. The persistence of the player base is indicative of two things: 1. It’s perceived to be far more powerful than it actually is 2. It’s enjoyed by many players."

 I honestly think a lot of it is because people get all giddy when they burn 5 of their opponent's cards, thinking that doing so is somehow debilitating. (And, similarly, people on the receiving end flip out when 5 of their cards get burned, so they rage quit.) Sure, if a particularly important card/ your win condition gets burned, that's a problem. But most competent players can deal with the loss of 5 random cards.

If people would just realize that (for most decks) burning 5 random cards doesn't really matter, I think the whole Tickatus frenzy would die down. Jaraxxus is much, much more powerful than Tick.

 It’s almost always more than 5 cards burned. It’s usually 10 cards. Tell me, how often can you pull out a win with 10 cards burned and only 1-2 cards left in your deck? 🔥 

 welp, as long as one of them is Neeru Fireblade. :P

I think the soul shard/corrupt package just isn't all that well-suited to this meta. The inability to control your healing means you autolose against Mage, Hunter, and decks like weapon rogue and spell shaman. I think you'd be much better off playing mill warlock right now. Blood Shard Bristleback is an absolutely amazing card in 90% of your matchups right now, and Soul Rend provides the much needed mid game removal that regular control lock lacks (absolutely essential against token Druid). Altar of Fire is a great Oh My Yogg trigger to allow your removal through, as well.

It has the same ability to dominate priest, it handles face damage decks much better, and it's not significantly worst against aggro decks, imo. It gets worked by lifesteal DH and Celestial Druid, but so does regular control lock and the Altar of Fires at least give you a non-zero chance to burn key combo pieces before they're drawn.

Quote from emkarab >>

People who claim Warlock is great probably never played it seriously. They never show how they do on ladder with this class, nobody can say they achieved legend with it. They just make up "good" strategies they never tried.

Warlock has no burst potential, no serious mana cheating, they just have good cards, but they play 1-2 cards turn 6, when rogue or mage play 10. That's the problem. You can leave few warlock minions on board and you won't be dead next turn like you will against any good class - hunter, rogue, paladin, mage

It's a control class... It doesn't need those things. You could make a case that the standard version doesn't have consistent enough healing or mid game removal (though that's solved by playing mill warlock). But it it has enough control tools to deal with faster decks, it beats other control decks in fatigue, and it at least has a chance to beat combo if you have a little luck on your card burn.

It's a good deck as long as the meta isn't 40% spell mage and face hunter. So let's see how things shake out over the next week or two.

Quote from CaptKnucklez42 >>

Quote from Carlsberg >>

The Hysteria nerf was not needed. Only way priest can fight for early board. 

Hysteria nerf was about as dumb as not touching Incanter's Flow. Just made zero sense. It's not like Warlock or Priest were locking games down with it. Priest needed it more than anything to maintain what success they are capable of. Warlock was just...well irrelevant with or without it. SMH.

You're basing it off of the previous meta, though. You have to account for how the deck will fare when its bad matchups are weakened or see less play.

Priest is in a dangerous place because there's not much viable combo deck representation out there right now. Really the only things keeping the deck in check are spell mage and warlock. Spell Mage got another nerf, and Warlock is long overdue to see its play rate drop to be more in line with its power level. Meanwhile secret pally got hit with a couple of nerfs that could swing the matchup to favorable for the Priest as well.

We'll see how things shake out, but I think it was a good anticipatory nerf, at least in regards to Priest. Maybe Warlock didn't deserve it, but I suppose that's the peril of dual class cards.

Quote from TwistedCardmaster >>

Quote from OverholtNA >> 

Out of curiosity, which matchups does Kazakus help you in as a Warlock?

It was great in all tempo matchups. Playing like 2x 5/5 with taunt, divine shield, lifesteal or stealth was huge, too much for Paladin, Hunter or Warrior to just ignire and go face. You could also have poison + damage (for instant mass removal), lifesteal + damage (for instant heal), freeze (for stale), buff for your other minions (great with taunts on board), spell damage (awesome with removals) or even card draw. Just an overall outstanding card.

Definitely a great card. I just question whether it's really needed in those matchups. You're not using it to pressure; you're using it to heal, remove, or force trades generally. There are other cards than can serve a similar function. And with the Crabrider nerf, I think you'll generally have an easier time removing early on and have less trouble stabilizing late game.

Out of curiosity, which matchups does Kazakus help you in as a Warlock?

Quote from Oddling77 >>

While i don't disagree with all the points, I have to be honest and say that through several hundred games since Hysteria has been around I don't think i've used it on turn 3 THAT often. You use yours that often on turn 3?

 Nope. Unless there was enough attack on board to kill a Crabrider. The real nerf is in the Kazakus anti-synergy.