Hearthpwn

Quote from GibreelFury >>

 

Don't we all agree though that in a control/combo matchup (in combination with y'shaarj, of course) its effect is unfair and op, reducing the opponent's chances to win by roughly 75/80%?!?

Control players are refusing to main deck Elysiana, so no, this is not unfair in the slightest. A direct card for card counter exists and players are not using it. I laddered to legend this month exclusively with a control Shaman list that had no win condition except for fatigue. If Tickatus missed my Elysiana (he’s effectively only 1 in 6 to hit her each time he’s played and I would keep her in the mulligan and play double far sight to get to her ASAP), they had absolutely no chance to win because I could clear every single board and had up to 4 heals for 20 per game. As my deck was -10 +10, they fatigued sooner due to offset from life tap. I was more than happy with a 70% win rate in this matchup.

Warlock cannot have a late game control deck unless it has this kind of option, because life tap is counterintuitive to the deck’s win condition so without cards like Azari and Tickatus, warlock is limited to one old, shitty and boring aggro concept that they’ve had since the dawn of hearthstone (since apparently devs won’t allow handlock or any other decent midrange warlock deck to happen again for some weird reason).

As far as beating combo decks goes, I have actually always loved combo breakers in hearthstone because there is such limited disruption available. I like that Tickatus has a pretty much even shot at disrupting a combo. When you actually run the numbers, he is a lot fairer than Mindrender Illucia, who gives you significantly more control over your opponent’s win condition, and a significantly higher chance to hit it (especially as most current combos have a required set up or conditions that must be met before they work, you often know exactly when to play her, while Tickatus is mostly just random, late game vs C’thun being a rare exception).

What I would like to see, rather than a nerf to Tickatus, is a skill-based counterplay card released when Elysiana rotates (something akin to Dirty Rat from MSoG) as I do think he will become a toxic presence once his hard negator is removed.

Yeah she is a must in slower Warlock builds right now.

Quote from Zonta >>

First it’s not a joke. I’m assuming you are a warlock Tickatus player so I understand why you are defending it. Not everybody faces aggressive zoolocks, rogues or DH. I think the game matches you differently. You say that Thijs can beat gala warlocks but he does not represent the casual or normal player. Not everybody is a pro player.

My argument was for us players that play Control or combo decks. There is no deny that Tickatus as of now, is a problem for control and combo decks now and in future expansions. 

BTW, I play standard. I don’t know about wild.

Unfortunately you can’t balance a game around the casual player base, because you will completely unbalance the game at a competitive/professional level. If a card appears overpowered, but is countered by more skilful play, nerfing it is not the correct decision.

Tickatus is an awkward card for some decks to deal with, but if you do the maths, it isn’t remotely favoured to cause an auto-win against most of the current combo decks. This is due to the fact that most of these decks are free to run multiple copies of the majority of their combo pieces, while hitting the key legendary (which you would absolutely keep in your mulligan against Warlock if you had it) is 1 in 3 at best assuming you can play Tickatus twice before 20 cards are drawn, which is not guaranteed.

If you’re laddering with a control deck that’s designed to win the game by grinding your opponent out, and Tickatus Warlocks are popular at your elo, PUT ELYSIANA IN THE DECK. Once again the Warlock is no better than 1 in 3 to mill her and she completely negates 2x Tickatus, so if your deck has an inherent weakness to having its cards milled, maybe fucking tech against it.

DH otk can deal 96 with the full combo and is faster than any Warrior otk.

Quote from Spookey_parkinsons >>

The data they used in that article was from 2014 so wild wasn’t around then 

 Yeah I think it’s way higher now. Since the new tier system in ranked it has become woefully easy to reach legend.

Vulpera definitely feels like the worst card in the deck. I’ve been toying with the idea of replacing one or both with Lightning Bloom or Frost Shock. Generally if I lose, it’s because the opponent got too much tempo too quickly and I didn’t have mana for a board wipe.

Lightning Bloom would allow Tidal Wave as soon as turn 6 (or 5 with coin), or a much earlier Earthquake/Lurker. This comes at the expense of an overloaded turn but probably nullifies enough damage to turn the tables the majority of the time.

Frost Shock is a similar concept but goes about it in a different way. We can use it to freeze the Evolve Shaman’s face going into their weapon turn while we look for Stickyfinger or wait for mana, or freeze a Rogue’s Questing Adventurer Or Edwin while we look for Hex etc.

Quote from Goozmania >>

They ban classes in tournaments, the most competitive form of play.

Tournaments are a completely different environment to ladder. Each player has a predetermined number of decks to use in a “best of x” setting. Strategies are designed with the ban in mind and crucially, the players still have to actually face each other. If two players meet in a tournament, they can’t be like “nah don’t fancy that” and ban the other player entirely, which is what a ban system in a bo1 setting effectively achieves.

Implementing bans in a solo queue system simply means you cannot face players who are using your banned deck at all, which further reinforces that you will have to use the best deck to climb, since players using it will ban its counter, while everyone playing lower tier decks will ban it out, and leave the mirror match the only option to ascend the ranks. It will destroy diversity and meta evolution at top legend, where most of the innovation occurs.

Additionally the only way to implement this would be a class ban, which would absolutely suck. Using myself as an example here, I laddered bronze 10 to legend this month exclusively with Control/Fatigue Shaman. This deck isn’t keeping anyone up at night but I would be banned out by half the server because evolve Shaman is out there stealing away people’s kids and wives on a daily basis, meaning I would probably be stuck facing nothing but Evolve Shamans and Aggro Demon Hunters for my whole legend grind.

I could see this maybe being allowed for casual mode, or bronze and silver divisions only on ladder, but it still takes away more from the experience than it adds.

They did try something like this in tournaments before with specialist format, but it just created an extremely narrow Rock Paper Scissors meta. Week 1 of the first season of Grandmasters in 2019 was control Warrior mirror matches all week and it was excruciating. While I like the idea of being able to mitigate some of your poor matchups with a side deck, Hearthstone doesn’t feel like the right game for it given how effective the tech cards can be at dismantling entire strategies, which effectively squeezes a lot of decks out of the meta since everyone can just back pocket some hard tech against them.

If you’re playing a heavy control list without Archivist Elysiana right now you deserve everything you get. If you’re playing with her, it can make for a pretty exciting game. I laddered to legend exclusively with control/fatigue Shaman this month and this matchup is quite favourable but gets very interesting if things go badly for you. The standard list can drop Tickatus 2 times* and if they miss Elysiana you just absorb all their cards with removal and totally obliterate them. They can mill 10 cards out of your 30, so 33% at best to hit her, but this isn’t taking into consideration the fact that you hard mulligan for her, or the fact that the earliest they can realistically play the first copy (corrupted) is turn 7. This also doesn’t consider that if Tickatus or Y’Shaarj are near the bottom of their deck, they have to lifetap themselves near enough into fatigue before losing cards from your deck even becomes a concern. If they burn Elysiana the game is on, and if it was sufficiently late into the game and they are deep in their deck, the resource/heal battle becomes hyper intense and while you are no longer favoured, it is not impossible by any means.

If this kind of matchup is “feel bad” for you, you may want to consider not playing control decks. These are the matchups that force you to think outside the box, and your ability to do so effectively will decide whether your rank improves or stagnates. You can’t expect to just hose aggro decks all day and have an easy life, or everyone would play nothing but control.

*I know it’s possible to acquire more copies through felosophy and rng garbage but these lists are simply not competitive and if you lose to them you just take it on the chin.

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Apparently "mouth breather" has joined the inconsistent lexicon of terms that can draw a warning from moderators on this forum.

I can't keep up anymore.  The last two threads I was involved in have at least six pages each in which I am called every name in the book, mostly in posts that don't have a point to them.  But I'm sure each one of those posts drew a warning as well.  Except not, because they were made by the same two people over and over and over.

Whatevs, sorry to the 12 people who upvoted.  You are apparently promoting "flaming".

From now on, I will only speak in Zeddy-level euphemism.

 Sounds like something a mouth breather would say 🧐

Quote from Pherosizm >>

Quote from IceD34ler >>

Quote from fjl93 >>

Such a strange interaction lol. They really should fix these things and stop putting excuses. They won't do this since it's complicated and they probably have better things to do (cofcof win money cofcof). This kind of strange synergies deny such wonderful lethal or setup scenarios haha.

While I agree that the wording is often times not clear enough, it's a very core game design to Hearthstone and necessary for the game to work properly (=balanced regarding Midrange to Control).

Another interesting interaction is Baron Geddon + Shaman Totems. If a Healing Totem is on your board and was summoned AFTER Baron Geddon, the Baron will not destroy your Totems since the Heaing Totem will heal them back to 1 health. This only works once though, since there is minus damage in the game. That means that the second time Baron Geddon does deal 2 damage to your 1 health totems, they will be at -1 health. Healing Totem heals back 1, still destroying everything since they are now at 0 health.

 I find these interactions so very interesting... the order of play is important, but they both still activate and combine their effects to resolve.

So in the same way, if you were at 2 HP and had a Baron Geddon on board, then play a Sandhoof Waterbearer, you could potentially take the lethal damage and then also heal back to 5 HP?

Yeah this is correct. It’s a similar concept to swinging into a minion and killing yourself with a lifesteal weapon but surviving, or life tapping into a soul fragment when at 1 or 2 life. Certain effects, including end of turn effects, resolve in a sequence and must all resolve before any other effects are able to activate (in the latter example, you could also draw a bomb for lethal, and then one or multiple soul fragments to survive).

You can test this easily by playing 2 doomsayers at once. Both will explode before any minions are killed, and they will only clear one board between them, ignoring anything summoned by a deathrattle.

Revolving into a copy of itself is a known possible outcome and working as intended. The random battle damage indicator lingering on the card is a visual bug (unrelated to revolve), which can be resolved by hovering your mouse over the card.

Quote from Nimehte >>

I think those kind of deck exist because of how stupidly ranked mod designed. You want to reach legend? You have to use most efficient deck

I mean I just hit legend in 2 days exclusively using a control/fatigue Shaman with 6 AoEs and 0 weapons so I don’t think this is true at all.

Quote from TaurenHomie >>

Had a guy the other day summoning 2 Desert Obelisk against me

Disaster shadowstep waiting to happen.

I’m interested in compiling the best and worst minion combinations you’ve seen come out of Jandice Barov.

I’ll kick things off with a game i was spectating yesterday, in which my friend’s Rogue opponent coined out Jandice on turn 4 on an empty board and rolled Twilight Runner and Tundra Rhino. Developed 9/8 worth of stats, sent 7 damage face and drew 2 cards for 5 mana.

What are some of your favourite Jandice RNG moments?