Hearthpwn

There is any real reaso why the Devs keep holding Priest as the weakest control class in standard? Honestly i forget the last time we get an actual AoE speed that can dealt 3 damage before turn 5. Also in terms of value the class is holding the worse recovery package ever filled with tons of spells that recover a bunch of health but provide nothing else while other classes clearly can match Priest healing amount + AoE, Summon minons, etc...

Increase the amount of health via effects or armor? Nope, Strong inevitability in the form of permanent spells? Not really, the only 2 Value generators in the class are One very expensive infinite discovery effect and One cards that forces you into play spells every turn. It seems clear to me why no one is trying to promote slow priest deck anymore.

My list is beyond an optimal deck i belive, sure is solid but it make use of 0 new cards, this is my list: https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1436719-mono-blood

Oh yes i have like close to 100% winrate with my Pure Blood DK against Excavate DK i find that the deck is just a natural counter. I am never force to play a bunch of minions so Rekka never has peak value. I can win with 3 damage each turn. My HP can go up to 45 im almost every match AND i run 1 copy of cleaner in my deck so forget about huge Plage value in late game. Just the size of the deck kinda counters the play pattern of Excavate Plague. You are not drawing a lot of plagues in the mid game with 10 extra cards in your starting deck.

I feel like hunter is less problematic to handle than Rainbow Mage or Mech Rogue honestly. Its a hard match because mulligan against 3 different decks that play similar cards is hard (all 3 hunters decks i mean) but in the end Hunter being top 1 is not rare when they have 3 tier 1 decks and you need to make a Mulligan before knowing what deck are you actually facing. Rainbow Mage in my opinion is waaay stronger closing the ame and Mech Rogue is just the Snowball boogalu if you dont hold answers to the BIG stealth cloning dude they will throw at you...on turn 4.

I honestly love when people like him uses the counterpoint of "haha just draw the perfect non-target answer gg ez" to defend cards that are obviusly over the top in the early game and is a matter of "do you get the right mulligan? would you draw the card in time?" to decide if you win or lose the game.

Quote from Malfurious >>

Quote from Fliarius >>

the "nerf" to discover would be a hard buff for DK, as their spells are too efficient. currently, the BDK has like 65 health per game on average. with your change to follow deck building rules, it would be over 100 health, as the discover pool would shrink immensely, in turn making the discover way too consistent.

 I would like to know who thought 2-mana, gain 10 health, and draw a card was a good idea. Even if it was restore 10 health instead of gain 10 health permanently, it would still be better than many other healing spells… especially with the card draw. And this is just one of the many broken cards in DK. 

 Well its also "you lose 3 resources" that can be 3 damage to all the minions or a buff to your cards or the cost of a discovery effect. Its actually Health 5 and sometimes health 10 + draw a card. Those corpses really matter. Yes its still a really strong card but it has down-sides too.

Quote from ZoReee >>

Quote from emkarab >>

Well, no, you play Paladin, Shadow Priest, Frost DK, Miracle Rogue. It's definitely not a control meta, just look at lineups of last tournament.

 tournaments mean nothing to ladder

 Ladder its also Frost. Blood is there but is not even close in winrate.

Quote from ZoReee >>

 

Quote from HeilKise >>

Death Knight is the class that let me play control without feeling bad after years of the game punish for being a Priest control main.

I am fine with nerf to Frost and some blood cards i dont really care as long as they dont over kill the little pool of cards we have tho.

 Its a control deck in a meta where it and its aggro variant have no true counter. you can't just play "x deck if you're running into too much dk" because 50%+ (if not actually 70+%) of the matches you will play will be against frost or blood dk so you can only slightly counter one of them at a time, but even then they still probably beat you 51%+ since none of them have an astronomically low win rate against anything.

your only options are play homebrew and lose 51%+ of your matches

play blood dk or frost dk and just mirror match most the night where you probably will win against most homebrews and have 40-60% against any other DKs

play pure pally and prey countess rolls beat either of those two decks(or you manage to outrace them) and actually have a little fun against homebrews

or play something else meta and try to creep up your rank with a 50.1% winrate vs these decks with a 60+% win rate

 Or play Demon Hunter/ Druid that also beat DK. But i agree. Yeah its a meta were you play control or you play Palodon. But we have a meta just in this past were you play control and you lose 100% of the times to every_single_deck. Do you imagine how i feel in those months? Lose to Demon Hunter OTKS went i already success un surviving 1 turn but my oponent wins anyways because infinite face damage. Lose to mage because infinite burn and card generation. Lose to aggro because AoEs being too slow. lose to Druid because every f*king late game deck lose to druid. Lose even to Pirate warrior because teching for the other matches makes my deck worse against go wide go face non-stop.

We, control players, are also unhappy with the game meta design. The difference is that i am not really against nerfing my class. Tuned it down if you want. But next time someone complain about the aggro/combo meta, remember you also deserve nerf.

Edit: just to point it the best DK deck is not even blood, is Frost the Burn dumb deck that is just what Spell mage was in their strong days.

Quote from SavageMind >>

The blood spec is dumb and boring. Plz kill it

 Druid is dumb and boring, Plz Kill it.

Death Knight is the class that let me play control without feeling bad after years of the game punish for being a Priest control main.

I am fine with nerf to Frost and some blood cards i dont really care as long as they dont over kill the little pool of cards we have tho.

Quote from SoundwaveVR >>

Quote from sPacEtiMe19 >>

 No it doesn’t, just like twisting nether doesn’t. 

A 5/5 in exchange for being locked behind triple blood is fine. 

That, and no one complained about it until now, because the deck is viable now. 

Are you insane?! Twisting Nether is 8 mana kill the board. Soul Stealer is 8 mana, kill the board, SUMMON A 5/5 AND gain a sh*tload of corpses. In what sane world are those two cards the same?! And no, the triple rune "penalty" is not enough. The least they could do is remove the corpses gain. 

 And you cant Play half of your class collection if you put soul stealer in your deck. So nope, is not insane.

Quote from Truenorth >>

People keep saying it's the discover.... you are DISCOVERING THE CARDS I LISTED. The problem isnt discovering cards. It's discovering cards that are too strong for zero drawback.

The discover isnt broken. The cards you can spam from it are.

The OP was a little salty I admit; so it wasnt the best brainstorm of balances. Though on the spot there were some good suggestions. Discovering cards that are balanced isnt broken.

 I mean Druid can copy cards in their deck that are part of their combos at will. Most of the times they get what they want to copy because they have access to a LOT of great cards. Again why exactly is DK the problem? You already admit that your first post was a lot of saltiness against Blood DK but is not Blood DK the only real control deck right now? Not exactly a great deck against other control decks that run actual win-conditions but the main reason why is that is because control and playing slow sucks a lot in this game because of that one class that i already named in all my post.

Talking about discover: Right now DK discover is great but that with change with the time. More spells and more minions means more bad spells and more bad minions to discover. Every class with low number of cards to discover has a little buff on the mechanic. Yes. But that is something that cant be change or nerfed without literally making that class worse for not reason at all. Is not like Frost DK is winning because random-discover but because they can clone Frost spells in their hand too

Quote from ZagniefMaster >>

Quote from Anarchy1 >>

Quote from ZagniefMaster >>

Quote from Anarchy1 >>

If anyone here has premium hs replay, there is the data we need

 Why would we use this shit? Use d0nkey

https://www.d0nkey.top/decks?rank=legend

And yes, FFF dk remained unnerfed, UUU's stronk too but not that nasty, BBB suffers from a lot of bad players playing this deck but even though it has 58% winrate on 6k games

A-a-a-and there are no other classes amongst dk, pally and dh.

 

 Nice. Is it possible to filter for top legend? And can we see card winrates? 
Don’t know much about that tool. I use vs reports for stats but they are on their post release break

 Sadly not, but possibility of watching legend ranking itself is good already. Card winrate doesn't change that much on other rankings I suppose

 Well if any this discards BBB as the "problem" that the thread point. Obviusly Frost DK being the deck with most consistent burn (and being really cheap) is the best option to aggro your way into legend, compare it with Druid that cost 13K dust more. But this is just as it was with Demon Hunter, after one or two expansions more the consistency of the Class will drop and the power level of the class overall will go down in this "heavy consistency" aggresive decks.

I belive this one is a really salty approach but i understand. Demon Hunter still why more powerfull than DK at their second expansion tho. I dont belive that Death Knight is broken. Control DK (3 Blood) is a deck that fails a lot against other control decks. Its a great deck but i feel like it is more spammed because its budget to build rather than effective on the long run. About the "salty" part of the gameplay, well i was and i am still against nerfing Late game classes that dont have access to OTK combos or infinite value. That includes DK and Priest and Warrior. Druid is still the class i will pick to nerf over and over againt because of how easy is to play and how stupidly broken the late game is.

But lets talk about the nerf: Construc Quater is a 4 mana do nothing unless you have a minion which is already bad. Destroying your OWN minions as the cost is also a huge dealt because yes DK has a plenty of targets they want to destroy but when you just dont have any, its just a "give it rush to this minion, set its attack on 4"

Vampiric Blood: oh boy its Vampiric blood really makes you angry why you dont have a Thread about how annoying is to face Druid winning 5+ HP each time they press their hero power...forever without additional cost? Vampiric blood has already a HEAVY cost, losing 3 corpses is a HUGE dealt, 5 corpses will kill the card. If you dont know how much 3 corpses are in terms of a cost to pay you probably dont play Death Knight control.

Gnome Muncher: so always go face and i never trade him when the oponent has only a big minion on board? thanks for the buff, It also insta kill the enemy hero if i buff the Gnome and set the oponent on 10 HEALTH. You see? you are just salty at this point.

Soul Stealer, NERF/DELETE. 8mana, 3/3, LOSE a corpse for each minion destroyed < Why? you pay 8 to destroy all the minions and get a 5/5, thats literally not great.

Frostwyrm 7 mana 4 - 4 > What about nope? I dont like this card neither, i hate when the oponent just cycle one after another yes, its really bad but if you want to ACTUALLY nerf the card in a good way reduce the amount of frozen minions is the way to go. Its actually a change a will support: front all the minions to "3" or even "2" will really impact how the Frost DK is played.

Discover Rune Cards, NERF to only usable Rune cards < We dont have enough spells to make this happen but eventually it will be change i am 100% sure. right now is actually GREAT that you can discover other runes because it takes away the consistency. Imagine Frost only getting Frostwyrm and other face damage every discover or Blood just getting infinite removal and healing or unholy just getting the plage and token generators as discover options. You dont know it right now but you WILL hate it.

We are getting closer and closer to finally rotate one of the most problematic cards in Standard game design and honestly i just want to see the whole "big big big big mana turn" theme druid go away but before all this happens i want to share with you why i dont like this take of the class and why i belive this is by far the worse take on Druid so far.

Druid is always a very strong and meta relevant class in the game and honestly is not hard to see why: Either get access to insane combo tools to get huge value on board very late or very early and it has become a common theme for the class the "huge survavility" too. I dont have nothing against that. I dont belive no one has a problem (a real not personal) with Druid being the "is just good" class of the game. But this last expansions were really all about transform this issue in a REALLY the most annoying game experience i ever feel in this game and that is coming from someone that has played this game for a LONG long time.

- Almost impossible to outvalue in late game

- Access to any card combination in 1 turn (because of 20 mana)

- Access to 100+ Armor

- Access to heavy amount of Card draw and the ability to duplicate any card in their deck, including winconditions

- Access to multiple winconditions and can basically abuse of any neutral card they get access

Honestly i need to keep going? I dont need to explain this Get matched against Druid is not fun, is not just bad, is not like getting match with a Tier 1 deck that you know you cant beat. Its literally getting matched against a deck that has a chance to win any match because they break every single rule that can be break in standard at the same time. And once again its not about how Tier winning is the deck is all about how stupidly strong is against every single archtype and people just abusing that fact forever and ever in this rotation format.