I mean, when you compare it to things like Cavern Shinyfinder and Corsair Cache, it's safe to say this is the sort of card that enables archetypes. That said, my knowledge of those two cards suggests that there's usually a specific weapon you're looking for (Spectral Cutlass or Kingsbane for rogue, and Ancharrr for warrior). I think Shaman has some options already in use that could be impactful enough, such as The Fist of Ra-den, Jade Claws, potentially (though perhaps that's too weak of an option to sub in for existing jade options).
Now, that said, with some of the new options we've been given (the attack synergies), it could be that simply having a more reliable way to acquire weapons is worthwhile. In wild, I could imagine this card in Even Shaman, but in standard, I wouldn't expect the synergies to be strong enough to really take hold of the meta. (Grain of salt, obviously, I've been entirely wrong about these things before)
I mean... I'm not saying no to it? I'm not gonna craft it, but if I get one, I'll probably put it in a murloc shaman just to have some fun. I mean, if your murloc board survives, it's a free reload, with bigger minions than your individual murlocs, but the problem is getting your board to survive. Feels, ultimately, like a worse Witch's Cauldron.
So, 2 points: Against aggressive decks: This card is just a 6 mana 8/8 (which could potentially lose you the game if you somehow end up going to fatigue). IDK, man, it's alright enough, I guess. Depends whether you're already dead on board by 6.
Against Control decks, and especially combo decks: This card coming down against a combo deck could very reasonably be an insta-concede.
On net, how good it is depends on the prevalence of aggro vs. combo going from 'Eh,' to 'Oh god' (as well as on how solid a controlling warlock playstyle is).
Additionally: This card is honestly pretty solid as an aggro card, ignoring the corrupt effect. Shaman ran their 4 mana 7/7. Fel Reaver saw play in certain decks. 6 mana 8/8 mill 5 is honestly not unreasonable, but... Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect to see it run in Aggro.
Well, this exists in a similar design space to Anubisath Defender, which did see some level of play, though not as a focal card. My intuition would suggest that the 'corrupt' mechanic is weaker that the 'this turn' option, since if you draw into this, it won't be precorrupted by what you've been doing. Additionally, the corrupting price is 8 mana, rather than 5.
To its credit, spells are a pretty restrictive requirement, and opening that up to any card, and any class really opens up your options. You could, for example, put down a Tirion Fordring, and flank him with strongmen.
That said, a deck that's running Tirion is probably a duel deck, and while a 6/6 isn't bad, per se, it's not what you want off of Duel! or Commencement. A warlock might play out a twisting nether, and follow up with one of these, or a particularly brutal mage might Pyroblast you in the face (or just drop the box) and use these to buy themselves space.
But perhaps the most interesting use of this card is to cover the weaknesses of certain other lategame cards. It used to be that some cards had massively impactful effects, but did nothing on the turn you played them out (take The Mistcaller for a smaller example).
So let me offer a set of minions that Strongman makes significantly more viable:
Big Bad Archmage (Still not a deck worth running), Emeriss (Seriously, that's 2 free 12/12s with taunt on the board? If you can make it to turn 10 in wild, then this is a deck to watch out for), Ancient Void Hound, Lord Jaraxxus (still not safe, but closer), Master Oakheart, Nethrandamus (Taunts now guaranteed), Rattlegore (Already viable, but no longer dead the turn he comes out), Ysera, Ysera, Unleashed, Doomcaller (And you've already gotC'Thun as an option in that deck) Gruul is still just stats, but less so. You also have spell options like Survival of the Fittest (Side-note: Even with double Embiggen, Survival still corrupts these guys, meaning you're playing free 14/14s, potentially), Tree of Life (Y'all remember that card?) and of course, Twisting Nether which you can now follow up in striking fashion.
Now, I want to make something clear: I don't think all of these cards will see play just because of strongman. Not at all. Most of those cards are basically below what you want a payoff card to look like these days (looking at you Ysera. I loved you back in the day, but a 4 mana 7/6 is not good enough, these days.) Nor am I saying that Strongman will even see play at all; after all, you need to be surviving to turn 8+ to get the payoff, and you need to already have it in hand; that means it's a dead card until then. If every slot matters, then you can't afford something that combos past turn 8. That said, if you are making it to that point, and you're drawing hard enough to get access to both the combo pieces, then strongman helps you overcome the problem of 'oh no, I played my one 10-mana minion this turn, and it did nothing on board, and now they'll just kill me with board, and I won't survive long enough to get the long-term boost. A pair of 6/6 with taunt is a pretty good start, and it deserves further testing.
Cards I'm especially curious about: Emeriss, and Survival of the Fittest. The rest are interesting, but are either already played, or not good enough to be meta-defining.
Also, with Emeriss, too, we have the already memetic deck built around bulking up your charge minions to absurd levels and, at the end, smOrcing them all in. Seriously, you duplicate one King Krush, hit them with Emeriss, and Beastmaster Leoroxx is like, a pretty easy OTK. Previously, Emeriss would have been the bottleneck, and you'd either have to pray that you didn't just die from the tempo loss or find another buff option, and duplicate twice. If Emeriss is suddenly tempo-viable (Again, two 12/12s with taunt, that's 32/32 on the board, AKA more than The Ancient One), then the deck is much simpler to pull off.
Survival of the Fittest, Likewise, would love a deck where you can spam out a pair of free 10/10s.
Hmm... I think I smell potential here. See, the fact that it's only while in your hand is weak, but when you stack in something like Nethrandamus, you've got a card that's starting to fit into an archetype of sacrificing the weak for greater power.
This brings us up to 3 cards (that is, 5 cards in a deck) that can profit off of that, with this, Nethrandamus, and Wrathscale Naga. Stack all of that together, and a picture begins to emerge of a demon hunter deck that's based around maximum card turnover, and low cost, expendable minions.
Theoretically, what you'd want is to start off with one card to exploit your minions, and then things like Crimson Sigil Runner and Coordinated Strike. Potentially interesting. Probably not actively good, though.
Hmm... This is promising in that 'low cost mech magnetize' paladin deck. On the downside, it would lower the reliability with which you could get the cards you need... On the other hand, it could potentially double your massive card investment for only 2 mana, making you less vulnerable to single target hard removal.
If I'm honest, this card kind of unnerves me. The statline, of course, is extremely solid, meaning that, if you're a mage, and you've got some damaging spells, this is a card you could reasonably just throw into your deck, and it'd probably be pretty good. That's not so much the bit that worries me, here.
What worries me is any mage deck that's based around absolutely blasting out spells; the sort of deck that runs, for example, Evocation, and hopes for cheap spells. Now, fair play, to play this card, and two Sorcerer's Apprentices (which is really the optimal setup you'd want) is 9 mana, and maybe if you've reached 9 mana, it's already too late in the game, but when I look at this card, the plain and simple fact is that I see absurd levels of potential, and I feel like any card that can be, for example, a far cheaper Malygos (or even higher), is a card worth keeping an eye on.
See, one of these just feels wrong. A single card of wildly varying description based on a theoretically cosmetic effect? That's not something you want to see.
But... If you added another, say, dozen cards with the same concept, then that's a whole archetype. Give them synergies, and you might have something that, if you can put it in the right shell, can be a reliable powerhouse (though, to be clear, I doubt even with synergies that it would be reliable enough to run).
This alone, on the other hand, will probably see a similar level of play to Marin the Fox, and for similar reasons.
As weird as it sounds, what they're doing makes a lot of sense. When you release a new class, nobody will know how to play it, meaning that whatever happens, people are going to be noodling around for a bit like newborn deer. More to the point, it's not gonna be easy to reliably release something that's truly balanced right out the gate.
The problem is, if you release a weak version of the class, what you'll get is a bunch of people trying it, deciding they don't like it, and then not touching it. Then, when you get around to buffing it to a balanced state, people just... aren't playing it. That means less data, and less ability to tell whether the class is actually good, or whether it's still too weak.
By starting in an overtuned state, everyone plays it, and you can pretty immediately figure out what needs nerfing.
Leastways, that's about what I've heard happen in DotA, and I'm assuming Blizzard is doing something like that here.
1
I mean, when you compare it to things like Cavern Shinyfinder and Corsair Cache, it's safe to say this is the sort of card that enables archetypes. That said, my knowledge of those two cards suggests that there's usually a specific weapon you're looking for (Spectral Cutlass or Kingsbane for rogue, and Ancharrr for warrior). I think Shaman has some options already in use that could be impactful enough, such as The Fist of Ra-den, Jade Claws, potentially (though perhaps that's too weak of an option to sub in for existing jade options).
Now, that said, with some of the new options we've been given (the attack synergies), it could be that simply having a more reliable way to acquire weapons is worthwhile. In wild, I could imagine this card in Even Shaman, but in standard, I wouldn't expect the synergies to be strong enough to really take hold of the meta. (Grain of salt, obviously, I've been entirely wrong about these things before)
1
I mean... I'm not saying no to it? I'm not gonna craft it, but if I get one, I'll probably put it in a murloc shaman just to have some fun. I mean, if your murloc board survives, it's a free reload, with bigger minions than your individual murlocs, but the problem is getting your board to survive. Feels, ultimately, like a worse Witch's Cauldron.
Nice statline, though.
1
So, 2 points:
Against aggressive decks: This card is just a 6 mana 8/8 (which could potentially lose you the game if you somehow end up going to fatigue). IDK, man, it's alright enough, I guess. Depends whether you're already dead on board by 6.
Against Control decks, and especially combo decks: This card coming down against a combo deck could very reasonably be an insta-concede.
On net, how good it is depends on the prevalence of aggro vs. combo going from 'Eh,' to 'Oh god' (as well as on how solid a controlling warlock playstyle is).
Additionally: This card is honestly pretty solid as an aggro card, ignoring the corrupt effect. Shaman ran their 4 mana 7/7. Fel Reaver saw play in certain decks. 6 mana 8/8 mill 5 is honestly not unreasonable, but... Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect to see it run in Aggro.
12
Well, this exists in a similar design space to Anubisath Defender, which did see some level of play, though not as a focal card. My intuition would suggest that the 'corrupt' mechanic is weaker that the 'this turn' option, since if you draw into this, it won't be precorrupted by what you've been doing. Additionally, the corrupting price is 8 mana, rather than 5.
To its credit, spells are a pretty restrictive requirement, and opening that up to any card, and any class really opens up your options. You could, for example, put down a Tirion Fordring, and flank him with strongmen.
That said, a deck that's running Tirion is probably a duel deck, and while a 6/6 isn't bad, per se, it's not what you want off of Duel! or Commencement. A warlock might play out a twisting nether, and follow up with one of these, or a particularly brutal mage might Pyroblast you in the face (or just drop the box) and use these to buy themselves space.
But perhaps the most interesting use of this card is to cover the weaknesses of certain other lategame cards. It used to be that some cards had massively impactful effects, but did nothing on the turn you played them out (take The Mistcaller for a smaller example).
So let me offer a set of minions that Strongman makes significantly more viable:
Big Bad Archmage (Still not a deck worth running), Emeriss (Seriously, that's 2 free 12/12s with taunt on the board? If you can make it to turn 10 in wild, then this is a deck to watch out for), Ancient Void Hound, Lord Jaraxxus (still not safe, but closer), Master Oakheart, Nethrandamus (Taunts now guaranteed), Rattlegore (Already viable, but no longer dead the turn he comes out), Ysera, Ysera, Unleashed, Doomcaller (And you've already got C'Thun as an option in that deck) Gruul is still just stats, but less so. You also have spell options like Survival of the Fittest (Side-note: Even with double Embiggen, Survival still corrupts these guys, meaning you're playing free 14/14s, potentially), Tree of Life (Y'all remember that card?) and of course, Twisting Nether which you can now follow up in striking fashion.
Now, I want to make something clear: I don't think all of these cards will see play just because of strongman. Not at all. Most of those cards are basically below what you want a payoff card to look like these days (looking at you Ysera. I loved you back in the day, but a 4 mana 7/6 is not good enough, these days.) Nor am I saying that Strongman will even see play at all; after all, you need to be surviving to turn 8+ to get the payoff, and you need to already have it in hand; that means it's a dead card until then. If every slot matters, then you can't afford something that combos past turn 8. That said, if you are making it to that point, and you're drawing hard enough to get access to both the combo pieces, then strongman helps you overcome the problem of 'oh no, I played my one 10-mana minion this turn, and it did nothing on board, and now they'll just kill me with board, and I won't survive long enough to get the long-term boost. A pair of 6/6 with taunt is a pretty good start, and it deserves further testing.
Cards I'm especially curious about: Emeriss, and Survival of the Fittest. The rest are interesting, but are either already played, or not good enough to be meta-defining.
Also, with Emeriss, too, we have the already memetic deck built around bulking up your charge minions to absurd levels and, at the end, smOrcing them all in. Seriously, you duplicate one King Krush, hit them with Emeriss, and Beastmaster Leoroxx is like, a pretty easy OTK. Previously, Emeriss would have been the bottleneck, and you'd either have to pray that you didn't just die from the tempo loss or find another buff option, and duplicate twice. If Emeriss is suddenly tempo-viable (Again, two 12/12s with taunt, that's 32/32 on the board, AKA more than The Ancient One), then the deck is much simpler to pull off.
Survival of the Fittest, Likewise, would love a deck where you can spam out a pair of free 10/10s.
10
Ah, the hot new meme combo: Demon Hunter with Yogg.
Take Blur, and pray for roasting. 5% of the time, it wins every time.
2
Hmm... I think I smell potential here. See, the fact that it's only while in your hand is weak, but when you stack in something like Nethrandamus, you've got a card that's starting to fit into an archetype of sacrificing the weak for greater power.
This brings us up to 3 cards (that is, 5 cards in a deck) that can profit off of that, with this, Nethrandamus, and Wrathscale Naga. Stack all of that together, and a picture begins to emerge of a demon hunter deck that's based around maximum card turnover, and low cost, expendable minions.
Theoretically, what you'd want is to start off with one card to exploit your minions, and then things like Crimson Sigil Runner and Coordinated Strike. Potentially interesting. Probably not actively good, though.
0
Hmm... This is promising in that 'low cost mech magnetize' paladin deck. On the downside, it would lower the reliability with which you could get the cards you need... On the other hand, it could potentially double your massive card investment for only 2 mana, making you less vulnerable to single target hard removal.
0
If I'm honest, this card kind of unnerves me. The statline, of course, is extremely solid, meaning that, if you're a mage, and you've got some damaging spells, this is a card you could reasonably just throw into your deck, and it'd probably be pretty good. That's not so much the bit that worries me, here.
What worries me is any mage deck that's based around absolutely blasting out spells; the sort of deck that runs, for example, Evocation, and hopes for cheap spells. Now, fair play, to play this card, and two Sorcerer's Apprentices (which is really the optimal setup you'd want) is 9 mana, and maybe if you've reached 9 mana, it's already too late in the game, but when I look at this card, the plain and simple fact is that I see absurd levels of potential, and I feel like any card that can be, for example, a far cheaper Malygos (or even higher), is a card worth keeping an eye on.
0
See, one of these just feels wrong. A single card of wildly varying description based on a theoretically cosmetic effect? That's not something you want to see.
But... If you added another, say, dozen cards with the same concept, then that's a whole archetype. Give them synergies, and you might have something that, if you can put it in the right shell, can be a reliable powerhouse (though, to be clear, I doubt even with synergies that it would be reliable enough to run).
This alone, on the other hand, will probably see a similar level of play to Marin the Fox, and for similar reasons.
9
As weird as it sounds, what they're doing makes a lot of sense. When you release a new class, nobody will know how to play it, meaning that whatever happens, people are going to be noodling around for a bit like newborn deer. More to the point, it's not gonna be easy to reliably release something that's truly balanced right out the gate.
The problem is, if you release a weak version of the class, what you'll get is a bunch of people trying it, deciding they don't like it, and then not touching it. Then, when you get around to buffing it to a balanced state, people just... aren't playing it. That means less data, and less ability to tell whether the class is actually good, or whether it's still too weak.
By starting in an overtuned state, everyone plays it, and you can pretty immediately figure out what needs nerfing.
Leastways, that's about what I've heard happen in DotA, and I'm assuming Blizzard is doing something like that here.
10
Oh hey, did anyone else notice that the Battlegrounds stats screen probably means that Giant Sand Worm is probably slated to be added?
0
If you stand in the right ****ing place, there is no way, you are going to ****ing get into the god damn whelp pit.
0
I think it's worth noting that this doesn't actually work with Dragonsbane, since dealing damage breaks stealth
0
A. Solid card, and if dragons are as prevalent as they seem like they'll be, it's 100% going to see play.
B. Am I the only one who's kinda bothered by the fact that we have 'dragon-breeders' in a world where dragons are legitimately sentient creatures?
0
For those keeping score at home, that is not what Nozari is supposed to look like.