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    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from EternalHS >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

     Funny respons. Indeed no Department of Game Investigation.....yet. Look at Google, MS en Apple. Big tech are scrutinized on different levels by state actors and international regulations. The game industry is very big. In the EU pricing loot boxes is forbidden. Need to get accustomed to the idea to scrutinize on the level of MMR and RNG. 

    You seen to be a firm believer that Blizzard is not rigging. Funny. you don't need any proof to believe in holy Blizzard. It's called religious.Maybe Blizzard is a god for the multitudes.

     You want me to prove Blizzard is NOT rigging the system? You know that it's not possible to prove a negative, right? I don't consider Blizzard "holy." I consider it a sensible, risk-adverse corporation that understands there's no meaningful upside to manipulating the MMR or RNG, and a huge downside.

    As for investigations, those are typically launched based on, wait for it, EVIDENCE. You know, the stuff you can't be bothered to collect? "Everybody knows" is not evidence. Hideous streaks of bad luck are not evidence. Deranged ideas of evil corporations trying to scam $20 off you is not evidence. Actual hard numbers are. Do you draw card X more often against one deck than another? Does your opponent draw his card more often than percentages say he should? That's real evidence. And you've got none.

    So you consider them 'a sensible, risk adverse corporation.'  Reason why you not thinking they are rigging the game. I like your gullibility and lack of critical thinking - quod non.  Remember Enron 2001?  A showcase of financial frauds:https://www.cbsnews.com/media/top-14-financial-frauds-of-all-time/  

    Frauds only possible because nobody ask serious questions....till it was too late.

    (showcase only an example among many others based on all thrusting types like you). 

     Again, you draw your knowledge of corporate behavior from stupid Hollywood movies and even stupider politicians. There are hundreds of large corporations out there, and the vast majority of them obey, to the best of their ability, the law. You're focusing on the exceptions. (As an aside, frequently, when these firms do get penalized for something, it's the result of legitimate disagreements over how to interpret an existing regulation, not a result of a company saying "We know this is illegal, but we're doing it anyway." The government's regulations are often quite confusing.) I never said the company was full of saints. It's got nothing to do with trust: it's entirely a matter of the company's own self-interest. The gaming industry is extraordinarily competitive, and there's substantial personnel movement between firms. So people who used to work in senior positions at Blizzard are now likely at all its competitors. Why wouldn't they anonymously leak this fraud to the government or media? It would crush Blizzard and help its competitors. Rigging the RNG is not something that can be done by only a few people: it would be widely known among much of the development team. So why hasn't this come to light? The obvious answer: because it's not happening. The risk/ reward simply doesn't justify it.

    Again, show me evidence, tough guy. Actual data. If it's sooooo obvious, it shouldn't take you long. Truth is, you can't.

     Lots of words, trying to turn things around while you don't have the proof of not rigging. Ever heard of non disclosure agreements? You don't sell out. The competition will not trust you then when you want to work for them. Your sofism won't help you this time.

    Hooghout, even you should know that "guilty until proven innocent" doesn't hold in a debate. That is how our society functioned in the Medieval times. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused and you have presented none. No, "other companies did it" isn't evidence.

    You brought the accusation so you need to present evidence to back it up or else your accusation doesn't have any ground to stand on.

     You're a believer. And one can't argue with believers in the goodness of Blizzard.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

     Funny respons. Indeed no Department of Game Investigation.....yet. Look at Google, MS en Apple. Big tech are scrutinized on different levels by state actors and international regulations. The game industry is very big. In the EU pricing loot boxes is forbidden. Need to get accustomed to the idea to scrutinize on the level of MMR and RNG. 

    You seen to be a firm believer that Blizzard is not rigging. Funny. you don't need any proof to believe in holy Blizzard. It's called religious.Maybe Blizzard is a god for the multitudes.

     You want me to prove Blizzard is NOT rigging the system? You know that it's not possible to prove a negative, right? I don't consider Blizzard "holy." I consider it a sensible, risk-adverse corporation that understands there's no meaningful upside to manipulating the MMR or RNG, and a huge downside.

    As for investigations, those are typically launched based on, wait for it, EVIDENCE. You know, the stuff you can't be bothered to collect? "Everybody knows" is not evidence. Hideous streaks of bad luck are not evidence. Deranged ideas of evil corporations trying to scam $20 off you is not evidence. Actual hard numbers are. Do you draw card X more often against one deck than another? Does your opponent draw his card more often than percentages say he should? That's real evidence. And you've got none.

    So you consider them 'a sensible, risk adverse corporation.'  Reason why you not thinking they are rigging the game. I like your gullibility and lack of critical thinking - quod non.  Remember Enron 2001?  A showcase of financial frauds:https://www.cbsnews.com/media/top-14-financial-frauds-of-all-time/  

    Frauds only possible because nobody ask serious questions....till it was too late.

    (showcase only an example among many others based on all thrusting types like you). 

     Again, you draw your knowledge of corporate behavior from stupid Hollywood movies and even stupider politicians. There are hundreds of large corporations out there, and the vast majority of them obey, to the best of their ability, the law. You're focusing on the exceptions. (As an aside, frequently, when these firms do get penalized for something, it's the result of legitimate disagreements over how to interpret an existing regulation, not a result of a company saying "We know this is illegal, but we're doing it anyway." The government's regulations are often quite confusing.) I never said the company was full of saints. It's got nothing to do with trust: it's entirely a matter of the company's own self-interest. The gaming industry is extraordinarily competitive, and there's substantial personnel movement between firms. So people who used to work in senior positions at Blizzard are now likely at all its competitors. Why wouldn't they anonymously leak this fraud to the government or media? It would crush Blizzard and help its competitors. Rigging the RNG is not something that can be done by only a few people: it would be widely known among much of the development team. So why hasn't this come to light? The obvious answer: because it's not happening. The risk/ reward simply doesn't justify it.

    Again, show me evidence, tough guy. Actual data. If it's sooooo obvious, it shouldn't take you long. Truth is, you can't.

     Lots of words, trying to turn things around while you don't have the proof of not rigging. Ever heard of non disclosure agreements? You don't sell out. The competition will not trust you then when you want to work for them. Your sofism won't help you this time.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from TheFubar >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

     Funny respons. Indeed no Department of Game Investigation.....yet. Look at Google, MS en Apple. Big tech are scrutinized on different levels by state actors and international regulations. The game industry is very big. In the EU pricing loot boxes is forbidden. Need to get accustomed to the idea to scrutinize on the level of MMR and RNG. 

    You seen to be a firm believer that Blizzard is not rigging. Funny. you don't need any proof to believe in holy Blizzard. It's called religious.Maybe Blizzard is a god for the multitudes.

     You want me to prove Blizzard is NOT rigging the system? You know that it's not possible to prove a negative, right? I don't consider Blizzard "holy." I consider it a sensible, risk-adverse corporation that understands there's no meaningful upside to manipulating the MMR or RNG, and a huge downside.

    As for investigations, those are typically launched based on, wait for it, EVIDENCE. You know, the stuff you can't be bothered to collect? "Everybody knows" is not evidence. Hideous streaks of bad luck are not evidence. Deranged ideas of evil corporations trying to scam $20 off you is not evidence. Actual hard numbers are. Do you draw card X more often against one deck than another? Does your opponent draw his card more often than percentages say he should? That's real evidence. And you've got none.

    So you consider them 'a sensible, risk adeverse corporation.'  Reason why you not thinking they are rigging the game.I like your gullibility and lack of critical thinking - quod non.  Remember Enron 2001?  A showcase of financial frauds:https://www.cbsnews.com/media/top-14-financial-frauds-of-all-time/  

    Frauds only possible because nobody ask serious questions....till it was too late. 

     It sounds like the lack of evidence is the reason he believes Blizzard isn't rigging.  Asking questions is perfectly fine btw, but when the only 'evidence' being presented comes from people complaining they lost to bad rng...why on earth should we suddenly jump to the conclusion that Blizzard is rigging the system?

    I say BAD rng, but honestly what most people here present doesn't even qualify.  Drawing the 'perfect' card from their deck?  Discovering the card they needed to win?  Playing a bad matchup multiple times in a row?  Really?  These are apparently the kind of things that only a rigged system could deliver.

     I'm not talking about bad faith here. And you assume people reaching legend or play high level won't complain about RNG. Maybe they do, you don't know that. It is cynical to assume only bad players complain about RNG. 

    It's more conceptual here. Zephrys e.g is officially rigging the board state. A.I can do that so why not covert. For what reasons? Tell me, to keep the game fast paced, serving a target audience, ensuring a preconceived meta, increase pack selling, stimulating f2p to buy packs......

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

     Funny respons. Indeed no Department of Game Investigation.....yet. Look at Google, MS en Apple. Big tech are scrutinized on different levels by state actors and international regulations. The game industry is very big. In the EU pricing loot boxes is forbidden. Need to get accustomed to the idea to scrutinize on the level of MMR and RNG. 

    You seen to be a firm believer that Blizzard is not rigging. Funny. you don't need any proof to believe in holy Blizzard. It's called religious.Maybe Blizzard is a god for the multitudes.

     You want me to prove Blizzard is NOT rigging the system? You know that it's not possible to prove a negative, right? I don't consider Blizzard "holy." I consider it a sensible, risk-adverse corporation that understands there's no meaningful upside to manipulating the MMR or RNG, and a huge downside.

    As for investigations, those are typically launched based on, wait for it, EVIDENCE. You know, the stuff you can't be bothered to collect? "Everybody knows" is not evidence. Hideous streaks of bad luck are not evidence. Deranged ideas of evil corporations trying to scam $20 off you is not evidence. Actual hard numbers are. Do you draw card X more often against one deck than another? Does your opponent draw his card more often than percentages say he should? That's real evidence. And you've got none.

    So you consider them 'a sensible, risk adverse corporation.'  Reason why you not thinking they are rigging the game. I like your gullibility and lack of critical thinking - quod non.  Remember Enron 2001?  A showcase of financial frauds:https://www.cbsnews.com/media/top-14-financial-frauds-of-all-time/  

    Frauds only possible because nobody ask serious questions....till it was too late.

    (showcase only an example among many others based on all thrusting types like you).

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from TallStranger >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

    Remember Hearthstone is a children's game. If it was a game of adults we would consider the lack of balance, the mindless aggressive stupidity and the lack of (win condition) diversity unacceptable. Adults would demand furthermore an independent investigation to assess RNG and matchup being free of rigging. 

    That's utopia. Based on anecdotical experience of millions  the question is not if the game is rigged, but when it will come to light. It's like the Higgs Boson. An elementary particle. Theorized in 1964, proven by experiment in 2012. Took a long time, but in the end everything comes to light.

    It might surprise you, but there's this silly little thing called intellectual property. See, when someone spends substantial amounts of time and money creating a product (such as the MMR), they tend to not like the idea of other people, you know, reviewing it. Allowing outsiders access to the code is a great way to have it leaked. Once leaked, competitors will emulate/ refine it, and players/ hackers will exploit it.

    And exactly who is going to do this "independent investigation" of the RNG? The government? You know there's no "Department of Game Investigation," right? Who's going to pay for it? You? If Blizzard paid for it, you'd reject the findings instantly.

    If you and the rest of the tinfoil hat crowd want to do an investigation, go for it. Publicize your methodology, record your games so we know you're telling the truth, collect your data, and test your hypothesis. It's funny: every time someone dares you nuts to do this, you always find a reason not to. Or you play a few dozen games and pretend that proves anything. "I got 4 Galakrond rogues IN A ROW! RIGGGGGGGED!"

    I find your signature amusing, since your questions lack courage and your answers lack depth.

     Funny respons. Indeed no Department of Game Investigation.....yet. Look at Google, MS en Apple. Big tech are scrutinized on different levels by state actors and international regulations. The game industry is very big. In the EU pricing loot boxes is forbidden. Need to get accustomed to the idea to scrutinize on the level of MMR and RNG. 

    You seen to be a firm believer that Blizzard is not rigging. Funny. you don't need any proof to believe in holy Blizzard. It's called religious.Maybe Blizzard is a god for the multitudes.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness

    Remember Hearthstone is a children's game. If it was a game of adults we would consider the lack of balance, the mindless aggressive stupidity and the lack of (win condition) diversity unacceptable. Adults would demand furthermore an independent investigation to assess RNG and matchup being free of rigging. 

    That's utopia. Based on anecdotical experience of millions  the question is not if the game is rigged, but when it will come to light. It's like the Higgs Boson. An elementary particle. Theorized in 1964, proven by experiment in 2012. Took a long time, but in the end everything comes to light.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from Psy_Kik >>

    Humanities tendency to see patterns that aren't there, believe in fate, supersititions, gods, etc is enough to make me question anyone who claims hearthstone runs algorithms against its players base in a shady way to maximise packs sales. I'm not saying the incentive for Blizzard isn't there, I'm just saying to my mind, it's outweighed by a humans natural capacity to see puppet strings when there are none. Chaos is frightening, if we can control the chaos or prove someone else is doing so, it is not so frightening.. it's often just wishful thinking.

     And it is also a human tendency to be gullible.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from slice_of_pi >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

    Inhale. After your sigh you might want to consider just that.

     There isn't any good evidence to support the claim that they are doing it.  Almost everything everyone thinks is "evidence" is purely anecdotal.  Also, if it is happening, wouldn't you also think there should be anecdotal accounts of "HS is rigged!  Look at how good my RNG was in these game!" 

    There isn't any evidence to support the claim that they are NOT doing it. And there's plenty of reasons why they are doing it. 

     

     And yet you couldn't even read point (3) where I explain why such statements are logically absurd.

    *sigh*

    Nice try though.

     And for those who are like "prove it isn't", you can't prove the non-existence of something; it's logically impossible as you can't find evidence of something that doesn't exists, because then the evidence doesn't also exist, and you can't find it.  But you can find of evidence of a thing that might exist... such as RNG rigging in Hearthstone.... but on that topic...

    Inhale again. 

    Ever heard of Carl Popper? Phylosophy of mind. All swans are white. A trueism untill you see a black swann. Knowledge is always temporary.  Thruth becomes untrue when you falsify it. The problem with Blizzard is that you can't fasify anything as they secure the data/ MMR/ RNG-mechanics from scrutiny. And if you can't falsify you must approach claims of thruth with scepticism.

    Not finding evidence of something that doesn't seem to exist assumes that that something indeed doesn't exist. As I can't falsify your claim, it must be untrue. Only if and unless you can proof that what is not is not, your statements remains just hot air.

    You may exhale now.....nice try though.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from slice_of_pi >>
    Quote from Nimehte >>
    Quote from laadeedaa >>
    Quote from Hooghout >>

     

    There isn't any evidence to support the claim that they are NOT doing it. And there's plenty of reasons why they are doing it. 

    There isn't any evidence to support the claim that your mother is NOT a Nazi war criminal.... Do you see the fault in reasoning here? 

     

     possibility of his mother being nazi war criminal is lower than you win lottery 5 times in a row. But possibility of Blizzard rigging rng is atleast %50. Why? because it is proven that they can do it.

     And yet, notice your own word choices: "can do it" versus "are doing it".  The fact the "card" game is digital is all that is needed for the possibility of hidden manipulation that is being discussed here to be occurring.  Are you human Nimehte?  Yes?  Then you can be a criminal.  I guess that's all we need then to throw you in jail, right?

    Reason why I call Blizzard worshippers claiming there is no manipulation pseudo-intellectuals. Since there is no independent confirmation of the goodness of Blizzard in the field over RNG - and matchup in order to get the desired winrate balance related to pack selling, we must assume the worst and cautious to draw conclusions that favor Blizzard.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness

    Inhale. After your sigh you might want to consider just that.

     There isn't any good evidence to support the claim that they are doing it.  Almost everything everyone thinks is "evidence" is purely anecdotal.  Also, if it is happening, wouldn't you also think there should be anecdotal accounts of "HS is rigged!  Look at how good my RNG was in these game!" 

    There isn't any evidence to support the claim that they are NOT doing it. And there's plenty of reasons why they are doing it. 

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Serious question on randomness
    Quote from 3nnu1 >>
    YQuote from 1xbenx1 >>
    Quote from DickDraggin >>

    As a poker player I understand perception bias.  I also have a basic understanding of statistics.

    Knowing that they can, I have a hard time trusting that they never influence RNG without full disclosure to us.

    I would appreciate a clear statement from the Devs as to any case of manipulated RNG from cards or a statement that it never occurs.

     I appreciate that you're not approaching this from a completely tinfoil hat perspective.

    But I have to ask, what would be the purpose of manipulating RNG?

    Who benefits if RNG is manipulated? Who loses? Why is one person being picked to win over another, because someone is always winning at the expense of someone else? Is any of this worth the effort of manipulating hundreds of thousands of games per day? Is any of it worth completely tanking the competitive integrity of a product they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in?

    Conspiracy theories always sound intriguing until you start asking these types of questions. Then you realize, they're largely impractical and don't hold water.

     It is called player engagement. Algorithims are developed to keep the maximum amount of players playing. Frustration plateaus are built in to inspire spending. If you do research into the term player engagement in F2P games, you will see that a ton of differing strategies are used with one goal in mind, keep as many players playing as possible and get them to spend as much as possible. 

    Activision has actually patented methods to influence matchmaking https://www.pcgamer.com/activision-wins-patent-that-uses-matchmaking-to-make-you-want-to-buy-stuff/ . Have you ever noticed that if there is a popular deck out there with some legendaries out there that you don't have that you will frequently que into that deck and he will get a nuts draw and curbstomp you? That is the type of thing that this patent refers to. 

    This is a 10 minute video that pretty much sums up what most games are up to these days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_QaTtvI2tg

    You will notice that the shills on this site will never outright deny this stuff is going on. They will bring up perception bias, call you a conspiracy theorist or demand proof. The reality is it is foolish to believe that there is any randomness in hearthstone, and once you know what is going on, you can game the system to reach the goal you have in mind. 

    This is a long video from 2012 that goes deeply into the hows and why's blizzard manipulated matchmaking in starcraft. Long story short, player engagement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4TjH2SdDOQ

    It becomes extremely difficult not to assume rigging of sorts. Still there will be echo chamber pseudo-intellectuals who will keep defending Blizzard by assuming critics either such at the game or are uneducated in its workings. A conspiracy theory in itself.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Battlegrounds is a stupid waste of energy.

    As always Blizzards actions are political in nature to regulate and divert attention of the mindless crowd not to get gutted. The repulsive nature  of card design is even for the hardened skill hating player difficult to bare. Battle ground was conceived to that end. 

    Those wanna play a game of skill notice the diversion with battlegrounds.

    Posted in: Battlegrounds
  • 0

    posted a message on This game is no fun anymore
    Quote from TardisGreen >>
    Quote from FortyDust >>
    Quote from JarlBallin >>

    When was the last time this game was genuinely fun with all 9 classes without having to rely on Aggro or boring-ass Control decks?

     About two weeks between the nerf that reverted Luna's Pocket Galaxy and the patch that added Evolve.

    Two weeks is all Blizzard can manage before they screw things up again. This time we didn't even get that much.  OP Shaman was replaced with Hypercontrol Priest, and here we are.

    Do you ever do anything other than whine and cry?

     Do you do anything other than kiss developers ass?

    Posted in: Standard Format
  • 0

    posted a message on Quest Priest is a problem - here's why
    Quote from guyopt >>

    In high ranks players have the "tools" and game understanding to play fairly vs Priests,

    In rank 10-20 most players are very casual and many has limited collection and knowledge,

    As a result match vs Priests feel like a bad game experience - since Priest players are usually more skilled and the class has great tools to abuse new or no low skilled players.

    Well I don't think noobs at rank 5 suddenly become skilled players  handling priests, since by default they play low skill aggressive ranking up. Regardless the rank, priests, even for skilled players, go down by default against a noob playing bloodlust shaman.

    The reason why the skill floor is that low is to give noobs the rush of ranking up with an appropriate deck. In HS reaching legend has little to do with skill, more with the cunningness to appreciate the combination of RNG and RPS.

    But I agree that priests are generally more skilled players.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Quest Priest is a problem - here's why
    Quote from guyopt >>
    Quote from hillandder >>
    Quote from kitox_me >>

    quest priest is a noob eater

     Exactly.

     

     think Blizzard should ban priest in the low ranks and allow it from Rank 10 (or 5)

    just replace the noob 'problem'  to higher ranks. An excellent solution.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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