Hearthpwn

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from MProdigy >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

Hearthstone induces rage because it is interwoven in the total fabric of the card game. They have at Blizzard good psychologists to maximally market the inner workings of the human psyche. Rage keep you playing and buy packs in a feeble attempt to beat the feeling.

Take for example the absence of auto squelch. Emoting can be a concentration breaker. Squelching every time isn't comfortable. Induced rage sells packs. 

The most profound reason however to rage is that skill and strategy don't win you games. Mindlessness does. Only those rage who realize the dehumanizing aspects involved in that choice.

 

 This. Well put. To think this design is unintentional would be a mistake. Blizzard knows how to market. To bad they spend more money there than in design. 

Oh, yeah, they are masters of manipulation, and I love it, but guess what? There is nothing wrong about it and they are not worse than the most "humble" and "goody" person that has ever existed.

 Sigh....

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

From the delicate field of ethical reasoning (ethics, who cares about that?), complainer marketing derives from a reprehensible, derogatory, distorted mind. But once again, who cares?  As long as packs are sold, we all settle for the lesser men.

"The delicate field of ethical reasoning"??? Dude, please, stop... Just stop!!! In this shitty world, ethics are generally extremely impractical, usually making anyone who supports their opinions on them a dreamer who lives in another dimension and is out of touch with reality. But hey, just for you to know, here is a good example of ethical behaviour: Not acting arrogantly and attacking/insulting others every time someones disagrees with you, even on the internet, while talking about ethics. And guess what? That's is exactly how you bahave all the damn time. Hypocrisy at it's finest, my friend.

Claiming Blizzard's procedures as bad because they seem to be unethical is extremely childish... Nothing more, nothing else.

 You again! I see you lack training in ethical skills. A unfortunate finding among Millennials.

Quote from GetchX >>

Quote from YellowDisease >>

Zephrys can be a game winning card, but it does limit your deck options most of the time to the extent that it compensates for itself. Having only one copy of each card in your deck limits your consistency considerably.

 This.

People who hate on zephrys are likely winning the game and then that card is played and the game swings.  Don't forget that you likely were winning because the opponent had a severely limited deck due to this card.

 But then this ' severely limited deck' is well compensated with Zephrys, isn't it?

Don't forget the probable reason for printing this card: if the AI is deciding the game through non-skill oriented game swing, developers can control win rates of classes. Then to push the win rate of the class in which Zeph. is played, the opponent is forced to lose.

A such Zeph. is a tool for designers to rig win rates. If skill and strategy doesn't win you the game, what will? Mindlessness en randomness?  Right this is hearthstone.

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

 

 

Quote from Alp2760 >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

Hearthstone induces rage because it is interwoven in the total fabric of the card game. They have at Blizzard good psychologists to maximally market the inner workings of the human psyche. Rage keep you playing and buy packs in a feeble attempt to beat the feeling.

Take for example the absence of auto squelch. Emoting can be a concentration breaker. Squelching every time isn't comfortable. Induced rage sells packs. 

The most profound reason however to rage is that skill and strategy don't win you games. Mindlessness does. Only those rage who realize the dehumanizing aspects involved in that choice.

 

 Any research or data to back up 'rage sells packs'? Or are you just vomiting bullshit onto the Internet like so many others like to do? 

 https://ideas.ted.com/anger-is-fire-for-creativity-and-its-time-to-let-it-burn/

http://www.myishacherry.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/angerpm.pdf

This is good enough for you...

 I love it when people throw up links with vaguely related-sounding URLs in the vain hope that no one will actually click them.

We could go on for hours about the poor methodology and logic involved in your links, but I'm not going to do that, because none of this is remotely related to Hearthstone unless we would all be willing to take your original premise for granted, a requirement that basically eliminates them as evidence for the premise in the first place.

I understand you have some bone to pick with Blizzard, but name me the team of psychologists who have enacted the sinister scheme to make us buy packs via frustration in not having an auto-squelch.

Any such argument only serves to hold Blizzard in HIGHER consumer standing than almost any other multi-player game developer out there today.  That is a bold claim, I admit, but I actually have evidence to back it up.

Name me three other games where the default condition is to not allow chat between players.  Seriously, I'll wait.

If the premise is that having to listen to emotes for the first half second of a game before you can right-click a portrait and left-click "squelch" contributes to anger and rage, then certainly having to listen to potentially racist, threatening, and otherwise unpleasant chat directly from one's opponents (or teammates, for that matter) must contribute to the same anger and rage on a much higher order of magnitude.

In other words, Hearthstone is tailor-made to REDUCE anger and rage by almost completely forbidding non-consensual communication between players.  To rag on the lack of auto-squelch is to show a complete lack of perspective in how consumer-friendly Hearthstone is compared to the rest of the industry.  Again, all of this is based on the ridiculous premise that communication between players is somehow a net negative feature of the game, but a lot of you seem to be up at arms that someone might get in a "Greetings, Traveler!" under your manual squelch, so I have to work with it.

 

So, I have now shown you that under your own definition, Blizzard is FAR more considerate of player's feelings with regards to negative inter-player communication.  League of Legends, Dota, Counter Strike, Starcraft, etc. etc. etc. all start with default inter-team or inter-player free chat and require the player to proactively block the feature.  Fortnite is a little "better" (under your definition) without the direct chat, but still much more abrasive than Hearthstone with taunts and dance moves, and the ever-present tea bag.  By comparison, Hearthstone is very insulating of its players, and features one of the easiest blocking/squelching mechanisms of all of the aforementioned games.

As to the concept of "mindlessness" being the way to win in Hearthstone, that's a facially absurd claim that would require extreme evidence to substantiate.  However, you use such emotionally charged language, I assume "mindlessness" is just another generally derogatory term on par with "greedy" or my personal favorite in the Hearthstone community . . . "polarizing".  We would have to agree on some form of objective definition, after which it would be trivial to disprove the claim.

 

TL;DR:  No, it's not good enough for anyone.

 Ever heard of complainer marketing? I guess not. Create conditions for complaint  --- Divide --- Draw attention ----Rule. The entity in the White House is a living example. His Twitter feed is legendary. Blizzard uses the same principles:

For example:

Not doing auto squelch: (create conditions for complaint in anticipation of rage)  --- Divide (critics vs bandwagon defenders)  ---  Draw attention (through fora like Hearthpwn/twitter/others) ---- Rule the waves.

This goes the same for printing overpowered cards: create rage --- divide --- draw attention --- Rule.

Imbalances are deliberately constructed. Creates a fuss, rage, debate, therefore attention and that is good for the game: people will keep buying their packs. That is how complainer marketing works.

The is no such thing as bad publicity. For Blizzard as for the Entity in the White House: attention is everything. Good or bad, who cares? As long as packs are bought.

From the delicate field of ethical reasoning (ethics, who cares about that?), complainer marketing derives from a reprehensible, derogatory, distorted mind. But once again, who cares?  As long as packs are sold, we all settle for the lesser men.

I guess, looking at your avatar you grasp what I mean. Fear the worst.

TL;DR: Create a rumble. Your target audience will always defend you. Sell packs.

Quote from Alp2760 >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

Hearthstone induces rage because it is interwoven in the total fabric of the card game. They have at Blizzard good psychologists to maximally market the inner workings of the human psyche. Rage keep you playing and buy packs in a feeble attempt to beat the feeling.

Take for example the absence of auto squelch. Emoting can be a concentration breaker. Squelching every time isn't comfortable. Induced rage sells packs. 

The most profound reason however to rage is that skill and strategy don't win you games. Mindlessness does. Only those rage who realize the dehumanizing aspects involved in that choice.

 

 Any research or data to back up 'rage sells packs'? Or are you just vomiting bullshit onto the Internet like so many others like to do? 

 https://ideas.ted.com/anger-is-fire-for-creativity-and-its-time-to-let-it-burn/

http://www.myishacherry.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/angerpm.pdf

This is good enough for you...

Hearthstone induces rage because it is interwoven in the total fabric of the card game. They have at Blizzard good psychologists to maximally market the inner workings of the human psyche. Rage keep you playing and buy packs in a feeble attempt to beat the feeling.

Take for example the absence of auto squelch. Emoting can be a concentration breaker. Squelching every time isn't comfortable. Induced rage sells packs. 

The most profound reason however to rage is that skill and strategy don't win you games. Mindlessness does. Only those rage who realize the dehumanizing aspects involved in that choice.

Quote from LaFlame3500 >>

I didn't even read your article bc that was the biggest hater bullshit headline I've read all week

 Seem to me so scientific, well though through, quintessential eloquence: shameless admittance of not reading, but verdict ready. How repulsive and reprehensible one must be ( I know you don't care).

Quote from badhank14 >>

I think the focus needs to go back to class identity.  Zephrys breaks this concept by giving classes cards they don't have access to, including wins that should have never have happened.  What's worse is they gave him an elemental tag so even decks that don't normally run him, can just randomly get it from any elemental generator cards.

Classes need weaknesses otherwise all the decks end up being the same.  Why not just print a Neutral spell at this point that says "Choose One:  Do 3 damage to all minions.  Give your minions +2 attack.  Gain 5 life and Draw 3 cards."

That way classes and decks don't have to think about deck building, you have all your bases covered.

 Right-on, and I firmly believe that Zephfrys is a new tool to control, 'balance' overall win rates.

Quote from LeeroyJerkins >>

It is the greatest card ever made. He told me so himself. I think its fine. It's a tool of all trades and thats what I like about it. Literally works with whatever you're going for. For the sacrifice of doubling up on good cards I'd say keep it. 

 Indeed if you start losing because the opponent happen to outclass, outmanoeuvre and outwit you, you can always play Zephfrys the Rigged....sorry the Great.

Thumbs up for mindlessness.

Quote from EternalHS >>

I didn't even need to open this thread to know that it was made by a shit player who guessed everything wrong in every thread that they made.

However, I'm glad to see that I was correct.

Here, now you can report me again. The wall will keep the Mexicans out of the US but nothing will keep their stupidity out of the internet :/

Dear bandwagoner of card design,

I'm sure you'll agree with me then that these Highlander decks and other aggressive mindlessness - result of card design - is also part of the stupidity of the internet.

Utilization of mindlessness and dumbing down people for marketing purposes, core business of card designers, is all over internet, not just in this thread.

Voted Trump instead of Hillary. Watching Fox rather than CNN? If so, comment is perfectly understandable.

Zephrys the Great or shall I call this card Zephrys the Rigged?

Because that's what it is. Blizzard is manipulating gameplay through AI by default favoritism as to deny skill and stategy to be decisive in outcome.

Over the years there has been steadily doubt if Blizzard through AI is rigging the game in favor of a marketing based target audience. Just search for 'rigged' or 'rigging' to find countless threads on the topic.

There has never been proof as Blizzard doesn't open up for an independent investigation on the matter.

But now undoubtly proven the possibility that it can be done. It should count as 'fun' the increasing influence of AI and increased randomness through cards like Tess Greymane, Dr. Boom. Mad Genius, Shudderwock, Tip the Scales, Puzzle Box of Yogg-Seron and the like, for which there can never skill or strategy based outcome influence. No fun here.

Skill or glorified mindlessness? Marketing says the latter. Ethics say former. Process of being regarded as dumb f*cks  through cards like Zephrys. Way to go. In the end target audience can be regarded as such.

seriously have 0 problem, never had and never will, with aggro decks. The reason why I have problem with Zul'jin is because it isn't a card that fits into the aggro theme that Blizzard has been pushing with hunter, and in so doing, you have a class now that doesn't REALLY (I said really guys, so don't start linking spellstone nerfs, etc...) get the spotlight for nerfs and in so doing, can dominate the meta with other variants.

Indeed Zul'jin doesn't fit hunter at first glance, but it serves the purpose: to nerf is to polarize.

I like the new archetype for hunter with Zul'jin, just from last night on HSReplay, I've gone 5 wins straight to 1 loss - which means nothing right now because it's such a low pool of total games. But that's better than my Quest paladin, which is 4 wins to 1 loss.

:) Nerver let favoritisms take place of truth.

The thing is, I don't know how Blizzard could nerf Zul'jin. I feel like placing him into the Hall of Fame is better, that way he can still be as strong as he is in Wild formats, but in standard, players would be on a much more even ground - considering many heroes don't have access to their hero cards (I miss Frost Lich Jaina in standard).

I'm not into discussions about how to nerf. That is imo irrelevant if you keep maintaining polarization. I'm just an observer how card design/nerf design politics work.

...they understand that for a new player or a player without much money, needs to have access to competitive decks, hence why aggro will never be nerfed, and instead more options will be given to seasoned players to deal with them (like more control decks).

It is unfair to sacrifies skill and strategy for the sole sake of acquiring new players. By the way, I'm not against aggro. I point to polarization as the result of its dominance. Maybe cheapening up legendaries can help. But that is a CEO-concern.

Nerfs are axiomatic and central to card design philosophy Blizzard employs for Hearthstone. Here is the axiom: nerfs are relocated to classes that keep the meta polarized. Hunter is one of the key classes to keep the meta polarized (together with rogue, murloc shaman/paladin: aggressive, skill-low /strategy-low). On the other hand of the equation: control decks from Warrior and Mage. 

Keeping the meta polarized is the core reason for nerfs and other so called 'balance changes.' Therefore perfectly understandable that Hunter isn't nerfed. Consequences are dire: lack of proper balance, classes falling from ladder, low skill floor....but who cares?  Everything for the easy winfix therefore pack selling: serving the target audience.

Marketing based card design counters skill based card design.

Marketing rules the nerf meta, not skill and strategy.

Quote from MProdigy >>

Remember the good old days when the first couple weeks was full of experimentation and building innovative decks? Sure there were always numbnuts playing decks with zero new cards, but overall the beginning was full of trying out stuff and looking for the next crazy synergies. Best time to play HS imho.

Now... it seems like Blizzard wants us to not focus on experimenting because they insist on giving streamers a week of pre-release experience that they know full well people will blindly copy-paste day one after opening and crafting. Of course the meta won’t be settled by any stretch, but it does begin taking shape faster than it should.

And it’s working. I read a post earlier where OP stated that the hype is decreased by Blizzard giving streamers early access and others reamed into him because “that’s the way it is, get over it” nonesense. 

For those who will still come up with their own decks and actually experiment in the early stages of the expansion, I applaud. Thank you for keeping the game interesting. 

 The newest way to manipulate the masses through streamers nudging them to play preconceived decks ranked meta. Part of a long standing tradition inherent to card design to show developers contempt for skill, strategy and diversity.