• 4

    posted a message on Keeping Hearthstone Fresh - Card Nerfs!

    GJ Blizzard

    Thumbs UP!

    Posted in: News
  • 4

    posted a message on Most Popular Decks of the Week, Deck Spotlight: Spark's Anyfin Mrrgglrglr, Dr. Boom and the 7+ Mana Alternatives

    "It's like Hogger and Illidan Stormrage are made to be balanced; but then Dr. Boom just said fuck you"

    (also Ragnaros the Firelord and Rhonin which he mentions later)

    Posted in: News
  • 14

    posted a message on Ben Brode on Card Text Consistency

    Let me get this straight. Blizzard doesn't consider consistent card texts to be high priority because Hearthstone isn't a physical card game. However, they are simultaneously hesitant to "correct" card texts (or balance cards in larger extent) because it might make cards feel not physical?

    I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways.

    Posted in: News
  • 1

    posted a message on Incoming Battlecry meta
    Quote from ambershee >>
    Quote from Nomisbo >>
    Quote from ambershee >>

    Trust me, I know what I'm talking about - in your particular example, it's caused by an oddity with the order of effects; deathrattle occurs before a minion is destroyed, not after.

    What is happening there is as you describe; that the Kodo's battlecry triggers the deathrattle, causing Mirror Entity to come into play, the Mad Scientist is then removed, triggering the secret.

    Thinking of it as phases is incorrect, each play does not resolve using phases, Hearthstone resolves plays using a stack, as do many physical card games like MtG ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_(abstract_data_type) ) - when you understand this, a whole lot of the weird stuff will start to make much more sense ;)

    In the case of this new example:
    1. Harrison pushes (adds) one 'Harrison Battlecry event' to the stack.
    2. Brann will then push a 'Brann Ability event' onto the stack.
    3. As there are no more pending events, 'Brann Ability event' is popped (removed and resolved) from the top of the stack. This ability copies the 'Harrison Battlecry event and pushes the copy onto the stack.
    4. The copy of the 'Harrison Battlecry event' is popped and resolved - a 'Draw X cards event' is pushed onto the stack, followed by a 'Destroy Enemy Weapon event'.
    5. The 'Destroy Weapon event' is popped - note that in the case of a weapon like Death's Bite, this would push a deathrattle event, which in turn when popped could activate minions and push even more events onto the stack. This could kill something like Tirion and give your opponent a new weapon (but this situation would currently be incredibly rare given these are Warrior and Paladin class cards respectively).
    6. The 'Draw X cards event' is popped, drawing you the cards equal to the value of the weapons durability.
    7. The original 'Harrison Battlecry event' is now popped and resolved. Since the enemy no longer has a weapon, it fizzles and does nothing - however, if in step 5, the player *did* receive a new weapon by doing something like killing Tirion, then once again a 'Draw X cards' event is added to the stack, followed by a 'Destroy Enemy Weapon event' - then they are popped in the same order, once again also potentially causing more things to activate and get pushed onto the stack.


    Understanding these interactions will go a long way to helping you understand the effects card combinations will produce.

     Ok, thank you very much for the nice explanation! Playing MtG for ages, I'm familiar with the stack concept and can follow your detailled analysis of Bran Bronzebeard + Harrison Jones. I was never sure if Hearthstone uses the same/similar stack mechanic. There are some points which often confuse me. F.e. minions being targetable inbetween being played and entering the battlefield due to battlecry effect or deathrattle healing minions which are already on 0 health ...
    Do you know a comprehensive rulebook or something similar. The advanced rulebook here on hearthpwn isn't very clear arranged.
    But I really look forward to play Bran Bronzebeard + Harrison Jones to destroy a deathbite, which destroys my opponents Tirion Fordring and the second battlecry of Harrison destroys Ashbringer [/card]. It could be possible if my opponent is a priest and I'm a Paladin and one of us played [card]Blingtron 3000 ... indeed a rare scenario I suppose ;)
     I haven't seen a rulebook and haven't actually looked at the one on here either to be honest.

    Regarding battlecry and deathrattle - battlecry is triggered before the minion enters the board and deathrattle is triggered before the minion is removed from play. A battlecry minion that has not resolved it's battlecry cannot be affected by other triggered effects as a result as it has not yet entered play, a deathrattle minion can theoretically be affected by ongoing event activations whilst the deathrattle is resolving because it hasn't yet left play (the reality is, I believe, that no card or combination allows this to actually happen, but if Frothing Berserker had a deathrattle, it would continue to gain attack before the deathrattle is played out) - note that because it's health is already zero it won't be a valid target for damage dealing effects or healing effects that choose a target (even if it is random) - board wide AoE effects will still work.

    The battlecry example is best seen by playing Dr. Boom into a board where you already have one minion and your opponent has Sacred Trial in play; since Dr Boom's battlecry spawns the bots before he enters play, Dr Boom is the fourth minion and is destroyed accordingly.
    As for healing, I'm unsure of the reference for the question, off the top of my head I cannot think of any healing effects that should be able to prevent the death of a minion (and I suspect this is a deliberate design decision). The example that would get funky would be something like a deathrattle that heals your board, because it could theoretically heal another minion whose deathrattle instigated the death of the healer minion.
    Advanced rulebook is your friend.
    1. Hearthstone doesn't use stacks, much to the chagrin of many people.
    2. Death occurs before deathrattle.
    ex) Feugen and Stalagg dying simultaneously summons 2 Thaddius.
    3. Battlecry happens after minion is summoned.
    ex) Using Ironbeak Owl's Battlecry to silence Starving Buzzard draws you a card first, then silences it.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on New Order of Dr. Boom + Redemption?
    Quote from iandakar >>
    Quote from arrumph >>

    So if it's true that Sword of Justice buffs the bots first and then Boom, is that a bug?

     It is an inconsistent it looks between SOJ and Redemption.  
    SOJ triggers on the bots first, suggesting that the bots were played first.
    Redemption triggers on Boom suggesting that Boom plays first.
    I can explain that for you. SoJ during triggers during "After summon phase." Since Boom bots are summoned in "Battlecry phase" which happens and resolves before "After summon phase," their summons are resolved before Dr. Boom. It goes something like this:
    1. Dr. Boom played
    2. Battlecry phase
       1. Boom Bots summoned
       2. After summon phase (for Boom bots) // this is where SoJ triggers for Boom bots
    3. After summon phase (for Dr. Boom) // this is wher SoJ triggers for Dr. Boom
    Edit: Strictly speaking yes it is inconsistent with some other cards that say "Whenever..." Much like how Druid of the Claw is a transform but Ancient of War is a buff etc...
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on New Card - Sacred Trial
    Quote from vesperbot >>
    Quote from Lilt >>

    One downside to all this is now even more people might incorrectly think Battlecry happens before minion hits the board, but if I had a nickel for every time someone on the internet was wrong...

     It is so, in a different wording - battlecry happens before minion *finished hitting* the board.
    And this secret is now an official Onyxia hard counter. Sadface.
    No the wording is not the issue here. You can call effects going off as "fishing hitting the board" or whatever.
    The point is that minion hits the board (takes up a space, becomes interactible, etc) before Battlecry happens.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on New Card - Sacred Trial
    Quote from Vaaz86 >>

    If you have 2 charge of SOJ, the boom bots get the buffs not Boom. Even though the animation is Dr then the boom bots, the bots hit the board first mechanically.

     no soj proc at the "After Summon Phase". Boom Bots are summoned in "Battlecry Phase", so "After Summon Phase" for boom bots come first.
    1. Dr. Boom played
    2. Battlecry Phase
          1. Boom bots summoned
          2. After Summon Phase (for boom bots): SOJ procs
    3. After summon Phase (for Dr. Boom): no SoJ charge left, nothing happends
    Read Advanced Rulebook if you have more questions.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Druid of the Claw

    Currently says: Choose One - Charge; or +2 Health and Taunt.

    What it should say: Choose One - Transform to gain Charge; or +2 Health and Taunt.
    (See Druid of the Saber)

    Posted in: Druid of the Claw
  • 1

    posted a message on Bug with echoing ooze and Brann?

    So I was thinking about this one... and I think I have a reasonable explanation as to why this is happening.

    Basically, Echoing Ooze's "shield" can be thought of as a two-part buff.

    1. Summons an exact copy. (What card text says)
    2. Remove itself from Echoing Ooze. (This is more or less implied by "at the end of the turn", not "at the end of ever turn")

    The bug in this case could be that when first buff resolves, it might be removing not only itself but also a yet-to-be-resolved 2nd buff inadvertently.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on New Card - Sacred Trial

    As expected, Sacred Trial kills Dr. Boom when played with 1 minion on board. It behaves just like other secrets do, so we can expect similar interaction regarding Mind Control Tech, Knife Juggler, etc.

    One downside to all this is now even more people might incorrectly think Battlecry happens before minion hits the board, but if I had a nickel for every time someone on the internet was wrong...

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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