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Laytown
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Member for 7 years and 1 day
Last active Fri, Oct, 11 2019 03:29:39
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Feb 2, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

He's clearly really bitter about losing a lot. The game/Brode/Blizzard/myself are living inside his psyche rent free....

Strange how it's such an awfully made game but he's so active on the forums and still plays............................Hmmm

Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 2, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Quote from Hooghout >>

But Blizzard doesn't do anything much than print cards for the mindless, don't they? :)

1.) Prove what you mean by cards printed for the "mindless" - rather than regurgitating your quotes.

2.) Why are you playing then?
Posted in: Card Discussion
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Feb 2, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

I'll add - what's the easy win fix? You've yet to answer me or Stiffanoid or anyone else in this regard....

Even the most expensive decks at the moment are averaging 58%, that's often on upwards of 250'000 games........... you're literally just making ideas up and anyone who plays the game at a high enough level, knows that you are. You just sound like you're not very good at the game so you bash everything you can.... Proper pathetic. People give you reasons responses based on fact and you just sprout utter rubbish in response.
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 2, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Quote from Hooghout >>

they just wanted to harvest the pack selling frenzy from the mindless fanboy first

Yeh, the selling frenzy from a 40 dust set common..............................Sure it sold tons of packs.

The rest of your post carried zero merit/evidence. You also really need to brush up on your grammar/sentence structure as well as the content if you ever expect anyone to take you seriously.
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 2, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Quote from Hooghout >>

Quote from Anatak89 >>

I played some old MTG the other day with a friend. My god, cards in those decks were a thousand times more op than any of these cards that are being nerfed. It felt like there was no way to deal with certain aggro decks my friend had. There are ways to deal with Bonemare. Yes, it was a strong, borderline-OP card. But, there are answers to it, just like there are really answers to everything else in this game I've found. Granted I'm not a completely F2P player, so I can't truly understand the plight of f2p players, but there are answers.

As far as aggro decks are concerned, Bonemare is essentially a 7 mana neutral Blessing of Kings, really. The card design is actually not super bad.

I will add that it is much more "balanced" and less strong at 8 mana, but it wasn't as bad as you say it is.

The funny thing is. It always seem to look good on you if you state the card isn't really that bad...maybe a little. If you don't 'whine' about it but have the 'strong' attitude: Whatever OP is thrown at me, I'll find away around. There is always a way. I'll make that happen. It makes you look knowledgeable of the game. It makes you look a hero because 'whining' is for losers.

I just don't buy it.

You don't buy it? - There's nothing to buy, it's what the pros do who play the game at the highest level for hundreds of thousands of dollars. They learn the game, bonemare outside of card reduction mechanics is played on turn 6/7 at the earliest - so yes, there is sometimes a way to "make it happen" or "find a way around" - it's knowledge of decks and anticipatory playstyle.

In this context, whining is for losers. You evidently are just that, you're annoyed that strong cards exist....... then you label them as OP because you've had immense trouble dealing with them. If you hadn't, you wouldn't be on these forums moaning. I think most people are wondering why you are on these forums to be honest, it seems like you dislike the game, the team - your full time rhetoric is "They don't know how to make card games (Even though they're all paid money to do so) the game is unbalanced and the printed cards are all wrong" - but yet you're on one of the largest forums for the game............ and you evidently still play.............. How's that PhD working out for you pal?

p.s. I highlighted my previous post in bold to help you along. What a nugget.
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 2, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Quote from Hooghout >>

Quote from Laytown >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

Spoken like a true fanboy.

There are always going to be strong cards within any card game

Bonemare is not a strong card. It is a OP-card. Now it is nerfed. Why was it put there in the first place? If Devs are as good as you imply, they would have seen that coming. So they knew it was OP. They print it on purpose. Why? Pack selling stimulant for an easy and aggressive win-fix. Who is naive here?

counterplay

Result of railroaded decks: a stale and polarized meta. Respons to exodia mage; higlander priest: An aggressive meta. So much for diversity.

Not everyone wants to play slow decks, people like pressuring opponents rapidly.

This is not what everyone wants. Not everybody likes the dominance/imbalance aggressive decks organize. This dominance is not a natural part/given of the game. It is a design choice. More balance, resulting in a slower meta, means different disign choices. There is no reason why the aggro-aggressive player should be the target audience, except for revenue reasons. Look at the upcoming 'balance' changes. It is expected (even by Beeeerad who wrote his article) to slowdown the meta a bit. Much needed. So what is the problem?

People who have even a bit of notion how psychology of the marketing behind card design works, understand why the meta is continuesly broken as it is, while it follows the principle: Print OP-aggressive cards - Increased pack selling because easy win-fix - Rising discontent because of resulted staleness and polarization - Nerf.

This is the principle at the heart of current card design phylosophy. Understandable that things like balance, diversity and skill are continuesly problematic.

"If Devs are as good as you imply, they would have seen that coming. So they knew it was OP." - This alone proves how naive you truly are and how little you understand about card games and their development. "They would have seen it coming" - Do you realize how egotistical you sound? They realized it was a strong card of course but only by allowing it to be played alot can they determine what may or may not need to be altered. They've then altered it by 1 mana, which shows how fine a line it is.....

"They print it on purpose. Why? Pack selling stimulant for an easy and aggressive win-fix. Who is naive here?" - You clearly are naive and ignorant to your own point. Bonemare is a common unless you didn't notice??.... it's not exactly a pack selling stimulant is it??!

"Result of railroaded decks: a stale and polarized meta. Respons to exodia mage; higlander priest: An aggressive meta. So much for diversity." - All decks including aggro have a response, so your point is mute. Not only mute but shows that you have a personal agenda based away from fact.

"This is the principle at the heart of current card design phylosophy. " - For one, it clearly isn't, there are a multitude of control decks that have been present in recent years. You're just claiming once again. You previous post read by any intelligent adult shows how completely naive and single minded you are and that you have an agenda......

Once again, Why are you on these forums or playing the game if it's everything you make it out to be???

Hiding behind a so called innate, inferential state of 'card games and their development' is like looking in the mirror and seeing oneself to be naive. 'They realized it [Bonemare] was a strong card of course but only by allowing it to be played alot can they determine what may or may not need to be altered.' You can't print a card and see what it does in the meta, wait too long before nerfing and let people pay for it. Even so you wouldn't accept an update on your computer if it is not checked that it not corrupts existing software. That is exactly what Bonemare and other now nerfed cards did to the meta: it caused major imbalances, staleness and polarization. Well that seems fine with you. Not with me. You can't justify that saying: this is how card games work. It is unacceptable car design, morally repulsive, simply not the right thing to do. By the way you don't need to check Bonemare in the first place to conclude that it would be used in virtually every aggressive OP-deck.

"You can't print a card and see what it does in the meta" - Yes you can, simulation analytics and play testing is an immeasurably small sample size compared to a player base of 70 million people. It is part of every single card game, look up ban lists in Magic. You're talking like a whiny little child.

" morally repulsive, simply not the right thing to do" - I mean, this quote doesn't need much explanation to show just how personal this is to you. Also, based on absolutely nothing other than you stating it's not the right thing to do.

What are these aggressive " OP " decks you're talking about?? - As a good player, bonemare is something I accept I may have to deal with on turn 6 coin or turn 7 if I've allowed an opponent to leave a minion up. What's OP? Are you just not very good at the game...?

Finally it's not hiding behind anything, ALL card games have prints. Are you stating that you know you could do it differently from every single card game development team and company, ever?

.........This is my favorite part, shows how childish. "let people pay for it" - So what, you've had losses against strong cards? Is that particularly surprising in a competitive card game, that someone plays a strong card at a certain time and it's caused you to lose?..... It's the equivalent of of playing against Messi and being surprised that you lost and he scored quite a few goals.

Posted in: Card Discussion
1

Feb 1, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Quote from Hooghout >>

Spoken like a true fanboy.

There are always going to be strong cards within any card game

Bonemare is not a strong card. It is a OP-card. Now it is nerfed. Why was it put there in the first place? If Devs are as good as you imply, they would have seen that coming. So they knew it was OP. They print it on purpose. Why? Pack selling stimulant for an easy and aggressive win-fix. Who is naive here?

counterplay

Result of railroaded decks: a stale and polarized meta. Respons to exodia mage; higlander priest: An aggressive meta. So much for diversity.

Not everyone wants to play slow decks, people like pressuring opponents rapidly.

This is not what everyone wants. Not everybody likes the dominance/imbalance aggressive decks organize. This dominance is not a natural part/given of the game. It is a design choice. More balance, resulting in a slower meta, means different disign choices. There is no reason why the aggro-aggressive player should be the target audience, except for revenue reasons. Look at the upcoming 'balance' changes. It is expected (even by Beeeerad who wrote his article) to slowdown the meta a bit. Much needed. So what is the problem?

People who have even a bit of notion how psychology of the marketing behind card design works, understand why the meta is continuesly broken as it is, while it follows the principle: Print OP-aggressive cards - Increased pack selling because easy win-fix - Rising discontent because of resulted staleness and polarization - Nerf.

This is the principle at the heart of current card design phylosophy. Understandable that things like balance, diversity and skill are continuesly problematic.

"If Devs are as good as you imply, they would have seen that coming. So they knew it was OP." - This alone proves how naive you truly are and how little you understand about card games and their development. "They would have seen it coming" - Do you realize how egotistical you sound? They realized it was a strong card of course but only by allowing it to be played alot can they determine what may or may not need to be altered. They've then altered it by 1 mana, which shows how fine a line it is.....

"They print it on purpose. Why? Pack selling stimulant for an easy and aggressive win-fix. Who is naive here?" - You clearly are naive and ignorant to your own point. Bonemare is a common unless you didn't notice??.... it's not exactly a pack selling stimulant is it??!

"Result of railroaded decks: a stale and polarized meta. Respons to exodia mage; higlander priest: An aggressive meta. So much for diversity." - All decks including aggro have a response, so your point is mute. Not only mute but shows that you have a personal agenda based away from fact.

"This is the principle at the heart of current card design phylosophy. " - For one, it clearly isn't, there are a multitude of control decks that have been present in recent years. You're just claiming once again. You previous post read by any intelligent adult shows how completely naive and single minded you are and that you have an agenda......

Once again, Why are you on these forums or playing the game if it's everything you make it out to be???
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 1, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Hoogstone
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 1, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

Quote from Stiffanoid >>

Just because you don't like the results or the game Hearthstone was designed to be doesn't make the solution wrong. Perhaps the problem is with you and your expectations and you should look elsewhere for this mythical game you seek.

Can only second this. It's exactly as it's meant to be by remit... So if you don't like it, which you clearly don't. Find another game to enjoy.

I hope you do find another game to enjoy so we don't have to put up with your ramblings.

He could even go off and make his own card game.....With it being so easy and obvious and with all your extensive knowledge and experience...................................I think he's got a PhD and a Masters, so should be a breeze. =)

Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 1, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right

I trust a lot more than some random on the internets gut feel.

This also.
Posted in: Card Discussion
2

Feb 1, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right
Quote from Hooghout >>
Stop printing OP-cards like scalebane, kingsbane, corridor creeper, bonemare. Stop printing cards that make the meta hyper aggressive.

Don't make drawing board, railroaded decks like quest mage, kingsbane rogue, highlander priest that only attract aggressive counter play to win the game.

Print cards that slow down the game: more diverse decks, more unviable cards become viable. In general stop print cards that cater into the dominance of aggro-aggressive archetypes.

Print cards that raise the skill floor. Skill of the game will increase by doing so. That means another crowd coming in playing the game. That means more diversity, more thinking time, more viable playable cards. Skill in the game is mistakenly, but convienently framed by Brode to be represented by the skill ceiling. Very smart if you don't want to do something about the speed of the game: core reason of current problems with the meta.

So stop printing cards for the mindless crowd. Stop the easy win fix frenzy. The fear that would drop revenues is unfounded as the game would open up for a different skill oriented crowd.
I'll touch on how naive you are.

1.) There are always going to be strong cards within any card game, auto-includes/high values etc etc. These can be and are played around. Playing around class specific and neutral plays on specific turns defines archetypes and play styles across classes. Are there ebs and flows in power class to class - of course. This is natural in all card games. You also touch on the meta being hyper aggressive yet then also moan about slower decks which have answers to everything......... It seems you make your mind up to prove your point/emotions in any given situation. Also, the solution within a digital format doesn't have to be not printing a card, it can be allowing a card to be played and form part of seasons of meta games and then choosing to nerf/adapt cards over time after it's tested by the player base. There are only so many simulations and analytic periods you can run on a card before print... don't kid yourself that this process is easy to define, there are countless articles going all the way back to the early days of magic discussing just how difficult this process is, without going into the topic of how one defines balance at given time periods.

2.) You can't be serious in not understanding counterplay... after claiming to understand card games. Active counterplay is a fundamental part of being a great player and having a knowledge of the current format and card base. If you come up against a slow combo build deck, you know that it's in your favour to act quickly. If you come across a minion heavy synergy deck, you may aggressively look to diminish their board to remove this.

3.) Your concept of "slowing down the game" is horrendously naive. Not everyone wants to play slow decks, people like pressuring opponents rapidly. Aggro decks in themselves carry inherent risk and feature in all card games and always have, so stop acting like you're somehow in with new information compared to the "crowd". Aggro isn't going anywhere, it never has. Still exists in Magic and as per my previous points, the good players accept them as part of the game and part of how they intelligently play within the meta.

4.) no point even waging in here. The comment itself shows how utterly naive and narrow minded you are sprouting vague nonsense such as "more viable playable cards" or "more diversity" - yet offering no substance to what you mean.

5.) similar to the above, your reference once again to the "mindless crowd" - (that's everyone on this forum by your reckoning and the entire player base, other than you....?) Where's the easy win fix? If it exists, why weren't you playing in the finals at world's and winning $250k..???? They don't fear a drop in revenues for opening up to a "different skill orientated crowd" - this isn't how growth within the sector works on a design basis. By definition of recorded win rates, there is not an easy win in hearthstone. Would love to hear you try to define what the "mindless crowd" is...what's the easy win???

It's not about shutting up or that devs know everything. It's about the fact that, they don't make grand claims... they work on the game. Grand claims require grand evidence.... you're the one making grand claims about a game being awful or having a mindless crowd yet ultimately back it up with absolutely nothing. It has a player base in the tens of millions, to think that all of those are "mindless" is selling yourself as the odd one out and you're not a special little snowflake, you're just like the rest. You're ready to slag the team off who work on the game but you have no qualification as to what they're doing "wrong" when the game has a remit for design. You're ready to call me a fanboy when in reality I've just worked in the industry and you see "balance" as this 2 dimensional concept that seems to be bred from you having some unfortunate losses playing HS and you're just aggravated and want to moan that the game isn't how you want it to be.

Why should it be exactly how you want? When so many people (of whom many are professional players, 1 is a magic hall of famer < to counter your idea that skill/talents plays no role with "easy win") enjoy the game.... Which leads back to your placement in the discussion, why are you uniquely placed to know that the devs/designers are "wrong". Given that devs are also players.........Paradoxical basis for an argument.
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Feb 1, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Nerfs: Will Blizzard Ever Learn How to do them Right
Quote from Hooghout >>
Quote from Matrix801 >>

Quote from mostdeadlygeist >>

They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.

It is a central philosophy to Blizzard called 'taking turns'. The powerful class/tribe/build is rendered irrelevant so another can enjoy brokenness. It has some advantages:

Soothes the butthurt by providing retribution for the victims of the OP element.

No real brainpower required to come up with the 'balance' change

Players who invested in the broken element suddenly need to pony up all over again.

Some will disagree, but they can say 'hiyah' to warlock, the new overlords.

Not many thinking types on this forum, but this is spot-on. Card design philosophy serving mindlessness is what current devs are very capable off. Good for pack selling, an insult to the possibility of a skill-based game.
So salty yet with zero experience/evidence/justification to back up such wild claims about people you don't know and a topic you clearly don't fully understand.

You're just jumping to whatever angry little conclusion you want to, to make you feel better about not understanding all the elements of designing/developing cards games. The guys on Team5 are far far more qualified than any of you in regard to card design, hence why they're working at Team5..... Go and apply to work there and "fix" the game, you'll see how rapidly your confidence dissipates in the face of people who live and breath card games and have done for decades.... Balance is an ongoing process and the notion of design philosophy serving mindlessness, shows how naive you are in your understanding.

Take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect..... You're an embodiment of it.
Posted in: Card Discussion
1

Jan 29, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Card Nerf - Corridor Creeper

Bombed this card. Will still see play, thinking it's reduction in hunter will still make it a useable card, 0 cost 2/5 beast synergy may still have some power, if not right now then potentially coming up.
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Jan 29, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Card Nerf - Bonemare

Still playable but a considerable nerf. Potentially crashing late game for some decks for a turn or two.
Posted in: Card Discussion
0

Jan 29, 2018
Laytown posted a message on Card Nerf - Raza the Chained

Seems balanced in regard to the nerf, should retain some considerable power still.
Posted in: Card Discussion
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