Hearthpwn

What are you talking about.

The card is still OP. The reason it doesn't win very much is because people are forced to play aggro, to avoid getting destroyed by Deck of Lunacy or Control Warlock in the late game.

That's why we have this horrible aggro meta. 

"Well, it can be avoided by playing aggro"

Why do people avoid it? Because it's OP. No non-aggro deck can win against it. That's why.

Listen. The card IS OP. That's why people choose to play aggro, anyway, to avoid being destroyed by Tickatus.

That's why control archetype is in such a dead spot right now, it's partly because of Control Warlock and Tickatus.

Unfortunately, yes.

This is all Warlock, Mage, and Druid's fault, actually.

Every single non-aggro deck gets eaten alive by Control Warlock, DoL Mage or Ramp Druid.

All 3 of them have their fair share of problems.

It has been changed. 0 cost minions still transform into another 0 cost minions.

Be very careful, though, as Corrupt cards have one interaction that, if you don't know, can cost you the entire game.

If your Corrupt card has a temporary discount, like for example Tickatus discounted to 5 Mana by Demonic Studies, then when you play a card that is supposed to corrupt it (activator) AND also removes the discount, like for example Priestess of Fury, the system will compare the activator's discounted cost to Tickatus' cost AFTER it loses the discount. So, in this case, the system compares Priestess of Fury's discounted 6 Mana cost to Tickatus' 6 Mana (not 5) cost, and therefore, Tickatus isn't corrupted by Priestess of Fury.

I think this is because of the structure of the Hero Power class in Hearthstone's code.

The class probably has an attribute called isUsed, probably in boolean type, which has value False if the Hero Power hasn't been used, or True if it's been used.

Tour Guide probably adds a discount attribute to the Hero Power object.

I think Reckless Apprentice triggers and removes the discount attribute, but does not trigger hero power's isUsed attribute.

In short, I think it's a minor interaction bug, but I think the bug is from Tour Guide's code, not Reckless Apprentice's.

What makes it even better is that it isn't an OP card. Stats-wise, it's worse than Psych-o-Tron, which is a bad card.

I do think one of the decks that run it, which is Beast Hunter, needs adjustment, though, since it's too easy to pull off a huge burst damage.

Quote from TheSpunYarn >>

Your point about Deck of Lunacy being bad in Darkmoon Faire is contradicted by the present meta.  Because you're correct - Lunacy Mage gets crushed by extreme aggression, Face Hunter is the current standard counter to the deck.  But if it was that simple, the meta would have adapted towards all extreme aggression as people farmed Mages.  Paladin works on aggro, which keeps aggro in check.  Paladin being as strong as it is keeps aggro decks with a very popular bad matchup, meaning people are less likely to play it and Mage has better matchups that way.
Likewise, the consistency of the cards you get from Lunacy is exactly why it's as strong as it is.  You're correct that the discount is powerful, but a 3 mana discount always being placed on certain cards that are extremely powerful is why it matters at all.  Furthermore, Incanter's Flow making the cards cost even LESS gives 4 to 5 free mana on semi-random cards that are already powerful.  If the pool was as varied as it was in Darkmoon Faire, we'd be back at square one - a massive pool of garbage cards that you don't really want to play even when they're discounted is what held the card back.  The pool is smaller, the spells on average more powerful, and therefore Deck of Lunacy is more insane.

All that to say - yeah Lunacy Mage crumples to aggro, but Paladin makes aggro worse so it's less of an issue now.  So since the meta has less aggression, Mage does get a leg up.  However, that wouldn't matter if Lunacy wasn't as consistent as it is.
You're correct, from what appears to be happening, Mage needs to be hit again.  The 2 mana nerf, while intense, doesn't address the problem Deck of Lunacy poses.

Also, I don't know if I agree with the conclusion you've come to outside of card analysis (where I myself am not totally confident), I don't think that the response from Blizzard in the form of these specific nerfs are them "doing what the community asked".  Regis in particular wasn't requesting anything, he was making predictions, and that's what most community members do when they make videos like that.  I think the reason the changes match the predictions is that they were made by people who understand how Blizzard makes these changes, and have a solid grasp on what might be good changes.

 Well, you answered your own question yourself.

You indirectly asked "Why didn't the meta adapt towards extreme aggression?"

Then you said "Paladin keeps aggro in check"

Well, first of all, it keeps EVERYTHING in check. It's currently the most OP class.

Second, that's the point. You want to run aggro decks, but Paladin will counter you. 

Third, even if you run aggro decks, you win against Mage, great, but you'll lose against everything else, especially Control Warlock that adapts to counter aggro by running lots of AoE like Fire Breather, Hellfire, and School of Spirits.

The balance changes have come out.

From the looks of it, Hearthstone's balance team took the community's feedback and just put it into the balance changes without reprocessing the rationale between the feedback.

The changes look very familiar.

Deck of Lunacy is changed from 2 Mana to 4 Mana. Many YouTubers asked for this, and their argument is that 4 Mana will slow Mage down. Sword of the Fallen is changed from 3 Durability to 2 Durability. Even more people and YouTubers asked for this than Deck of Lunacy. Jandice Barov is changed from 5 Mana to 6 Mana. I remember Regiskillbin called this exact nerf in one of his videos. The Watch Posts have -1 Health. This one did not really come from the community, because if I'm not mistaken, the community asked for -1 Attack instead of -1 Health.

Now, taking community's feedback at face value and putting it into balance changes directly is NOT a good idea. I know this because I was a Clash Royale player. Back then, Supercell asked the community for a balance change idea. They asked whether they should buff Archer or Dart Goblin. Archer needed the buff, because it was being overshadowed by Spear Goblin. However, the community asked for Dart Goblin's buff instead. Dart Goblin ended up being OP and Supercell had to nerf Dart Goblin in a way that did not revert the buff. It was a disaster. Supercell never asked for community's feedback for balance changes ever again.

Now, that aside, let's talk about balance changes and why it didn't work on Mage and Paladin.

Well, the reason is simple: They didn't hit the OP part of the cards.

Let's talk about Deck of Lunacy first.

People say Deck of Lunacy is OP because it's now consistent. I highly disagree with that argument. IMO, the reason why Deck of Lunacy is OP is pretty simple: "There is a spell. What if the spell costs 3 Mana cheaper?" Get it? Deck of Lunacy is OP because it simply gives too much value for its cost. It's Incanter's Flow, but it discounts by 3 instead of 1, and pre-nerf, it was at the same Mana cost.

Now, why was Deck of Lunacy not playable before the rotation? IMO, the reason why it wasn't playable back then is because before rotation, the meta was a LOT more aggressive. Every single class except Mage and Priest had a playable aggro deck. Chance of winning by turn 5 is a lot higher. Doing nothing was a lot more punishing back then. Even at 2 Mana, Deck of Lunacy was a lot harder to play, because of the risk of doing nothing. It doesn't really have anything to do with consistency.

Now, why did the nerf not work? IMO, the reason is because it's still very valuable at 4 Mana. Remember, No Minion Mage is COMPLETELY FINE without Deck of Lunacy. No Minion Mage without Deck of Lunacy has only like 5% lower win rate than No Minion Mage with Deck of Lunacy (NOTE: The statistics here are BEFORE the nerf). Mage can totally defend itself for 2 turns no problem. They should've hit the value generated by the card instead.

Now, we move on to Sword of the Fallen.

Sword of the Fallen is OP because it tutors and casts OP Paladin Secrets. Paladin's Secrets are OP in value. Avenge is a 1 Mana guaranteed +3/+2, Oh My Yogg! is a 1 Mana Counterspell. A lot of them are OP for 1 Mana, but, they're most of the time a waste of draw and space in your hand. Most Rogues don't really play Secrets unless they add cards to the hand like Dirty Tricks and Plagiarize, and it's for the same reason. Paladin's Secrets' weakness is that they are a waste of space in the hand. Sword of the Fallen completely removes all aforementioned weaknesses. Paladin doesn't have to hold the Secrets in hand, and therefore, they don't become a waste of draw and space in hand.

-1 Durability does not really mean anything. Paladin does not really care about casting 1 less Secret, because they've already maximized the value by bypassing the limitation of the 2 Secrets. They should've done one of these two things instead:

1. Change the tutor ability of Sword of the Fallen. Instead of drawing and casting it, the weapon should either draw the Secret to the hand or cast the Secret from hand.

2. Change the Secrets. Nerf Avenge and Oh My Yogg! in particular.

Those are my two cents about the balance changes. I'd love to know what you think about the balance changes.

First of all, I'd like to thank people here for being civil, and that I don't see any "Lmao Bronze player shut up" comment here.

I love me a detailed balance suggestion, so I'd like to respond to this.

1. Tickatus

I'm just going to be blunt here about this one: I dislike your balance change suggestion for this card.

Why:

First of all, it changes pretty much nothing. The purpose of burning cards is to disrupt opponent's combo, and this does not change really anything. You mentioned something about using the spell nature of the ticket cards, but it only really benefits Rogue, Pen Flinger users, and Mage, probably (I don't think people really play Mozaki, Master Duelist). This change is useless for everyone else.

My alternative change: Keep its burning effect, Increase its Mana cost to 8, Increase its stats to 12/12.

Rationale:

I actually like gimmick-based cards, like Highkeeper Ra and The Ancient One, and Tickatus fits into this category. Disrupting combo cards exist way before Tickatus. Rin, the First Disciple also disrupts opponent's strategy. However, Tickatus's problem is that it is too easy to corrupt, and therefore, too easy to be played to burn cards, and be regenerated by Y'Shaarj, the Defiler. Increasing Mana to 8 makes Tickatus a LOT harder to corrupt, removing Twisting Nether and Enhanced Dreadlord's ability to corrupt it. This change will highly slow down the combo disruption and force Warlock to readjust their decks. The stats increase is to make up for the Mana increase, because stats-wise, the current Tickatus is fine.

2. Lord Jaraxxus

Your suggestion is reasonable, but I don't agree with it.

Why:

I'd like to think of Lord Jaraxxus's weapon as his way of directly participating in the match, so I like its high durability. I think its weapon is fine, because it is balanced by the fact that you pay 9 Mana to only gain 5 Armor and +3 Attack, which is very weak compared to other Hero cards. I am a Warlock player, and I understand that Lord Jaraxxus is a bit too powerful.

My alternative change: Keep its weapon 3/8, Increase its Mana cost to 10.

Rationale:

Lord Jaraxxus's role is always to outlast the opponent in the late game by slowly outvalue them with moderate, indefinite pressure. However, I think the card is a little bit too powerful for the cost, considering it can immediately be supported by Strongman. Its 9 Mana cost also allows for a famous Jaraxxus + Coin + Hero Power. So, by increasing its Mana cost to 10, Lord Jaraxxus will be forced to slow down and the aforementioned combo no longer works.

3. Sword of the Fallen

I like the durability reduction change, but I honestly dislike the Discover buff very much.

Why:

Discover allows Paladin to choose which Secret to put onto the battlefield. Right now, even random Secrets from the weapon are enough to jack up Paladin's win rate. Adding Discover will cause even worse disaster. I'd like to keep the Secret placement random.

4. Oh My Yogg!

I agree wholeheartedly with this suggestion.

Why:

Spells transformed into by Oh My Yogg! can sometimes be a useless, or even a self-damaging spell (if you plan to damage a minion, but it transforms into a buff spell). For 2 Mana, it might be fine, but for 1 Mana, it's outrageous.

5. Avenge

I agree with this suggestion, but I also have an alternative change.

My alternative change: With the same activation condition, give all your minions +1/+1 instead of +2/+2 to a single minion.

No rationale for this one. I'm fine with either change.

6. Crossroads Gossiper

Your suggestion is OK, but I don't agree with it. 

Why:

+2/+1 will reduce its power, but IMO it will still be oppressive. It will still deal the same damage and will destroy the same minion (if you attack it with a minion). Crossroads Gossiper's problem is that its stats become gigantic simply because of one boost, and it can still get stronger. 6/4 or 5/5 is still huge stats for 3 Mana.

My alternative change: Keep the +2/+2 boost, reduce its stats to 2/3.

Rationale:

This change will boost Crossroads Gossiper to 4/5 for one activation, which is higher than average, but not outrageously higher. I think the problem of Crossroads Gossiper is not necessarily in its boost, but in its base stats. Health higher than Attack allows Crossroads Gossiper to stay longer on the battlefield to keep buffing itself from Secrets, since that's its purpose.

7. Refreshing Spring Water & Deck of Lunacy

I agree with this suggestion. With that being said, I'm skeptical about whether or not it would balance the card. I doubt it, but we'll just have to see about it.

8. Apexis Blast

This card is honestly fine. No changes needed.

Why:

No Minion Mage has been running Apexis Blast since before Forged in The Barrens expansion and the deck wasn't really that strong back then.

9. Jandice Barov

I highly disagree with your suggestion, even though it's fine.

Why:

I'd like to keep flavors of the card intact. For example, Mordresh Fire Eye is a 10 Mana 10/10 that deals 10 damage. Keep it that way. Don't change the damage dealing to 5, it will destroy the flavor. If you wanted a nerf, change something else like it hits minions only or it requires 20 Hero Power damage instead of 10. Same as Jandice Barov, it's a 5 Mana minion that summons two 5 cost minions. I'd like to keep it that way.

My alternative change: Which of the minions that die when they take damage is chosen randomly instead of chosen by player, and it's visible to the opponent.

Rationale:

Jandice Barov is oppressive because Rogue can easily abuse the secret choice. For example, the 5 cost minions summoned are Burning Blade Acolyte and Firework Elemental. Of course the Rogue will choose the former. This results in the choice almost means nothing and it ends up almost purely summoning 2 random 5 cost minions for 5 Mana. Another problem is the fact that not only its value is very high, the opponent is punished extremely badly simply because they choose wrong. This change will stop Rogue from abusing the restrictions of the card. The card will still be very powerful IMO, especially if it high rolls.

10. Pen Flinger

I don't agree with this suggestion.

Why:

Your suggestion doesn't really solve the problem IMO. I don't think damage output is the problem for Pen Flinger. Reducing its damage output would hurt the card. Efficient Octo-bot reduces the cost back to 1, keeping its flexibility.

My alternative change: Increase its Mana cost to 2 Mana, Increase its stats to 2/2, Increase its Battlecry damage to 2.

Rationale:

Pen Flinger's problem is not its damage output. Its problem is its flexibility. Being able to trigger Frenzy effects, enable Prize Plunderer, remove Divine Shield, etc. I'd actually like to keep its damage output, but reduce its flexibility. This change will keep the overall damage output (or even boost it, because it will require less spells to return it to the hand for the same damage, or the same amount of spells for double the damage), but reduce its flexibility.

11. The Watch Posts

I'm going to make it quick for this one. I think they should have 1 less attack, but 1 more Health, because they're built to survive, not to deal damage.

Because high cost minions are not played. They are cheated. Look at King Krush. Who unironically spends Mana to play King Krush?

Nobody. You don't play King Krush. You cheat it using Leoroxx or Brann.

There's no way to cheat the Dragons. Also, you don't want to cheat them, since they're good because of the Battlecry effects.

I honestly don't like it. Cheating high cost minions is honestly not fun. But, I honestly have no idea how to solve the problem.

Very funny.

First of all, drawing DoL twice in 100 games doesn't make sense statistically, since without mulligan, chances of mage pulling DoL first turn (including first draw) is around 3/30 + 1/27.

After mulligan, the chance is increased to around4/27.

Also, DoL's problem is NOT necessarily about how fast it can be drawn, because even turn 5 DoL is still rather busted. IMO, its problem is how powerful the effect is for just 2 Mana.

Okay, so a week has passed since Core set and new expansion's release date, and while the meta hasn't completely settled, I think we can agree that we already have our own list of cards (or at least one card) that need to be changed. Here is my list.

Please note that this is just an opinion, please don't be rude, get to the point and state where you agree or disagree with (for some reason, this is not a given on the internet)

1. Sword of the Fallen

2 Mana weapon with the capability of casting a total of 3 Secrets from your deck. Secret Paladin is a deck with the highest win rate on HSReplay. Iksar also has stated something about nerfing Mage and Paladin, so you can expect a nerf is coming for one of the cards, and I expect that the nerfed card will be this card. I think the appropriate nerf is to either increase its Mana cost to 3 or reduce its stats to 1/2.

2. Deck of Lunacy

To be honest, I called this one back when Madness at The Darkmoon Faire expansion came out. This is Incanter's Flow, but it reduces the cost by 3 instead of 1 for the same cost. That's how broken it is. Many people say that Mana increase to 4 is enough. I disagree. Increasing Mana cost will only slow the deck SLIGHTLY. It's not like they can't do anything if they don't use the card. Mage can totally defend itself just fine. Conjure Mana Biscuit still sees play, even though it literally does not give any Mana advantage. I think the appropriate nerf for this card is to either reduce the cost increase of spells to 2 instead of 3 or by introducing Shaman-style RNG to it (spells it transforms will be 1-3 cost higher instead of strictly 3 cost higher).

3. Refreshing Spring Water

This card is ridiculous on No Minion Mage, and probably has like 100% use rate on decks by every Mage player that has the card. This card on its own is a 0 Mana draw 2. With Incanter's Flow, this card can literally generate Mana. I have been complaining about Skull of Gul'dan for a year, and even that card is not this ridiculous. At least Skull of Gul'dan requires you to spend 6 Mana and cannot generate extra Mana. I think the appropriate nerf is to increase the cost to 5 Mana.

4. Pen Flinger

This card is ridiculous because of how flexible it is, especially in Paladin and Rogue decks. It enables a lot cards like Prize Plunderer and Efficient Octo-bot and is also enabled by a lot of cards like Libram of Wisdom and Shadowstep. People say to nerf this card to 2 Mana 2/2 deal 1 damage. I don't know about that. I think the card is dead if you nerf it that way. I think the appropriate nerf for this card is to make it 2 Mana 2/2 deal 2 damage. It might sound pointless, because the damage output will be the same, but trust me, it will be very different. This will make Rogue think twice before using it to trigger Frenzy effect, because it is now a waste of 2 Mana instead of 1. It also reduces Prize Plunderer's damage output, because less cards will be played in a turn.

5. Beastmaster Leoroxx

Beast Hunter deck is a very consistent pseudo-OTK deck. It can easily draw all the cards that you need using Scavenger's Ingenuity, Tracking, and Warsong Wrangler. It can copy Beasts from your deck using Selective Breeder. It can draw Beastmaster Leoroxx or your remaining King Krush using Taelan Fordring or Lorekeeper Polkelt. This results in a rather consistent turn 8 burst damage or even lethal, with no way to prevent it. I think the appropriate nerf for this card is to reduce the number of Beasts summoned to 2 from 3, and maybe increase its stats as well to something like 6/6.

I also experienced that bug in Android version of Hearthstone. Sometimes, even 2 minions showed up as the bug.

Is it a major bug? Does it block you from having 7 minions on the field? So far, I haven't tested it, but if it does, then the bug is a HUGE problem.

Increase the Mana cost to 8 and stats to 12/12.