Hearthpwn

Quote from pacaholic >>

I think the bigger issue is people arent very intelligent. I tried playing with Lorewalker Cho and GIVING them Oh My Yogg right before death, they STILL dont even try.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. 99% of the players probably don’t even know this achievement exists, while the other 1% don’t care if the opponent gets it or not.

Quote from SinAscendant >>

Quote from MoonUnit >>

It’s too consistent and too relentless for a format where aggro is weak. 4 copies of the weapon to mulligan for and up to 8 charges is too tenacious for most control decks to handle without heavy, heavy weapon tech. If there was more in the way of viable aggro to keep it honest, it wouldn’t be so problematic, just a midrange control killer with an exploitable weakness like it should be. Unfortunately the most reliable aggro deck we have at our disposal now is zoolock, which feeds the fleshshaper/giant engine and is a 50/50 at best, making it ultra safe to ladder with Shaman.

As I’ve said before, if the best ladder strategy is to run double Stickyfinger in every deck, there is a problem with the meta.

 Except the reason you run Stickyfinger is because the top FIVE classes in the meta are all weapon classes rn. After Shaman comes Pally with Truesilver, Hunter who has a legend weapon rn, Rogue who most are running quest, and DH who run multiple weaps. 

 

6/10 classes have good stealable weapons rn.

Let’s not pretend we are running Stickyfingers to steal a Truesilver Champion. We run them because  Boggspine is the Evolve Shaman win condition, and stealing it can also deny their hoard pillager. While I do agree that weapons in general are a touch overpowered right now, weapon tech isn’t required to beat these other classes like it is Shaman. I don’t know where on earth you’re running into quest Rogues right now either?

Not even mad but I’ve just lost to a turn 1 Coin Foxy Step Foxy into 8/8 Edwin lmao.

Why are people hating on this guy? He makes a completely sound and logical point. Sure, it isn’t having an enormous impact on the game or affecting balance, but when you’re developing software at this level, you’re supposed to be striving for a polished product, not some half-assed, lazily coded hash with obvious issues. Programming standards in games has been slipping in recent years, everything always feels rushed. I get now that everything is online you can hotfix and patch things, but version 1.0 should still be a finished product, and not just rushed out for the sake of meeting an arbitrary deadline.

It’s too consistent and too relentless for a format where aggro is weak. 4 copies of the weapon to mulligan for and up to 8 charges is too tenacious for most control decks to handle without heavy, heavy weapon tech. If there was more in the way of viable aggro to keep it honest, it wouldn’t be so problematic, just a midrange control killer with an exploitable weakness like it should be. Unfortunately the most reliable aggro deck we have at our disposal now is zoolock, which feeds the fleshshaper/giant engine and is a 50/50 at best, making it ultra safe to ladder with Shaman.

As I’ve said before, if the best ladder strategy is to run double Stickyfinger in every deck, there is a problem with the meta.

Players will do literally anything but get better at this game.

Evolve Shaman has just one matchup with a win rate below 50% (aggro Demon Hunter, which is quite poor against the rest of the field and as such is not very popular) so let’s not pretend it isn’t a problem. I do think there is an element of players not understanding how to play out their early turns against Shaman but it is still clearly very oppressive.

Stickyfinger is amazing tech for the matchup but if the most effective meta call is to run 2 copies of Stickyfinger in every deck, then there is quite obviously a problem. What’s worse is that other less oppressive decks that rely on weapons to win get caught in the crossfire here, while the Shaman can still beat you down through its linear consistency and relentless tide of weapon charges thanks to Hoard Pillager.

I don’t think making knuckles a battlecry is the right answer, because you’re turning 8 charges into 2 and forcing them to set up a board before playing the weapon. This is over the top and not a fair way to balance the card. Making it a 4/1 is interesting but it would have to have a mana cost reduction to avoid being completely redundant. The optimal move is probably a simple mana cost adjustment to 6 to give players more time to set up a defence.

I am generally against nerfing cards when I believe the counterplay is “get better,” but this deck has the highest play rate AND win rate in top legend, so can’t really argue that in this case.

Tick is a cool addition to the game and doesn’t seem problematic. He gives slow Warlocks an out to OTK combos but his %s are weighed quite well. Most combo decks at the moment don’t require ALL of their combo pieces to kill you from 30, and Warlock typically sits well below 30, so milling off one or two combo pieces is not a guaranteed victory unless it is the key legendary (Il’gynoth, ETC or Silas). If Tick Warlock becomes popular you can offset this matchup by running multiple copies of non-legendary combo pieces and more draw power at the expense of some removal or other anti aggro tools. As deck building should be, you sacrifice %s in one matchup to gain them in another. Learning to mulligan appropriately against a Tick strategy will also improve your win rate here.

Aggro decks and midrange strategies like Paladin and Evolve Shaman do no care for Tick because they typically end the game through pressure before his effects are felt, and it rarely comes down to a resource battle. The best he can do (if you even get the chance to use him) is kill off a couple of power cards, but these matchups usually come down to whether or not the Warlock can stabilise, not who runs out of cards first.

In control matchups he is a bit different but there are strategies you can use against him. In the mirror match you wait until the enemy plays a 7+ To corrupt him before playing out all your soul fragment cards in order to fill your deck with jank so he is less likely to mill your actual resources, and they have to think twice before playing him right away. C’thun decks will aim to hold the last piece with a draw card until they are deep enough to play it and draw C’thun on the same turn. The Warlock has to Tick and Yash really early in order to make “mill 10 random cards” better odds than waiting for C’thun to enter the deck (this is no different to getting nutted by aggro, it just happens sometimes). The only deck that really suffers against Tick is Priest. That’s not because Tick is unfair, it’s because Priest doesn’t have a proactive win condition, it just aims to survive and out-resource you. Priest struggles to pressure the warlock, so they can often just sit and play out their game plan uncontested, but there is counter play to Tick. Cycling Lazul with Raise Dead to access your own Tick, or multiple copies of him, playing Illucia before they corrupt Tick and self-milling 5 while you control their deck, or even playing it corrupted to deny it from their Yash pool (the single use isn’t going to fatigue you first against a life-tapping Warlock). Try and think of out the box strategies rather than just admitting defeat against this sort of card, and if Tick is still a problem after trying all these things, you can put Elysiana in your deck.

If the Warlock player is running demonic studies/felosophy and Ticks you 8 times in a game, sorry pal, they out-greeded you (that’s how control mirrors work) but at least you can revel in the fact that you will be their only victory all day.

Quote from mulluk >>

Quote from czapejro >>

Quote from KillJack >>

Quote from mulluk >>

I build a nice 100% untypical priest deck no one had on their radar. And it worked fine. Even DH struggled. But then the matchmaker learned and i got matched against cheating druids over and over, making my deck useless, so i had to revert back to my good old Priest everyone hates. They DONT want us to play creative decks.

 ‘Creative’ decks use cards that aren’t as powerful and thus are less common for someone to keep in their collection which means that if someone wanted to make them, they’d need dust to craft the cards for them, so I imagine Blizzard was happy you were playing a creative deck and in reality, the deck just wasn’t as good as your initial win rate had you believe.

 so much this

Mr Mulluk, most likely was matched initially with someone of lower MMR like himself if he was goofing around with custom made decks(just an assumption, but highly probable one) and once the deck won a few games his MMR shot up a bit and he got matched with more meta deck which proved to be an actual killer for his deck

I find it kinda amazing how people defy the actual science behind the matchmaking and MMR and quickly just jump to conclusion of "I won first few games then my deck is good and game didn't like it so it matched me with counter decks to make me lose" :facepalm:

I'm not really sure who in their right mind would program their game to intentionally make players lose their games, the game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, and people in general like winning, that's what keeps them coming back to the experience

 Discussing with biased people like you is useless, so i wont go into much detail, but i get matched against all the meta decks on a regular basis. And i won against those meta decks with this new deck, like i won against them with my other selfmade decks. I dont play copy and paste decks. The only time i play one is to "learn" my enemy. Never for laddering. Thus sad, like the matchmaker kicks in if you won too often, it kicked in this time too. 9 wins out of 10. But this time, the matchmaker went havoc, since there is no real counterdeck to my own deck, so i got matched against those cheating druids over and over. Like i said, it has no use to discuss with people like you. In your small fanboi world meta is everything and selfmade decks are "inferior". But guess what, someone created meta decks too. Be happy in your manipulated world.

Its likely that the issue wasn't the decks you were facing but the caliber of player. If you win a bunch of games, your match maker rating will increase, and you will be pitted against players of a similar rating. The more successful you are, the better your opponents become. Bare in mind an idiot wielding a tier 1 deck is still an idiot. Decks can't beat you by themselves, and once you start facing better players, your win rate will naturally decrease because your opponents will make more correct decisions, leading to more defeats for you largely irrespective of the decks they are playing.

The matchmaker manipulation theory is 100% confirmation bias. You absolutely couldn't get away with that kind of algorithm going undetected when hundreds of thousands of people tune into Hearthstone streams daily watch people grind ladder for hours at a time.

It depends on your MMR. This hidden figure impacts how many ranks you gain/lose for a win/loss. I have gone from 7,000 to 200 in one drunk evening of aggro rogue before so assuming your MMR isn't in the toilet, it can only take around +15 or so.

Also the 1 mana hero power that synergises with half of their cards means they rarely suffer from awkward turns.

The class itself is problematic because the cards have all been designed with purpose. Compare DH to the classic/basic sets of every other class and you can see it, almost every single card is decent. This makes sense because the developers had a lot more experience behind them when they created the class but it is causing issues in the game.

If you look at the three decks the class has produced, the biggest offenders across the lists appear to be Skull of Gul'Dan and Twin Slice.

Glory's Rogue deck was nutty af, but you can't really pin that on a single card (although VanCleef is an arguable culprit). Foxy Fraud and Swindle engine is something though.

Demon Hunter is still a bit of a mess right now, its like the developers forgot how to make pack filler cards when they built DH, they barely have an unplayable card. Skull of Gul'Dan is always going to be a problem so I guess that's a good place to start.

This topic was worse than rate my plate.

Quote from alecia2 >>

Just played against Norrell on the EU. Roped every turn, from turn 1 until turn 9 ... where I won the game.

Literally waited until 1-2 seconds before the timer ... every turn. What a twat

 Life Coach cosplayer.