Hearthpwn

"Why these people know that the game is shit (or just believe that) but keep playing? "

You are getting the things wrong. People not complain cause the HATE the game but because people LIKE the game. When you like something you want that think to be good right? so when something that is not really fun happens in a game that you like, you complain about it because you want to know if more people thinks like you and maaaybe the designers will also figure that something is not really balance or very interactive.

What happens right now? (i will not make this a complain thread dont worry i will say this very fast). A class is just a little over the others in anysense. So every deck of that class is not only playable but also tier 1 or 2 and all those decks shared a couple of "staple" cards of the class that composes almost the 60% of the deck. So they are not just staple, is more like "this class have not different decks just put the same cards and change the legendaries and some other key cards like 4 or 6 and thats it...same deck different win condition, almost the same power" which yeah, its a problem in terms of card games, that is why hall of fame exist in this game in first place to prevent decks to be evergreen forever. Atleast this is the only problem that i see in this days that people repeat in almost every thread.

Simple.  About the RNG i dont thing its really a problem is just salt, when people salt about RNG they dont hate the game, they just have a bad game or a lot of bad games and they want to express that is annoying to get destroyed cause luck every match. People salt every time in IRL or games everytime but they dont stop playing everything (or living...) for a little of rage.

Combo decks in general so i pick druid. Well more than combo decks, i hate not have access to a deck that can dealt with combos in the same solid way that combos perform in this and other digital games.

Like people said "oh if we let them people messed with other players hands everyone will hate that" (which can be true) but no one think a lot of "oh maybe in a RNG base game, when some decks evol to a point that they really erease the RNG of their game plan its not fun to let them OTK or Auto win against other decks that NEED good rng to counter them"

Quote from Splatacleze >>

On today's edition of 'Do You Remember When..."

 Man i feel so glad you used my title to make your thread XD love it. Also yes, i remember when Druid was about rampt or swarm the board more that true combo otk iterations but well Druid first combo was pretty much OTK anyways...the literally only way to OTK with druid if i dont miss remember. So cards like Naturalize were just bad because you give more options to your oponent. Now that oponent options are pretty much irrelevan unless they can 1- kill you 2- destroy your combo, Naturalize loses all their cons. Nourish progress its very similar. When Druid life was not in Warrior levels a card like Nourish could cost you the game because Druid was not supposed to be better than Warrior or Priest in the surviving game. But i supposed classes evol and Druid is one of the most benefit classes (the most benefit class) in the game.

Oh yeah the remember stuff. Remember when Priest was supposed to be the most solid control class and Warrior aside it was the only class that can actually taking more than 50 damage in a match?

You said yourself you need to retain a TECH card for the Plague (and mossy is suicide IF you are aggro most of the times). So if you go aggro and you face combo druid that gets his armor up and plagues working you auto lose most of the times (you can also lose to they taunt recruit mechanics but that can be a little RNG in you favor or...not). So this is when the triangle argument fails.

Right now Combo in some classes like, Druid, is literally an upgrade version of combo (cause is basically a lot of CONTROL TOOLS with combo engine that works pretty super good because Druid has acces to a splash of almost every defensive effect in the game (taunts, armor, AoE, single target removal, hero power that let him trade threats) but also one of the best combo engines in the game with a lot of card draw and pretty solid combo winconditions. And we arent talking about one but atleast 3 tier 1 decks.

So i stand in my position: combo just let contro out of the triangle, and only loses to aggro when they fail in the early game plan. Which is a problem cause aggro should crush combo not "win because combo draw bad on early" and that is pretty much why people is complaining so much. You can try to prove me wrong and i admit you have good arguments to do it but the amount of people saying "i have problems with combos, how i tech against combo druid, am i forced to play warlock if i want to beat druid?" is pretty big this time.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

There are already multiple threads about this.

I'll post the same, watch this video around the 1 hour 42 minutes mark:

 agree with the video about "sometimes its fine have a combo meta or a whatever meta" my issue with this actual combo problem (and probably the issue that everyone is having now with this decks) its the level of survivality that those decks get with the overdefensive cards that are perfect for combo decks but useless for anyother slow deck type. Druid is the best example, when you try to kill druid before he get his combo pieces you need to dealt with 4 or 5 1/5 armor guys (sometimes less but if you are trying to push damage the spreading plague ever push a huge board).

Also you need to dealth with 50 or even more armor gain in all the match and super big taunt minions. Its pretty...unfun. Warlok and shudderwock also have a lot of super defensive stuff that make you not hard but almost imposible to outrace those decks. When you face this stiuations vs a control deck is not a problem cause control decks wins with value and slow plays. But combo decks have not that weakness. They win in the late game with one or just 2 plays.

Quote from Echo_ >>

Quote from HellPawn >>

 

As for being able to play control, you can easily still play control decks but it struggles for a lot of people on this site because taking people to fatigue is not a win condition for control. Things like Malygos druid are just as control heavy as most control decks. They make sure the board is clear, they stabilize and prevent the board from getting too messy, then they have some way of finishing. Same thing with Shudderwock and like all the non-wild druid decks (Psych melon lets them just go full combo). These decks are control decks that have some form of way to finish and saying they aren't is like saying that Razakus priest wasn't because they ran velen. Both Odd paladin and zoo lose to a lot of control decks, just find some way to apply pressure to combo decks and all of a sudden, it won't be some 'unwinnable match up'.

 malygos will never waste face damage into clear unless they are really losing the match. In the exact moment they waste even 1 spell more than they need they probably concede cause there is not point into try to win with board against any deck. So combo decks are not really control decks, you only control the board with specific cards and try to never waste others, control the board is not really a goal with this deck or any similar deck, just delay the enemy board until you can get your OTK or 2 turns kill. So not really "control" stuff. Control not means go to fatigue (unless you warrior) control is slowly overcome your oponnent until he cant win, so you win.

Also testing and having results its not the same than getting good tiers with X or Y deck. I can agree with you in something, in this moment people can play whatever class because you have 3 tier 1 aggro decks and like 4 or 5 tier 1 OTK decks spreading into 5 classes (warlock, paladin, rogue, druid and priest). And a lot of decks that can win on ladder good curving. But in the end of the month of all those decks probably only the best aggro and the most solid combos are going to see play when people stop playing unconsisteng counter decks. Anti-meta decks with future? warlock and warrior with the anti combo package probably.

Hmm i dont think the number of classes that see play is relevant to said "the meta is balance" cause that only means that there is a lot of busted cards on the neutral slot or in this case, that old decks are not affected by the new meta. Mid range paladin, control paladin, control priest, whatever priest that is not otk, midrange hunter, face hunter, i can name more  super type of decks that are still not viable in this meta and they will not become viable neither later on the expansion. Aggresive decks for the last expansion are still strong, new combo decks and update combo decks are the strongest decks in the meta by far.

Zoo still the best deck to climb and Odd Paladin the second best, because are fast decks, you twice the matches than any combo deck with this 2 in the same amount of time. Odd paladin still crush anything except other tier 1 decks (druid combos and zoo). I dont see anythin particulary super good in the actual meta except maybe that aggro is still viable so we are not stuck in a combo slow meta that makes imposible to play control, for the moment.

Quote from UberNooberino >>

Aggro decks stll exist. For example Aggro druid is okay up to rank 10.

As for Spreading Plague you just punish yourself.

This topic is a waste of time. Thats just another expansion complain. If you dont like it , dont play it. You might even wait for next expansion.

Combo isnt everything  and you can break it, as long as you have tools. Netdecking might be nice if youre out of ideas, but you can edit those decks. Simple yet , some people dont know you can do it :)

But well thats it for me.

 Yeah i will just make a deck to break <every combo deck in the format> also i dont complain against this expansion, the expansion itself is fine. The old tools are the problem, spreading save combo druid decks for being punish, shudder is still a casual deck that not lose to a lot of things. I belive is pretty obvius that there is a problem as big as Prince on turn 2 in every Zoo deck autowinning just because you cant outvalue that...except if you play OTK deck that only needs to live until turn 10 and draw all the deck (sometimes you lose or wining but combo OTK is the ONLY deck that beats Zoo that prince turn 2...in the format, another "oh yeah they are so balance).

I actually understand your point but this is becoming really stupid. We are more close to a Wild meta as never before (and wild sucks needs to be addres XD). Yeah only 3 clases are worthy to be played to perfect score  (druid, priest and lock) but Druid will get forever maximun safe cards every expansion? --- give us a break --- When priest get broken cards for only 2 expansion and combo decks were super death to Priest hero power everyone complain every single minute and i, a priest player agree with "oh well maybe priest is too strong needs to be nerfed EVEN in wild" when innervate was nerfed i said (old account) "innervate is not a problem, the problem is every new card that druid is getting because they are given to Druid better tricks that are from other classes" and that is my argument, not just for Druid but Mage too. This thing of given armor, taunt generators, value generators to classes that should not get them will result in a stupid deck that everyone will call to be killed sooner than latter.

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

Mods lock this please. We have enough threads about hating on combo decks and/or druids and this really would fit better in the salt thread.

 Dont think are enought. I wish the game has a natural match recorded for show you how much is the difference XD also i am not even close to salt i just want to talk about how this meta is just the most mono centric in terms of types of decks.

Quote from xX_Clerk_Xx >>

you answered your own question. when all cards are weaker than the general power level of cards is the same. but when all cards are more powerful, than the general power level of cards is the same.

it is not a matter of "this card is to good" so much as a matter of "this card is to much better than existing cards".

so as cards get stronger, strong cards become good, good cards become weak, and weak cards become dust.

Them unnerf the cards, as all the aggro and midrange cards that were nerfed in the past. That would be very sane to the game right now. Why? cause has you said "fair cards are just weak you should never play fair card, dust them"

When i begin to try this game (in the fiiiirst expansion) I used to play Priest, i was priest main for long, long time. I follow players as Kolento and play almost only mirange Paladin and control Priest in every season no matter how weak those decks were cause if you played them well you can always win against Jade Druid, face hunter (when that was a thing) mech mage, patron warrior, you can name the deck, for how those decks works you can win against them. The actual slow decks (all are combos actually or get infinite resources without run true greedy cards) are not like those. For 2 years already the game has become into "try to win with normal value is useless craft a combo deck and get OTK or almost inmortal status" and i, personally find a problem in that.

Because classes like the well name Priest become useless or more like outclassed by other decks that do their job better. I mean you just need to see that even Warlock with the healing package is better protecting their board and their face than priest LoL. So what is the point of have a class that works in some way if others do their job better. An before someone said something like "well next meta they could become better than ever happens" Something is become trash tier like when face hunter was literally destroyed by dont get more face cards and something very different is give to Druid, for example, a warrior level value armor card (need to remember to the people that druid armor themed was more like "you can get armor to make trades with your hero" more than get armor to overhealth).

Guys, remember when Leeroy Jenkins was nerfed cause 4 mana 6 damage to face with a drawback was too strong for the game but now we can cheap 12 armor, a 3/9 taunt that its actually a 6/18 taunt on turn 5 or turn 7 dealt 2 damage and stun the board but also get 6 armor?

Like really, more than salty, a fact this actual meta kill midrange decks, normal combo decks (except warrior cause have infinite overhealth AKA armor) and aggro decks. If you dont play some kind of combo stuff with super defensive cards that punish your opponent for win the early game (Spreading Plague) your deck will lose a lot.

when druid and mage becomes a better versions of warrior and priest? lol