Hearthpwn

I think that guy was trolling you. Even at 7 wins, the guy I played against had the same score as me.

No way.

For some reason, 0 wins seems to be where my most difficult matches are. I average 7-8 wins in arena and the 2 loses generally come from the first few games rather than the later. I've had a rogue deck that went 0-2 before I took it to twelve wins.

Even on my current deck this is the case. I went 0-2 initially. Those 2 loses were against pretty insane decks/curves but now, I am on 11-2. This is the list.

Quote from Blue_Banana_whotookthisname >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

Quote from ZenthonTitan >>

The trouble with warriors is that they do not actually have a good form of AOE board clearing. The least they have are the likes of Whirlwind, Revenge and Ravaging Ghoul, but those would still leave bigger minions on the board and would be hard to remove because of the control warrior's slow play. Patron warriors are a relatively more aggressive deck which would feature more early game threats, so it can effectively deal with whatever comes from the opponent. Brawl is a fun game changer that can reward or punish you depending on how your luck runs.

So? Most other classes don't have great aoe either. I believe warrior actually already has one of the best aoes in the game in form of ravaging ghoul. The card just perfectly synergises with the warrior deck (aco, execute, patron, frothing and ect.). 1 damage aoe is really all they need to beat aggressive decks because they have the tools to control the board such that 1 damage will suffice.

Also, I could bring up the case of rogue. Rogue is very similar to warrior as they have no good aoe but very good single target removal. Yet, rogue does not need a brawl?

Quote from CorvenusHS >>

Yes, Warriors should lose the only board clear we have, great idea genius!

Why not also remove all "Whirlwind" effects from our class cards so we cannot activate our own minions and spells.

 Board clears aren't limited to aoe. For example, execute and bash are board clear cards so I don't see the point you are trying to make.

Also, why must warrior have hard aoe? Tempo warrior and patron are archetypes which do not feature them. Removing brawl won't delete warrior off the earth.

I also argue control warrior can function without brawl. They would just have to add cards that actively contest the board like most other classes. Reno warrior already functions with 1 brawl.

If control warrior was given consecration (a supposedly good aoe), would they run brawl or consecration? They would still run brawl as the consecration would be useless. For consecration on its own to be useful, the player must already be contesting the board.

Quote from Remster101 >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

 All AOEs punish for committing to the board.

You can also make the exact same argument for almost every control deck, especially something like a freeze mage.

You seem to have misunderstood the patron nerf. It was lack of interactivity combined with a massive OTK that was more consistent the more you committed.

 The difference with other aoes like holy nova and hellfire is that the class is still required to interact with the board. Brawl is different. Warriors can sit and wait all day. Imagine if warrior had hellfire instead. Would they be just sitting there and doing nothing?

Brawl is a card that defies the philosophy of the game. Accordingly to blizzard,

"to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/19288409377

Quote from greatestStory >>

How about removing Flamestrike, Explosive Trap, Consecration, Hellfire and Swipe?

.....just get rid of all removal and AOE cards.

I am not sure if this thread is even serious? 

 Read the above.

Quote from CorvenusHS >>

Quote from greatestStory >>

 

I am not sure if this thread is even serious? 

 It's not, the small things give it away "E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest." lol.

I am not sure if you're serious. Have you ever seen the new patron?

Quote from crenian >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

 yeah sure.

remove Twisting Nether because It allows Warlock to get away with not actively contesting the board too.

remove Equality + Consecration because It allows Paladin to get away with not actively contesting the board too.

Patron Warrior can contest early game because they have board to dealt with. You want to kill the only engine for Control Warrior to survive a big board? or do you want to make All Warrior gameplay becoming Patron or Aggro? 

 While writing this thread, I thought of mentioning twisting. I also think that card should removed for the same reasons. I didn't mention it because I thought it would be unnecessary.

Doom will never see play but if it does, yes it should be removed.

The big board spawned exactly because the warrior did not contest the board enough. Why should he get a free ticket out of it? Druid cannot survive or clear a big board. Yet, why doesn't druid have brawl? The answer is because they have the tools to contest the board but so does warrior. You're point is a moot one.

Quote from Sylicas >>

Brawl punishes Aggro decks hard if they have it. It allows them to make a comeback from behind, which is by all means appreciated.

For Control decks, not as much. Midrange, it's a mix of the two.

People asking for nerfs to Brawl generally reveal what type of players they are. :P 

 I am not asking for a nerf but.

_

The difference with doomsayer+frost nova is that it can be countered. It still allows the opponent to interact with the board.

The difference with pyro equality and brawl is the classes that play them. Palladins do not have as good draw as warrior. The combo is much rarer.

 

"The big board spawned exactly because the warrior did not contest the board enough."

No, it spawned because the other player misplayed by overcommitting.

Quote from Christonya >>

That's like saying: "Should all board wipe cards in the game be removed?" The answer is of course: No. Brawl is a card that you have to play around, to avoid getting board wiped, if the warrior falls behind on the board, and his opponent isn't an idiot an as such doesn't commit a lot to the board, brawl gets less value. It's like the old hand lock vs warrior games, where the hand lock would get 1 8/8 out and just camp it since committing more played into brawl.

Quote from SentinelDD >>

Definately not. Why would you remove brawl?

Quote from ZenthonTitan >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

Quote from ZenthonTitan >>

The trouble with warriors is that they do not actually have a good form of AOE board clearing. The least they have are the likes of Whirlwind, Revenge and Ravaging Ghoul, but those would still leave bigger minions on the board and would be hard to remove because of the control warrior's slow play. Patron warriors are a relatively more aggressive deck which would feature more early game threats, so it can effectively deal with whatever comes from the opponent. Brawl is a fun game changer that can reward or punish you depending on how your luck runs.

So? Most other classes don't have great aoe either. I believe warrior actually already has one of the best aoes in the game in form of ravaging ghoul. The card just perfectly synergises with the warrior deck (aco, execute, patron, frothing and ect.). 1 damage aoe is really all they need to beat aggressive decks because they have the tools to control the board such that 1 damage will suffice.

Also, I could bring up the case of rogue. Rogue is very similar to warrior as they have no good aoe but very good single target removal. Yet, rogue does not need a brawl?

Quote from CorvenusHS >>

Yes, Warriors should lose the only board clear we have, great idea genius!

Why not also remove all "Whirlwind" effects from our class cards so we cannot activate our own minions and spells.

 Board clears aren't limited to aoe. For example, execute and bash are board clear cards so I don't see the point you are trying to make.

Also, why must warrior have hard aoe? Tempo warrior and patron are archetypes which do not feature them. Removing brawl won't delete warrior off the earth.

I also argue control warrior can function without brawl. They would just have to add cards that actively contest the board like most other classes. Reno warrior already functions with 1 brawl.

If control warrior was given consecration (a supposedly good aoe), would they run brawl or consecration? They would still run brawl as the consecration would be useless. For consecration on its own to be useful, the player must already be contesting the board.

Quote from Remster101 >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

 All AOEs punish for committing to the board.

You can also make the exact same argument for almost every control deck, especially something like a freeze mage.

You seem to have misunderstood the patron nerf. It was lack of interactivity combined with a massive OTK that was more consistent the more you committed.

 The difference with other aoes like holy nova and hellfire is that the class is still required to interact with the board. Brawl is different. Warriors can sit and wait all day. Imagine if warrior had hellfire instead. Would they be just sitting there and doing nothing?

Brawl is a card that defies the philosophy of the game. Accordingly to blizzard,

"to stand by our overarching game philosophy that battles between minions and fighting for board control is what makes Hearthstone fun and compelling."

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/19288409377

Quote from greatestStory >>

How about removing Flamestrike, Explosive Trap, Consecration, Hellfire and Swipe?

.....just get rid of all removal and AOE cards.

I am not sure if this thread is even serious? 

 Read the above.

Quote from CorvenusHS >>

Quote from greatestStory >>

 

I am not sure if this thread is even serious? 

 It's not, the small things give it away "E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest." lol.

I am not sure if you're serious. Have you ever seen the new patron?

Quote from crenian >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

 yeah sure.

remove Twisting Nether because It allows Warlock to get away with not actively contesting the board too.

remove Equality + Consecration because It allows Paladin to get away with not actively contesting the board too.

Patron Warrior can contest early game because they have board to dealt with. You want to kill the only engine for Control Warrior to survive a big board? or do you want to make All Warrior gameplay becoming Patron or Aggro? 

 While writing this thread, I thought of mentioning twisting. I also think that card should removed for the same reasons. I didn't mention it because I thought it would be unnecessary.

Doom will never see play but if it does, yes it should be removed.

The big board spawned exactly because the warrior did not contest the board enough. Why should he get a free ticket out of it? Druid cannot survive or clear a big board. Yet, why doesn't druid have brawl? The answer is because they have the tools to contest the board but so does warrior. You're point is a moot one.

Quote from Sylicas >>

Brawl punishes Aggro decks hard if they have it. It allows them to make a comeback from behind, which is by all means appreciated.

For Control decks, not as much. Midrange, it's a mix of the two.

People asking for nerfs to Brawl generally reveal what type of players they are. :P 

 I am not asking for a nerf but.

_

The difference with doomsayer+frost nova is that it can be countered. It still allows the opponent to interact with the board.

The difference with pyro equality and brawl is the classes that play them. Palladins do not have as good draw as warrior. The combo is much rarer.

 

In order of your responses:

 

 1. How many copies of hard removal in a warrior deck do you play. Execute x2, Crush which no one plays. With Brawl at 2 in a deck, you would probably have 4 Actual removal cards, 2 which need a Ping, the other that do not guarantee a good outcome. Rogue's removal is really more on bouncing and they use combos to make extremely big minions, while they have an AOE in the form of Vanish, which can sometimes play your opponent into destroying his own minions when their hand is full. Other than that, i think that because Rogue lost Blade Flurry, it has not been as viable outside of the Miracle burst rogue version.

 

2. I believe the definition of being a board clear means that there are multiple minions on the board and you have a single card or combination that removes everything. Control warriors cannot function without brawl, because they are not playing any early drops and would tend to lose the board to shamans especially, with the new Flamewreath faceless and the other early game bursts that can happen by the 5th turn. Because a Control warrior would run mostly large minions, they would be the ones to eke out survival options in the early game and drop large minions nearer to the end.

 

3. Refer to number 2

 

4. As i mentioned in my first post, Patron warrior is an aggressive variant of the warrior class and is bent on flooding the board at turn 6, which means that the earlier game it would be more of presenting the opponent with a lot of damage to the face while contesting the board with weapons. There is no cheap and effective way to get rid of patrons because of the multiplication when damaged, that is why the Patron warrior does not need any Brawl

 

5. The thing about druid is that they are able to ramp up to find their minions early, like Druid of the Claw and dark arakoa, while they also play early minions to contest the board early. The earliest drop most commonly played by the control warrior would probably be the Acolyte of Pain, which can hardly stand up to the minions many classes drop on turn 4. I agree that Warrior has the tools to contest the board, but most of them are in the late game.

 

6. Yes, paladins do not have much draw on their own and their board clears usually come in combinations. take into account that they have Powerful minions that can stop aggressive decks in their tracks like Tirion Fordring and combination RNG with Knife Juggler and any spells or powers that summon minions. The whole point of the paladin hero power is so that they can at least have something on the board to compensate for its lack of card draw.

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

The difference with other aoes like holy nova and hellfire is that the class is still required to interact with the board. Brawl is different. Warriors can sit and wait all day. Imagine if warrior had hellfire instead. Would they be just sitting there and doing nothing?

 

Yes, they would play exactly the same if they had hellfire. Hellfire actually incentivizes you to not interact with the board, so it promotes the same type of play that you are arguing against. Maybe that wasn't the best example to use.

 They could play the same but the play style would be ineffective. For example, would you sit and wait against a nzoth palladin or a renolock if you had a hellfire as CW? Hellfire would essentially be a dead card in these matchups.

It sounds like you've never played CW against nzoth paladin or renolock. Hellfire over brawl wouldn't drastically change the way that you play against them. Brawl is not super effective in those matchups if you are playing against a skilled player.

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

The difference with other aoes like holy nova and hellfire is that the class is still required to interact with the board. Brawl is different. Warriors can sit and wait all day. Imagine if warrior had hellfire instead. Would they be just sitting there and doing nothing?

 

Yes, they would play exactly the same if they had hellfire. Hellfire actually incentivizes you to not interact with the board, so it promotes the same type of play that you are arguing against. Maybe that wasn't the best example to use.

Quote from ZenthonTitan >>

The trouble with warriors is that they do not actually have a good form of AOE board clearing. The least they have are the likes of Whirlwind, Revenge and Ravaging Ghoul, but those would still leave bigger minions on the board and would be hard to remove because of the control warrior's slow play. Patron warriors are a relatively more aggressive deck which would feature more early game threats, so it can effectively deal with whatever comes from the opponent. Brawl is a fun game changer that can reward or punish you depending on how your luck runs.

Quote from CorvenusHS >>

Yes, Warriors should lose the only board clear we have, great idea genius!

Why not also remove all "Whirlwind" effects from our class cards so we cannot activate our own minions and spells.

Quote from Remster101 >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

 All AOEs punish for committing to the board.

You can also make the exact same argument for almost every control deck, especially something like a freeze mage.

You seem to have misunderstood the patron nerf. It was lack of interactivity combined with a massive OTK that was more consistent the more you committed.

Quote from greatestStory >>

How about removing Flamestrike, Explosive Trap, Consecration, Hellfire and Swipe?

.....just get rid of all removal and AOE cards.

I am not sure if this thread is even serious? 

Quote from CorvenusHS >>

Quote from greatestStory >>

 

I am not sure if this thread is even serious? 

 It's not, the small things give it away "E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest." lol.

Quote from crenian >>

Quote from MCFUser175154 >>

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

 yeah sure.

remove Twisting Nether because It allows Warlock to get away with not actively contesting the board too.

remove Equality + Consecration because It allows Paladin to get away with not actively contesting the board too.

Patron Warrior can contest early game because they have board to dealt with. You want to kill the only engine for Control Warrior to survive a big board? or do you want to make All Warrior gameplay becoming Patron or Aggro? 

Quote from Sylicas >>

Brawl punishes Aggro decks hard if they have it. It allows them to make a comeback from behind, which is by all means appreciated.

For Control decks, not as much. Midrange, it's a mix of the two.

People asking for nerfs to Brawl generally reveal what type of players they are. :P 

_

The difference with doomsayer+frost nova is that it can be countered. It still allows the opponent to interact with the board.

The difference with pyro equality and brawl is the classes that play them. Palladins do not have as good draw as warrior. The combo is much rarer.

I don't think the card is op. That's why I not asking for nerfs. I think the card is poorly designed. As in, it invites an uninteractive style of gameplay. It allows warriors to get away with not actively contesting the board. The card also punishes players for committing (sometimes you just don't have a choice) to the board. Doesn't this sound exactly like pre-nerf patron? Patron punished you for committing but at the same time you had to kill him before he killed you. Old patron was deleted so why not brawl as well? Warrior does not need brawl to exist. They have the tools to contest the early game. E.g. new patron warrior does not run brawl and can contest.

Lol, my old account I have in my signature got hacked. I've been playing on a new f2p account for 3 months. I've made it to rank 5 every season with garbage budget decks. I run a mech mage that has BOULDERFIST OGRE and no Dr boom. It's quite depressing actually.

Quote from Mister_Smith >>

Even if rng balanced out in the long run, it's possible to have exactly a 50% winrate and get exactly no where. For example, you get extremely unlucky for a game. Then, you get equally extremely lucky the next game. Repeat the cycle. Technically, luck has balanced out.

 

This statement completely ignores the fact that personal skill will always be a tool to mitigate any "bad luck" you might have and is also disregarding the fact that your opponent is just as much a "victim" of rng as you are. Just because you sometimes feel like having "bad luck" doesn't automatically mean that your opponent is better of. 

The human brain is simply scewed towards remembering the bad things that happen to us rather than the positive ones. You are not unlucky, not more or less than anyone else playing Hearthstone, RNG is inherently part of every TCG and that can not be changed. Learn to play better and you will find that "bad luck" is suddenly much less of a problem.

Quote from sokkeh >>

I live how everyone thinks cause they play 10 games and something happens to them it's statistically sound to say that the game is broken. Stop crying and play a game where there's no rng if you can't handle bad luck. 

I also think that being the most unlucky person in the world is a bit of an overstatement because of your saltiness. It's just a bloody game. It's not like you're dieing of a disease 

"l2p"

"manage your rng"

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, just watch the video and you will understand. I've made it somewhat enjoyable to watch.

All footage was collected within 1 hour of gameplay. Check the timer on bottom left.

Even if rng balanced out in the long run, it's possible to have exactly a 50% winrate and get exactly no where. For example, you get extremely unlucky for a game. Then, you get equally extremely lucky the next game. Repeat the cycle. Technically, luck has balanced out.

Because it leaves the strongest minion on the board.

I am at rank 6 currently. Games have just been bs rng.

Luck balances out?

You're just shit?

Why not experience it first hand and decide on ACTUAL GAMEPLAY? If I am playing like shit, point out my misplays. I'll take on your advice and see how it goes.

I'll give commentary to the probabilities behind each event. I'll also be playing the most consistent deck, zoo, to prove my point.

https://www.twitch.tv/unluckydude12345

Luck balances out?

You're just shit?

Why not experience it first hand and decide on ACTUAL GAMEPLAY? If I am playing like shit, point out my misplays. I'll take on your advice and see how it goes.

I'll give commentary to the probabilities behind each event. I'll also be playing the most consistent deck, zoo, to prove my point. I am at rank 6 currently.

https://www.twitch.tv/unluckydude12345