Hearthpwn

How would this be a +2 on the deaths counter? Does "activating a deathrattle" count the same as "actual minion death," mechanically? Based on the wording of the card, it seems like effects like Play Dead or Call of the Grave wouldn't increment the check for "7 dead boars." They would just give you the sword if seven boars had already died prior to when the effect checks the death-count.

The way I'm reading this, it's a +1 at best, assuming your discovered boar doesn't get polymorphed before it can die.

Because the issue is Renew, not Wandmaker. The change you're suggesting would technically affect Priest's ability to get Renew from Wandmaker, but it would also affect every other deck that uses Wandmaker in classes where the pool of 1-mana spells aren't particularly problematic.

Wandmaker is the good sort of generation, if you ask me. It has enough constraints so that the pool it draws from is consistent without being reliable. You can't play a Wandmaker and KNOW that you'll get Devolving Missiles, for example, but you know that playing Wandmaker might get you that specific card, so you can try for it. The problem when Renew is in the pool is that Renew then generates even more resources -- maybe a Palm Reading, which generates even MORE resources. It can really get out of hand. If you're running Renew in your deck with that specific gameplan, fine. But being able to luck into it consistently (not reliably, but consistently) via Wandmaker is a problem of Renew, not a problem of Wandmaker.

They've correctly identified that the issue is "Renew does too much to be fair at the 1-mana slot," so "let's move it out of the 1-mana slot" is a perfectly good solution.

@Nidnam: The claim is that it is "disgusting," which is hyperbolic to say the least. C'thun isn't disgusting for a lot of the same reasons: It requires a bunch of setup and card sequencing and control in the meantime to pull off. The number of times I've actually seen C'thun played from C'thun decks is vanishingly small, and I suspect that "Double Backfire OTK" is even less statistically likely to happen. It's POSSIBLE to do a bunch of crazy stuff -- just watch any of MarkMcZ's videos. But this one doesn't exactly rise to the level of "disgusting" for previously-stated reasons.

Quote from fjl93 >>

2 Backfire + Hero Power = 36 damage. Disgusting.

 That is not how math works at all. That's 8 damage total, which is 13 short of the 21 you need to get access to Tamsin, and even then, she only applies future damage taken to your opponent. You're fundamentally misunderstanding how these Questline cards work.

Quote from Pr1ncipe4i20 >>

Quote from fabjx >>

I have been wondering:

is this abomination of a card balanced?

 stop crying, there are tons of defensive cards in all classes to counter it. U can poly to not be revived, u can secret 8 armor, u can play warrior, u can use taunts, armor cards stuff that get u ahead of DH's Inquisitor face strategy.

I love how one of the "tons of defensive cards" this person suggests is Polymorph, a card that is not in Standard. But then, they also suggest "taunts" as if those do anything to stop an 8/8 with Rush.

Shaman aren't going to get straight-up card draw, because that's one of Shaman's weaknesses. So instead there's conditional card draw with some relatively minor deckbuilding constraints. Sure, if you play only this on curve, you might break an Elemental chain. But if you're willing to do that, it's probably because you didn't have an Elemental worth playing that turn anyway, so the chain was going to be broken regardless. This way you come out of it with a 2/3 body and a spell, and possibly an Elemental as well. That's pretty good for 3 mana.

Besides which, there's nothing saying you HAVE to play this on 3. You could play it on 4 alongside a Kindling Elemental (or a 2-cost Elemental that previously got discounted by a Kindling).

The card is a little situational, yeah. It isn't an auto-include, and it isn't an auto-play-on-3. That's fine. Even with those caveats, it's a good card.

Quote from Brigamir >>

I know it's a bad card design- in fact i thought Blizz had tried to nip mill decks before so it seemed weird they'd release this?vMaybe I'm wrong. Either way raging only invites trolls, I just wanted to add my angst to the list lol

There's a difference between the mechanic of "milling cards" and "mill decks." Certainly the latter employs the former to achieve its ends, but the problem lies in the truly excessive amount of mill from the deck, and not the comparatively tame amount produced by cards like Tickatus.

Blizzard has done a lot to disincentivize decks like Mill Rogue that forced you to draw cards at an absurdly accelerated rate (while often refilling their own deck, so as to not fall behind in fatigue). These decks are frustrating to play against from top to bottom, with no reasonable counterplay, and that usually warrants intervention from Blizzard.

Contrast this with Tickatus, who needs much more deck support and has much less replayability. Sure, Y'shaarj brings him back for another round, and that's annoying, but you can keep playing your deck in the meantime. In other words, Tickatus is a powerful card, but he's not an automatic death sentence. There are plenty of games that can weather Tickatus's shenanigans. This is not the case for Mill Decks in general, which rely on hyper-aggro as the only possible "counterplay," and that's not even reliable.

Quote from TheHiddenNinja7 >>

Quote from arneankann >>.

 By this logic Crossroads Gossiper shouldn't trigger when he's ressurected by Redemption since the card has already been played when he comes to life. Guess what, it does trigger. 

 I agree. Every other card I can think of doesn't trigger off of the effect that summoned it.

This specific one is because Crossroads Gossiper has an "after" timing trigger, and not a "when" timing trigger. You're right that it's a bit of an edge case, because there aren't many interactions like this. But part of Redemption's effect is to summon a minion. If that minion is Gossiper, then Gossiper is on the board before Redemption "finishes" casting. Then, since Gossiper is already there, it checks to see if any friendly Secrets have been revealed. Redemption has been revealed, hooray! It's buff time.

If Gossiper had a "when" or "whenever" trigger, its check would occur earlier in the sequence. Specifically because this is an "after" effect, Gossiper can gossip about themselves. ("Oh my Yogg, can you believe I died? For real. Totally dead, but I'm like, back now. Seriously.")

I love how everyone's acting like you can't have Kazakus and Hysteria in the same deck anymore. With the sheer amount of spell-generation in Priest, there are plenty of bites at the Hysteria-apple even if you don't run it in your decklist (to satisfy Kazakus's deck-building condition).

You've got Renew, you have Palm Reading, there's Venomous Scorpid (who can also take out a minion or two on the way), not to mention Sethekk Veilweaver.

Sure, it won't be as reliable, but it's not "goodbye forever," it's "see you around."

 I seen the changes, but I don't know.

"Oh, a mutanus thread, finally something that isn't pointless whining about tickatus"

reads a few posts

No, nevermind, next thread please.

"What's your point?"

The point was clear, it's just pointing out why looking at it in that way is a nonsense.

You openly make a whiny, salty thread and then say its sad that people can't have conversation. No, conversation can easily be had but when you open a thread you set the tone for the conversation that follows. If you had made a thread that genuinely just wanted to discuss the card then my reply would have been in kind but you didn't, you even openly say you didn't. So when you make a salty post, you're probably going to get a higher amount of similar types of responses, because people typically don't have much time for it. Plus it gets done countless times every week on here, so you get a tired response to a tired attempt at engaging conversation.

I simply pointed out the flaws in your thinking and gave a reasonable response as to why the card isn't a problem. If that's your idea of 'not being able to have a conversation' then it's more of an issue with you looking to either be pandered to or to find an echo chamber. Neither are my problem. Next time, make a more rounded, considered, non salty thread perhaps?

You didn't even bother to attempt a response to my actual response regarding the card. For someone bemoaning an ability to have a conversation, you aren't very good at engaging in them. 

As long as you think making decks that don't happen to have been made by many others is 'the' way to play, you're just going to continue winding yourself up.

The problem you seem to have is that you don't seem to grasp that the way YOU enjoy the game is kot the same way that others enjoy it. So if you don't have the emotional intelligence to consider why other people don't enjoy making decks with the purpose of them being unique, you're again going to continue to wind yourself up.

The game designers themselves include a feature that allows you to import deck codes. So by design they want people to share and use decks or at the very least, enable it. If they simply enable it then it leads me to suspect that its because the majority of people want that feature. Which puts you in the minority.

If you have tons of time to sit and tweak decks Iver the course of hours, sound. Not everyone does, I don't enjoy deck building, it's not a part of the game I find interesting or fun. I also have things like a family, friends, social and work commitments, I don't have hours to pour over whether one card needs changing out or not.

You're incorrectly conflating deck building and playing the game. I see an expansion reveal and I know the types of decks and cards I want to try out. I could spend a week messing about, getting annoyed because I'm not a very good deck builder, before I naturally change my deck to something more effective or I can see the ideas that much better deck builders have and I get to use the cards I want to play with.

You need to accept that your way is not 'the' way. Clearly the majority of players and the developers themselves don't agree with you.

I'll tell you what would happen if you remove the ability to share and import decks.....

First, you lose a bunch of players. There are tons of reasons people don't play the way you do, they may be free to play and just can't afford to tweak and trial, they may kot enjoy it etc etc etc. So remove this feature and you likely lose a chunk of players. Then those left will naturally end up where we are now anyway. When I started playing the game, I had absolutely no clue what I was doing. I got wrecked by a DK warlock deck. Right I thought, I'll make that! So I scrambled together what I could and make a control lock deck. I played a while, encountered plenty of mirrors and their decks were simply superior. Ahhhh, I thought, I shouldn't have THAT card, that last person had a different one and that makes a ton of sense. I'm the end, I ended up with basically a netdecked control lock. I had no idea what 'netdecking' was (cringe term btw), I had just started playing the game and was adapting to getting rolled over by more refined decks. Then as I played more and more I looked hearthstone up online, found forums and sites etc and came to realise there were tons of deck ideas out there that I could try. Far better way to play the game, from my perspective.

Stop treating the way you choose to play ad the only acceptable way. You're creating this rule yourself and then getting frustrated that others don't follow it, which is ridiculous.

'homebrew' is just code for 'shit deck' or 'less than optimal deck' but little nerds love using it to try and claim some sort of weird highground. Not everyone can live in a card game man, some of us have shit to do.

Quote from Arrows23 >>

 I am talking about Mt results, not the random ladder matches or the opinions of content creators like Kibler

Mt has nothing to do with real meta-gameplay and Kibler is not just "random content creator", he's a veteran of card games, lead designer of World of Warcraft Trading Card Game and designer of many other card games. In short, he knows the stuff.

I know, but haven't seen the changes.

Quote from Kedalin >>

I disagree with some of your predictions. For example, I think the Outrider's Axe will be changed to a 4/2, because those are different numbers.

But the real big oversight you made was Demon Hunter. Yes, Silence Demon Hunter will undoubtedly make its triumphant resurgence, but what is the key card in that deck? That's right, Illidari Inquisitor. And let's be honest, the card is underperforming right now. So how can we improve this card without making it too oppressive? That's right, give it "Outcast: Windfury." Why Windfury? Because sometimes the opponent has TWO taunts. Why Outcast? Because sometimes the opponent has TWO taunts.

 I agree with the way you think, it makes sense for Demon Hunter to get 2 buffs, because they really hyped it up.

Hi, beta player here and more recently a double Legend rank player. I wanted to share my opinion on buffs/nerfs, particularly because people like to see this but also to explain my game philosophy.

Let's look at what we know so far. The sources can be found in the article about the nerfs/buffs on the front page:

5 nerfs: 2 neutral (1 murloc), 3 class cards

10 buffs: archetypes that are not as strong as they hoped, with a hint that demon hunter will improve. Caravans not touched.

My opinion about the nerfs:

Prize Vendor - we all know what the murloc nerf will be. Can be a powerful tech card against decks that hold large hands, in burning 1 or 2 key pieces from them. So it will be efficient against Warlock, which will most likely dodge all nerfs and dominate the meta. But to keep the flavor of classes like Shaman and Priest not having access to card draw, my suggested nerf is to chance the text to: "your opponent draws a card". Still very efficient against Warlock or Demon Hunter Otk, while reducing the availability of neutral card draw.

Waste Warden - with the addition of the Quillboar tribe, clearly this card has spiked in power level, being able to hit more targets with no downside. My suggested nerf is: "2 attack instead of 3 attack". This way there are downsides to playing it, as it can no longer trade easily into other minions.

Flamestrike - back to 4 damage. Everyone knows mage is a problem now, and the Flamestrike buff is clearly the main culprit. It is oppressive in arena, so arena players deserve to get the chance to make meaningful development of 5 health minions once again.

Invigorating Sermon - cost increased to 5. This way Paladin cannot cheat stats as early as turn 4, giving decks like rush warrior a chance to wait with their own buffs until turn 5 and then make meaningful trades on board. Paladin has dominated the meta since the start of the expansion and I would like to see this card toned down, as it feels oppressive to get punished for letting your opponent develop a board before turn 4.

Doomhammer - windfury removed. Doomhammer Shaman is the only deck that sees a bit of play in standard right now and is the main cause of making the other Shaman archetypes viable. Additionally, it heavily limits design space for attack buffs, and makes other weapons an afterthought. This can be the catalyst of a lot of experimentation in other shaman archetypes.

So these are the nerfs, and we all kinda expect them, but let's talk about the more exciting stuff: the buffs! While after a round of nerfs a lot of players feel like not playing anymore because of the wet noodle feeling (playing with weak cards), buffs can create a lot of exciting new decks. So here is my take: every class will receive one buff on their worst performing archetype. And here is what I would like to see:

Sigil of Silence - Also draws a card for each silenced minion. At this point, Silence Demon Hunter feels like it lost something in Consume Magic. Playing a delayed mass dispell is simply not good enough, and with the card draw the archetype can shine once again. Moreover, the opponent will be able to decide how many cards he will give you, giving them counterplay to burn key cards in your deck.

Razormane Battleguard - 2 mana 2/3 down to 1 mana 1/3. Taunt Druid was very hyped early on, but proved to be just too slow to compete. Accelerating their development by one turn can allow them to seriously contend for the board, while giving meaningful interaction for the newly buffed Sigil of Silence.

Lock and Load - down to 0 mana. They probably were very proud to bring the card back at one mana, creating a fun Miracle Hunter archetype. Unfortunately the card sees no play, and it would not surprise me to see a hail merry from them: "guys this is literally the last thing we can do to improve this card". Some people also suggested it generating spells as an alternative but I prefer the 0 mana spice instead. We cannot only rely on one card (Kolkar Pack Runner) to jam spells at our opponent.

Wyrm Weaver - 4 mana 3/5 to 3 mana 2/4. Once again, despite the initial reduction in cost from 5 to 4, internal data shows that people tend to not include minions in their mage decks, which in turn makes Refreshing Spring Water oppressive. Competing for the 4 cost slot with Kazakus, Golem Shaper also is a problem, so this can hopefully convince more people to include minions in their mage decks - basically kills 2 birds with one stone.

Lothraxion the Redeemed - 5 mana 5/5 down to 1 mana 1/3. Silver Hand Recruit Paladin, despite being one of the oldest and most beloved archetypes, does not work at the moment. The problem with this card is that turn 5 is often a bit too late to give your men bubbles, so an earlier approach can turn memes into dreams. Some of my friends (also legend players) have suggested it to always start in your hand, but I think that would be a bit too strong.

Shadowed Spirit - 3 damage up to 4 damage. People hate playing against Priest. But why? Are they strong? No. Are they powerful? Also no. The problem is that they have no aggressive archetype. And this card alone, with one extra damage, can produce a lot of copies of it and slowly but surely drain down their opponents. If you cannot convince people to stop playing Priest, at least you can convince a percentage of them to play an aggressive archetype.

Swinetusk Shank - Let me explain myself. I am aware this card is quite strong at the moment so why should it be buffed? The answer is simple: you cannot have Acidic Swamp Ooze annihilate an entire archetype on its own. So my suggestion is that on deathrattle, this weapon shuffles back into the deck while keeping all enchantments. Why is it not broken after this change? Because there is already a card that does this, for 1 mana, and it is was never that strong. We need to teach people to stop playing the Ooze and I hope the dev team sees that.

Boggspine Knuckles - Back to 4 attack. The fact that we can no longer play a 0 cost pirate on the same turn makes it more fair and balanced, and now it can answer common minions like Mankrik, Efficient Octo-bot and Luckysoul Hoarder. With the nerf to Doomhammer, it's time for different Shaman weapons to shine, and it's time to be able to punish people for playing 4 health minions.

Shadow Council - +2/+2 changed to +2/+3. Random Demon Warlock was never the deck we wanted it to be, despite the uptick in general quality of demons. With this change, the minions are healthier and are going to take part in many more meaningful trades, while keeping their attack in check, so they don't kill the opponent too fast. It's time to have an interesting Warlock deck once again!

Outrider's Axe - +1 durability. "We initially made it a 3/2". That is funny, not even as a 3/3 is it seeing play right now. But people can be wrong, and that includes the game devs (I kinda felt that it is not very strong though). With another point of durability, it also stops Warriors from jamming only minions in their deck, plus the buff cards, then calling it a day. Time to make compromises to have different meaningful lines of action during your games.

So these are my opinions. I think I am speaking for most of us when I say I want to see these changes, and I personally cannot wait for the announcement (soon maybe?). I am not saying I got these right but I am hoping for at least 11/12 correct guesses. Too da loo.

Quote from Oddling77 >>

I think all wild cards should be free and available to all players. It's a lot less popular than standard, and the entry cost is way to high to newer players.

 Well that doesn't seem reasonable. For one you'll annoy everyone who paid for those cards, a load of them will have only been released a year earlier and for another, that seems like a terrible business decision in that you absolutely would lose a load of players to wild and wild only. People who may pre order will likely think "what's the point? I get these cards for free soon anyway."

These are the sort of suggestions that just seem really unhelpful to me. You have to accept that they need to make money etc so instead of purely going with a view that is completely pro player, you need at least some middle ground that's pro business as well.

'just make it free' just seems incredibly unrealistic and isn't going to further the discussion of what reasonable changes could actually be made. 

Quote from Stupidusername >>

you can't believe that zephyr sucks right now becouse you play him right and never got a bad choice. Stuuuuuupid

 that's the whole point of the discussion, he doesn't suck if you know how to play him and it still works. if you think this is stupid I can only imagine you don't know how to play him but believe you do and wonder why you still get bad outcomes...

if he got worse for you since new cards got introduced, you need to adapt to these new cards when playing him. you can't expet the card itself to do this job for you. a card like Burning Blade Acolyte for example will be a problem for zeph bc for him it's just a 1/1 with some deathrattle. you as the player know more about the card, so you need to tell him what to do

Quote from Gray_Fox >>

Lol, again the saaaame answer. I know how Zeph works, he just doesn't offer what I need! Even guided he is a total derp.

Your similiar posters above stated that Zeph might offer transform for high mana deathrattle minions. The only thing I agree with is Faceless here, getting 10 mana 7/7 deathrattle minion is awesome for 5 mana. But Why Seline? The minion is deathrattle and 10 mana, why would I want to destroy it and give my opponent deathrattle? If he would offer variety, he would offer the damned transform effect. getting rid of 10/7/7 deathrattle for 4 mana is not efficient? WOW! It is better to kill it so opponent gets deathrattle (I'm not stating that Zeph knows what deathrattle) or maybe put 5/6 to board? Don't be silly, those offers before are total whack too. For a "perfect card" he is pretty lackluster. I had often Zephrys offer me total bullshit card guiding him to 4 mana with Blood of Ghuun and 5/5 obsidian statue on board to only give me minions that no one plays and kill spell. Transform should be ALWAYS offered with enemy deathrattle minion on board. Thats the meaning of perfect card.

In short Zeph sucks. No argument will help to make him look good. He actually offered better options when he was released. 

It's Seline because it's mana efficient, kills the deathrattle minion and puts an 8/8 on the board. Yes, it will cause the deathrattle to trigger, but that is worth it.

For 4 mana you prevent the deathrattle and remove 7 damage from the board but then leave a minion and have 4 mana left over. That's worse for Zephrys. If you want a poly effect, play him on 6 mana and you will get it.

He won't offer two removal options and the Temple Enforcer doesn't matter as that is the variety option. In the same way you could complain why you don't get Nether, Flamestrike and Blizzard at the same time as there are situations where either is better.

The cards are "perfect" for the weights attached to the situations and the rankings for each card not for your understanding of the game situations and deductions you make.

Zephrys offers a wide variety of good solutions when you know how to play him.