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- Kissmealloveragain
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Member for 5 years, 6 months, and 12 days
Last active Mon, Jun, 8 2020 01:46:10 -
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0
Alright, explain your reasoning? A simple “lol no” really means little to anyone.
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If the coin lands on heads 17 times in a row, realistically that side would seem better would it not? Because that's whats happening here, a 100% winrate throughout 17 games. Sure, anyone can get a dream curve, but you're really trying to say it happened 17 times in a row? Seems highly unrealistic to me, especially since this game is purely random.
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All "facts" start as an opinion of a person, then it becomes a "fact" when more and more people agree. Such as religion, there is no proof that any gods exist and yet there are millions if not billions of followers of religion.
As I said at the end of the post, watch those videos. Tier 2 decks wouldn't be getting a 100% winrate throughout rank 5 and legend, not even the currently best decks can do that. Tier list is based on winrate, the lowest winrate of a tier 2 deck is 50.04% and the highest is 55.27%. Those videos not only show how busted mana wyrm is, but they also show a 100% winrate.
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Why would you expect me to read what you post when you refuse to open your eyes to what I posted? I like how the one thing you had a response to was that, absolutely brilliant.
Let’s look at the classic list for mage. “Mostly useless freezing effects” there are two cards in that set which freeze an enemy, with one of those being Blizzard. It astonishes me how you call that card useless, really it’s mind boggling. Cone of cold certainly is not a top tier card, but it’s certainly not useless. Counterspell, mirror entity and spellbender were all run in some variation of tempo mage. And once again, only 3 classes out of 9 had a 1 drop minion in the classic set.
The whole “no 1 drop part” was clearly your weakest point, and I’m not sure how you ever thought that point would work. Brings a tear of joy to my eye when people have no idea what they’re saying.
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Did you forget Arcane Artificer? Hint: it's a 1 drop for mage I know that must be shocking. I'm only talking down to you due to your clear bias for mage, I literally listed many examples and yet here you are still trying to say mage only gets garbage cards, yikes.
Big spell mage is coming back as a deck, from looking at the stats and from personal experience. Instead of sitting around here moping, try getting out there and playing it.
Mage has some of the strongest classic cards, does a certain 4 mana deal 6 damage spell ring any bells? Also mage was one of the only 3 classes to have a one drop in the classic set, post mana wyrm nerf. Yep, only 3 classes out of 9 had the opportunity to run a 1 drop from their class, which mage was included in. Wow, that sure does sound like blizzard hates mage!! (sarcasm.)
All facts are just opinions people agreed on, is there anything different with this? The opinion of people defending mana wyrm say it was a tier 2 or worse deck, yet the people who disliked the card could see the truth, interesting. Have a watch of these videos and maybe you'll understand that a tier 2 deck wouldn't have a 100% winrate throughout 17 games. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzHHQg9s2yA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgbrrKPKG9Q
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Baku rogue is far from the best, odd paladin unfortunately takes that prize. Try running doomsayer
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Many hearthstone streamers have said that tempo mage was a tier one deck, including trump. Obviously he can be wrong sometimes, but perhaps you saw his 100% winrate temp mage video. A “just okay” deck wouldn’t of made it into the lower end of legend.
Of course you don’t care much for boomsday, perhaps it’s due to it proving your point wrong. Or perhaps it’s due to the fact it was a fairly lacklustre expansion. My previous point of every expansion giving garbage to all classes stands, take witchwood perhaps. Just have a look at the full list for it and tell me with a straight face that mage was the only class that got terrible cards, if you can do that then you must be a masterful liar and I congratulate you for that. If we go to kobolds and catacombs, we will see Aluneth, Dragons fury, arcane artificer, explosive runes, Leyline manipulator, all really good cards for mage.
A point I’m trying to get you to understand is that some expansions are a swing and a miss, Blizzard isn’t trying to destroy mage, it’s just not feasible to print many more power cards for hearthstone given the power level of Ungoro, Knights of the frozen throne and kobolds and catacombs. Not every class is going to get insane cards every expansion (such as Druid getting potentially the worst legendaries of The witchwood “Duskfallen aviana” and “Splintergraft.”)
I do find it hard to believe that freeze was killed off with how much Blizzard tries to push freeze shaman, but I only started getting interested in this game a year ago so I’m not fully sure.
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Oh boy where to start, tempo mage was a tier one deck, it’s the main reason so many people played it, because it was so simple that even children could play it and successfully get to legend.
Every class gets garbage every single expansion, thinking that mage is the only one is such a selfish way of thinking. If anything, I’d say mage got some of the best cards this expansion, Stargazer luna and Luna’s pocket galaxy. Sure, pocket galaxy may seem garbage, but that is only because of how aggressive the meta is, it’s far too slow to compete with all the one turn kill decks and the aggressive ones.
Now, let’s have a peek at other terrible legendaries that came from boomsday and hopefully you won’t continue to be so simple minded. Flark’s Boom-zooka for hunter, Boommaster flark for hunter, Harbinger Celestia for all classes, Zerek, Master cloner for priest, Myra rotspring for rogue, Myra’s unstable element for rogue, Dr. Morrigan for warlock, The boomship for warrior. So, the more accurate statement is that Boomsday as a whole had garbage cards, not just mage.
The odd/even archetype clearly doesn’t work for every class, I think that’s apparent when you look at priest. Once again, your bias towards mage is showing. Toki is just like any “add a random card to your hand” if you get lucky, then you tend to think it’s good. Except toki has decent stats for her mana cost too. I finally agree with you about Inkmaster solia, that is trash tier, but as I said above it’s clearly not just mage.
The freeze archetype has never been good, they keep pushing new cards that can freeze things to no avail. Ice block was added to the hall of fame for obvious reasons, 3 mana gain a second life basically seems a little busted to me. Every class has been hit with nerfs, it’s again such a simple minded thing to try and complain about.
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Flame imp is a decent at best opener, it was really the only 1 drop that could counter mana wyrm given that it has 3 health. However, flame imp has no snowball effect and it damages the player for 3 health which can matter drastically in most matchups. Mana wyrm had no draw back, it was a card that needed to be dealt with as soon as possible or it would start hitting you for 4+ damage each turn. Northshire cleric is no where near this power level, in my opinion.
I think instead of using our feelings, we should look at the facts. And the facts are that mage winrates have dropped below priest, potentially one of the worst classes currently. This timing is no coincidence, the mage winrate was carried on the back of mana wyrm. Now let's look at other power cards you mentioned, Northshire cleric has a 48.9% played winrate, this is nothing compared to pre-nerf mana wyrm. Flame imp has a 49.9% played winrate, again these so called "great openers" seem to help very little in the long run for the decks, if anything they hinder it given that most decks with flame imp have on average a 56.2% deck winrate. Edit: I checked and mage has the worst winrate throughout standard, wild and arena, but I'm sure that's totally just a coincidence and has nothing to do with the nerfs. :)
"This is to say that playing Mana Wyrm in the mid-game should be just as detrimental to the opponent as if it were played early. It boasting a negative win-rate post nerf could be the result of a number of things both involving and not involving Mana Wyrm directly. Plenty of players queue in without looking at the changes and then auto-concede when they realize a card got nerfed- automatic loss in the statistics. Other players foolishly play the same deck without changes without also realizing they now have no 1-drop minions to play in an aggro deck. People are now experimenting with different builds and that's swaying data as well. Directly following any change is a terrible time to take the win/loss data and try to generalize its previous power."
This whole part couldn't of been more out of touch, after the nerfs came out and when hearthstone was opened, it tells you what changed. This is just an excuse from people trying to defend the previous best one drop in the game. Now, we can keep trying to justify our thoughts even if some of us are wrong or we can accept that this card will never be 1 mana again and move on to playing more overpowered cards, as mage players seem to enjoy that. I suggest playing hunter, they have a 5 mana 12/12 that requires really no effort to achieve, just throw down a few secrets.
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https://hsreplay.net/replay/tfnp984D6EySQTH9s5rQ5R
I recently had this game with a garbage warrior deck I made just to finish a quest and I would have won if my cleave at the end connected to the proper minions, I think the fact that a previous deck that worked at legend could barely beat the deck I threw together just because mana wyrm was increased in mana price, shows a few things. Tempo mage is nothing without a 1 cost mana wyrm.
There are however good mage decks, such as big spell mage. With it you can constantly clear the board, and given that this meta is very aggressive, depleting their board every single turn ends with them having nothing and you winning.
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Giggling isn't dead, at this time it is currently the 8th most played card in arena (in more decks than stonehill, phantom militia etc.) And as for quest rogue, it's still a 7 mana 12/12, to me that's good enough but I guess rogue players are far greedier. Now it's time for the next 5 mana 12/12 to be nerfed "Lesser Emerald Spell stone."
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Mana wyrm was a far better opener than any other class had, it was as you said "completely ridiculous." The decks that continue to run this card now have a measly 46.5% average win-rate and a 43.3% played win-rate. Tempo mage used to be far above 50%, so this just shows how often the game was decided on the first turn which is very unhealthy for any competitive aspect that hearthstone was trying to push.
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Giggling Inventor is still a 7 mana 12/12 in quest rogue (granted only by completing the quest) so I'd say it's still good enough to be run in it.
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Druidstone doesn't exist, if anything it's hunterstone at the moment. To all the people who are upset with the nerf, think of how upset your opponents were when you could play mana wyrm and coin out arcane missles to get a 1 mana 3/3 with almost certain board control. This card needed to be put down, good riddance.
Edit: I recently had this game of me versing one of the strongest decks currently, Even Shaman, with a Whizbang deck "Spells are fun, so fun!" https://hsreplay.net/replay/NYJpicQ6bKisma8kjoQDYZ
And while I was certainly losing for a bit, with a bit of luck and the help of Arcane Artificer (another strong 1 mana MAGE minion) I ended up winning. So tempo mage is definitely not the only possible mage deck to ladder with.