Hearthpwn

People have said their opinions here, so instead of doing the same, I will just debunk a counter argument to why Devolving Missiles is OP:

"It's not that useful if you transform 3 5 Mana minions to 3 4 Mana minions"

Yeah, using Flamestrike on a board with one 1/1 minion is bad, as well, what's your point?

There's a good and bad condition to everything.

Blizzard clearly didn't playtest their balance changes.

They didn't play the game, either.

They literally said that they liked this meta, even though this meta is one of the most hated meta in the history of Hearthstone.

I'd say here are some changes that can make Shaman's Hero Power better:

1. Make Shaman able to fill the board with Totems, not just 4.

2. Nerf the Totems to 0/1.

3. Add more basic Totems, and change some basic Totems.

Existing Totems:

- Stoneclaw Totem: 0/1 Taunt

- Strength Totem: 0/1 At the end of your turn, give another random friendly minion +1 Attack

- Searing Totem: 1/1

- Healing Totem: 0/1 At the end of your turn, restore 1 Health to all friendly characters.

- Wrath of Air Totem: 0/1 Spell Damage +1

New Totem Ideas:

- Protection Totem: 0/1 At the end of your turn, give another random friendly minion +1 Health

- Wind Rush Totem: 0/1 Rush, Windfury

- Tremor Totem: 0/1 Rush, Poisonous

- Cloudburst Totem: 0/1 At the start of your turn, Silence a random enemy minion

- Magma Totem: 0/1 At the end of your turn, deal 1 damage to a random enemy

- Stormlash Totem: 1/1 Charge, Windfury, Deathrattle: Gain Overload: (2)

- Elemental Totem: 0/1 At the end of your turn, add a 1/1 Elemental to your hand (It costs 0 Mana).

- Generator Totem: 0/1 At the end of your turn, add a random Totem to your hand.

4. Change Shaman's upgraded Hero Power to "Discover a basic Totem twice and summon them".

5. The Hero Power becomes "Discover a basic Totem and summon it" instead of summoning a random basic Totem.

Ah yes, Druid, a class where either you destroy your opponent with seven 8/8 Carnival Clowns on Turn 7 and seven 6/4 minions on Turn 5 or get destroyed by aggro or board clears.

And all this is simply because Blizzard still tries to stick to a terrible design choice that is class identity. Class identity is horrible because it reduces diversity so badly. This is not an RPG game like WoW, let the classes have all things needed to be diverse like board clears, group buffs, single buffs, removals, small minions, medium minions, big minions, and more. Don't limit them.

Guys, I beg of you, please stop the Warlock-Priest argument and move it somewhere else.

I made this thread because I genuinely wanted to know what the community thought about stronger board control cards and high cost minions.

I don't want this thread to be locked because I still want to know what people think. Thank you.

Quote from Strongpoint >>

Quote from IDProG123 >>

Because greedy players want stronger board clears, right? Board clears DESTROY greedy players. Greedy players hate strong board clears. Ramp Druid hates Twisting Nether.

Last thing, nobody is saying Ramp Druid is a balanced deck. It's a part of the reason why people play aggro, alongside Control Warlock.

Oh... You think that greed = making your deck full of big dumb idiots... Greed is trying to win solely on value while ignoring tempo. Board wipes (especially one-sided) are value cards. They are made for 1 for 2(3\4\5)ing your opponent.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, especially your last sentence.

Greedy play is a play where you put lots of big minions on the field and buff them to be ready to deal huge damage next turn. Corrupted Carnival Clown is a greedy play. Buffing minions are greedy plays.

Board control cards punish greedy plays by eliminating the value planted on enemy minions.

Quote from Tyk3 >>

Quote from IDProG123 >>

Quote from Strongpoint >>

Another greedy player who wants to nuke board-centric aggro away from existence.

Another player who fails to understand class identity, that druid is meant to be bad with interacting with the board, hunter is meant to be bad in board clears, etc.

 

But this post does have something new! It offers the game in which ramp druids will annihilate everyone by dropping huge minions on turn 3-4

 "Druid is meant to be bad with the board"

Show me where Blizzard says this.

Poison Seeds, Swipe, Starfall, Explosive Trap would like to disagree with you.

Board control cards can exist, regardless of class. They don't violate class' identity.

"Greedy player"

Because greedy players want stronger board clears, right? Board clears DESTROY greedy players. Greedy players hate strong board clears. Ramp Druid hates Twisting Nether.

Last thing, nobody is saying Ramp Druid is a balanced deck. It's a part of the reason why people play aggro, alongside Control Warlock.

 https://dotesports.com/hearthstone/news/blizzard-outlines-class-identity-in-hearthstone

Druid

Strengths: Mana generation, giant minions, minion swarms, card draw, Beasts

Weaknesses: Destroying big minions, board clear.

 Thank you for actually showing actual proof. I appreciate it, genuinely.

However, many cards violate the identities already. For example, Conditioning (Rank 1) for Warrior and Man'ari Mosher for Warlock.

Quote from schnitzel >>

I like how this guy says that board clears are too weak because minions have too much health, then proceeds to argue that we need to give minions more health.

This comment is ignorant. Let me show you all that's wrong with this comment.

1. Board clears are too weak because they're weak for its Cost, NOT because minions have too much Health.

2. We need to give HIGHER COST MINIONS more Health (and Attack), NOT ALL minions.

Quote from Strongpoint >>

Another greedy player who wants to nuke board-centric aggro away from existence.

Another player who fails to understand class identity, that druid is meant to be bad with interacting with the board, hunter is meant to be bad in board clears, etc.

 

But this post does have something new! It offers the game in which ramp druids will annihilate everyone by dropping huge minions on turn 3-4

 "Druid is meant to be bad with the board"

Show me where Blizzard says this.

Poison Seeds, Swipe, Starfall, Explosive Trap would like to disagree with you.

Board control cards can exist, regardless of class. They don't violate class' identity.

"Greedy player"

Because greedy players want stronger board clears, right? Board clears DESTROY greedy players. Greedy players hate strong board clears. Ramp Druid hates Twisting Nether.

Last thing, nobody is saying Ramp Druid is a balanced deck. It's a part of the reason why people play aggro, alongside Control Warlock.

1. Board Control Rework

The reason aggro becomes very common in this meta is because board controls are either missing or lacking in power. Like, seriously, this card pool in this case is borderline EMBARRASSING. Look at Druid. Literally the only removal it has are Lunar Eclipse and Bogbeam, both of them only deal 3 damage. Even Hunter has more and better board controls. Another point, look at Rancor. The card is terrible against aggro, despite what its effect suggests. The card just costs too much, and yes, it gives Armor, but it hits your minions as well, and most aggro minions have more than 2 Health on turn 4, so the Armor effect is pretty much useless, anyway. You probably will only gain 2 to 8 Armor most of the time. Other bad board control cards that I am aware of are Lightning Storm, Sigil of Flame, Bola Shot, Molten Blast, Chain Lightning (Rank 1), Unstable Felbolt. Board control cards need to be buffed. With 4 Mana, you can destroy a minion. That means you should be able to deal around 10 damage to a minion with just 3 Mana, and 12 damage to a minion with 4. For board clears, Twisting Nether destroys all minions with 8 Mana, so, the same as single attack, an 8 Mana board clear card should be able to deal up to 12 damage to all minions, 7 Mana board clear should be able to deal around 10 damage to all minions, and it scales down like that, though 1-3 Cost board clears should deal damage equal to its Cost to still make aggro viable. And last thing, I'd like to see more board clear cards in the next expansion or two.

2. High Cost Minions Rework

High cost minions are pretty weak right now. My #1 suggestions will kill them immediately. So, it's just fair to rework higher Cost minions as well. Although, that is not the primary reason why I want high cost minions reworked. The primary reason is that they have higher risk to play. Start with 5-7 Mana minions. Hearthstone has a quite consistent standard stat distribution for 3-7 Cost minions, in which a minion can only have stats equal to its Cost and +1/+1. However, since 4 Mana can destroy a minion completely, minions that cost more than 4 Mana should have higher stat distribution to make up for it. For 5-6 Cost, they should have +2/+2 instead; for 7 Mana, +3/+3. For 8 Cost, it should be something like +4/+4 or +5/+5. For 9-10 Cost, the stats should be something like 15/15 or even 20/20 for 10 Cost. Lastly, of course this is only for minions with raw stats and no effect. For minions with effects, just adjust the stats.

Well, the point of Wild is to play OLD cards and decks. So, "Wild" and "new player" are pretty much an oxymoron IMO.

Because Secrets are what makes Paladin powerful. I would even argue that they are the OP part of current Paladin.

Using Smythe removes Secrets (yes, only temporary, but even 1 turn is crucial against decks like aggro, and you'll want your Secrets active to protect yourself against spells or attacks directed to face).

If Smythe's effect is like Dragoncaller Alanna's, it might be a different story.

The flavor of Oh My Yogg! is that it resembles Yogg Saron's casting random spells.

If I were to fix Oh My Yogg!, I would change the text from

"[b]Secret: [/b]When your opponent casts a spell, they instead cast a random one of the same Cost"

to

"[b]Secret: [/b]After your opponent casts a spell, cast a random spell of the same Cost.

So, instead of transforming the opponent's spell, the user casts a random spell of the same Cost.

It still fits the Yogg Saron flavor.

Quote from Finalstan >>

As it is now, it's a 1-cost Counterspell and it's busted for that reason. 1/10 cases you get a decent result.

 It's actually a lot worse. Unlike Counterspell, Oh My Yogg can turn your spell into negative spells.

For example, if you want to deal damage to a minion, Oh My Yogg can turn your damaging spell into buff spells, and if it happens, you're absolutely screwed.

This thing is a mistake for 1 Mana.