Hearthpwn

Quote from Zerberster >>

Don't think Twin Slice needs a nerf. Altruis definitely does. Maybe also Priestess.

 Twin Slice definitely needs a nerf up to 1 mana cost.

Quote from Cyr >>

Quote from Shissan >>

 "We're planning on making some balance changes that should go out today. Cards we're looking at are Skull of Gul'dan, Imprisoned Antaen, Eye Beam, and Aldrachi Warblades. We'll send out the final info from our official channels when it's ready." Iksar dixit

Now people will QQ less maybe?

 

 Warblades maybe, but I feel like that's one of the only tools a control DH archetype has to deal with aggro and survive, alongside Eye Beam.

And what would you even do to change Eye Beam? You can't remove the lifesteal, that's the card's flavor. 2 damage doesn't kill anything and increasing the cost to 4 wouldn't change anything, since it's almost always played from Outcast. 

I don't want them to do with Demon Hunter what they did to Hunter, where the only archetype viable is the SMOrc face, no second thought. With the bullshit excuse that it's "to keep control decks in check". Cards like Corrosive Breath and Toxic Reinforcement are complete cancer and ruin a class that should have way more potential of different playstyles.

 Change outcast cost reduction to 1-2. It's still a super powerful removal as a 1/2 cost card.

Quote from Evolactical >>

I think we could give the developers a break. Sure, DH came onto the stage with quite the bang. Yeah, it's OP, but it's a real tough thing, designing an entire class. No one should expect something like that to be perfect right away.

The class is too good at too many things Imo, but I really love the class flavour actually. Let's see what the future brings!

 You're correct. During beta, every class went through multiple passes in quick succession until everyone was in a good spot.

Quote from ManThighs >>

Pretty good suggestions but you can't make battlefiend cost 2 mana without buffing anything. Your 2 mana battlefiend is unplayable. I think if they changed the text to read "After your hero attacks gain +1 attack this turn." that would be fine. 

 A 2 mana 2/3 or 1/4 would work fine. It makes it stickier so that it can last a couple of turns. Right now it's just an objectively better Blazing Battlemage, who was already a really strong 1 drop for aggro decks.

What they need to do is rework the effects on their outcast cards. Demon Hunters do not need 3 cycle cards, and 3 draw cards. They need to diversify their outcast effects to something other than "draw a card".

Most decklists right now have a whopping 10 cards as draw cards. For a grand total of 8 mana, you can draw through 6 cards in your deck. Effectively reducing your remaining deck size to 18. For 12 mana, your remaining deck size is 14. This isn't even including Skull of Gul'dan, who makes the other cycle cards literally free.

Demon Hunters can literally cycle down to 11 - 12 remaining cards in their deck by turn 5. No class has had that much draw potential since Face Hunter in beta.

Quote from Artimex723 >>

 Well, that may obviously be the case, I'm not an expert, I just wanted to write my own observations, but I may be wrong. However I am not wrong in saying that DH is not so op at he seems, because in a week or so people will get bored and eventually start experimenting with other classes. That's when a lot of anti-DH decks will arise.

Ah PS. To all of you guys I was just wrong, I am not a troll or ****** ;)

 Yes. You are wrong.

And yes, Demon Hunter ARE as OP as they seem. There have been deniers for every single high burst deck since beta. And they were all nerfed anyway.

One of the very first overpowered decks in the game was a Face Hunter deck that used an oversaturated deck of small minions and draw cards to cycle through their entire deck, and deal 20 face damage by turn 8. Which is the EXACT same spot that Demon Hunter is in right now.

And that first Face Hunter deck went through about 5 or 6 different iterations within a couple of months before they were finally in a good spot.

Quote from user-100394506 >>

I agree with you. It is too early to say since everybody is playing it. 

As wild gamer (and it is not so played in wild) I can say that he is not as broken as Mage, priest and warlock. We will see. 

 Why does every retard think that statistics work this way?

If a demon hunter beats a demon hunter. The winrate is 50%. So it doesnt affect the winrate at all.

The winrate is from Demon Hunters against other classes. And insanely high playrates should push the winrate closer to 50%, not further away. That is unless the class is overpowered. In which case itll climb gradually.

Quote from SkillCommand1 >>

DH is brilliant, having so much fun playing this new pass today. 

Cry more. 

 You realize that a lot of us who are calling Demon Hunter broken have been using Demon Hunter, right?

But there are over 100 new cards in the set and 10 class legendaries for the other classes that we want to start using, but with Demon Hunters able to cycle their whole deck and do 27 unblockable face damage by turn 7. The game got boring as fuck in about ~12 hours.

Now only braindead retards are finding the Face DH mirror matches fun.

Quote from SinAscendant >>.

Snipped the wall of garble.

 Holy shit you're so fucking wrong about everything its hilarious. Just stop commenting and save some face.

 All burst combos still get nerfed. The only ones that don't are limited by the amount of card draw in the class. And again, Demon Hunters have SIX different draw cards. You can draw your deck down to 18 cards by literally just using the cycles. Demon Hunters can cycle their entire deck by turn 8-9.

And Demon Hunter healing is fucking insane. Its second to Priest right now. They start healing by turn 3 (realistically the earliest you need it), and they lifesteal anywhere from 2-10 damage per turn using Aldrachi blades. Yes, Paladins can theoretically heal more, but their healing starts so late in the game, and they lose tempo.

Demon Hunters only investment on their healing is the 3 mana for Aldrachi Blades. The rest is fueled by Twin Slice, Chaos Strike, free Eye Beams, and maybe 1 mana per turn from their hero power.

And no the winrates have not dropped. Literally every top meta deck right now is a Demon Hunter deck. Thats not an exaggeration. Every. Single. One.

So stop trying to preach your hardstuck silver nonsense. When literally all fucking evidence in the world proves you wrong. Just because you're playing a shit Demon Hunter deck like absolute garbage, doesnt change the FACT that they're drastically overperforming.

Fortunately. They'll be nerfed in the next two weeks regardless of whether your ignorant ass agrees or not.

Quote from VirtualChili >>

I have a 100% win rate vs DH with rez priest right now. No game was even close except 1 combo deck almost got me. Literally the easiest hard counter i've played in years.

 Okay but your experience at gold 5 isnt really reflective of what's good. I only just started climbing past silver today, and my pure paladin was 100% winrate vs Demon Hunter up until around Plat 5. But that means literally nothing.

After around mid plat, there were far less bad midrange and control attempts at Demon Hunters, and they all start using far better tuned Face decks.

I switched to Face Demon Hunter to climb after that, and currently sitting around around Diamond 7. Rez Priests don't have the tempo to deal with Demon Hunter silence and Maiev.

Battlefiend is the highest statted 1 drop in the game after a single AA. Maiev, Kayn and Consume Magic all bypass large taunts. Skull of Guldan, Antaean, Metamorph and Glaivebound Adept are the highest cost cards you need. Your win condition is cycling till your hand is cheap, and then using either Altruis or Kayn to burst with all of your cheapest spells reduced by Guldan on the turn the Antaean wakes up.

At worst, Antaean kills a big turn 7 drop and you have board control. At best, Antaean deals 10 face damage, and you use Altruis with your abundance of 0-2 mana cycle spells to deal the remaining 15 or so damage that you'd need.

Quote from SinAscendant >>

 I'm currently 4-1 against DH, so clearly there is a way. 

If they already have Aldrachi on the board, the 8 atk spell in their hand, double Slices, Metamorphosis already in play, and trigger their HP, that is exactly 20. Previously aggro decks have done triple Leroy for 18, Force of Nature + Savage Roar is 15, Bloodlust is up to 21. Burst damage is not that unusual.

And the best thing is, he can't spread it out, or play anything else the turn he does it, which means literally all you need to do is drop a Khartut or freeze his face and you win because he's out of cards. One of my wins I literally decked out the DH. 

And they don't have any more heals than Priest or Warrior do, unless they want to waste that 20 damage healing themselves. Normally they'd get about 20-25 heals, back when Spectral Cutlass Rogue existed I was getting upwards of 50 points a game. Run an Ooze. Or Harrison.

Playing 3 or 4 games that you lost because you dont know their cards yet doesn't make them OP. There's a learning curve. They're definitely strong, but it's way too early to say whether they are OP or not.

 The issue isn't that they have more heals than Priest, or bigger combos than aggro decks in previous metas. It's that they currently have the most powerful card draw in the game, they bypass taunts, they have great healing in their aggro decks, they have fantastic board removal, and they have insanely strong midrange cards.

With literally EVERY OTHER CLASS, they trade off their healing and card draw for damage, or they trade off their burst for sustain. Demon Hunters have ALL OF IT. They're currently the only class in the game who can draw out their entire deck by turn 8, while also controlling the board.

And FYI, all of those 20+ damage combos were nerfed. Force of Nature was reworked, Leeroy was put into hall of fame, Shamans haven't had ANYTHING to pair with Bloodlust for a long time. No idea why you're bringing them up as if they're Blizzard's greatest achievements in balance.

The class will 100% be nerfed in the next two weeks. Every other class went through a LOT of balance iterations in the beta, and Demon Hunter should go through the same iterations. For example, who at Blizzard decided to print the set with SIX different card draws? 3 of them are 1/2 cost cycle cards (effectively making Demon Hunter decks 24 cards in size), while THREE of them are 2+ multidraw cards.

Quote from Wonderbuster >>

I don't fucking know, maybe it has something to do with the fact that EVERYONE IS PLAYING DEMON HUNTER?!?!

 High popularity should skew the winrate closer to 50%, not further away.

The class is super close to Hunter in beta. a shit ton of cheap minions to flood the board, with a ton of card draw to never lose tempo.

Quote from Aldomar >>

For me I’d say Shudderwock or Ziliax.

 Why Zilliax?

Yes, he's common in decks. But is also the sole reason that control and midrange have had any place in the meta.

Ashes of Outland is going to be 3 months of Face (Demon) Hunter. There're no reliable recoveries for most classes now.

On topic, Mass Hysteria. Even if Priests are getting a far stronger legendary.

Quote from ShadowAldrius >>

Quote from Macinstosh >>

Compare Hearthstone to Magic: I can buy 90 Hearthstone packs for $100, while in Magic, I have to pay $115 for a booster box (30-some packs). Is Hearthstone expensive? 

 You are paying for collector's items and things with real world value.

I think Hearthstone is too expensive, I think the costing measures this set are taking are cool, but a digital card game does not have the same value as a physical one.

 You can also buy/sell magic cards outright. Nothing outside of Magic Arena warrants buying booster packs. It's the least affordable way to get cards, if anything. Unless you sell the rare cards you get from booster boxes.\

Quote from Ilyanthiel >>

Quote from BoiledFrog >>

 

That being said... Blizzard keep raising the prices of pre-orders every expansions and because of that, they lost me. 

 I think I see what you mean but this is incorrect. The last increase in price was in july 2017 (45 to 50 for the normal bundle)

 Not entirely incorrect. They stopped printing adventures for a full year and it was awful. Instead of being able to pay $20 for a few hours of single player content, in conjunction with about 8 valuable neutral legendaries to build decks around, you pay $90 to **maybe** be able to craft the meta deck you want to play.

The most affordable point of the game was when they alternated adventures/sets. Naxxramas for example, gave like, 8 meta legendaries for $20.

Even descent of dragons wasn't as good in value as previous adventures. They're also rotating Whizbang, who was the most value legendary in the game, but is now the single most useless card in the game.

Quote from hillandder >>

Quote from debug4 >>

Do ppl that wrote comments "this game is not expensive, you just need to win 30 games every day for only a year to play deck that contain more than 1 legendary" are joking or are they serious?

 1- There is competitive and cheap decks don't have any legendary, like face hunter, this is the place to go for who don't have money or time to spend.

2- The developers give in recent releases playable and free legendarys like Snip, Galakrond and Vargoth, have more than one legendary don't require too much time, just a little dedication like login for few minutes a day.

3- Have a lot of free content, packs free, Brawls, etc..., again, with a little daily dedication you can build a reasonable collection, your claim of hours and hours everyday for a year don't is real.

4- This is a comercial game, to make money, you have a door open for dedication instead of money, so, you can spend your money or your time to get the cards, what you can't is get everything for nothing, if this is "too expensive" then you need to reflected about your expectations.

When the only deck that's affordable, it leads to an oversaturation of the singular deck on ladder. Which is why Face Hunter is currently so oversaturated right now. It was a similar case with big druid.

Galakrond, like C'thun, were deceptive. The cards themselves were free, because of their reliance on support cards in the same set. The literal reason they gave Galakrond and C'thun for free was so that players would need to buy packs to use those free legendaries. It's the same reason as to why both Galakrond and C'thun had an extremely strong support legendary. It's an extremely common marketing tactic.

And again, packs being 'free' is just so the game can advertise as 'free to play', similar to League of Legends. But the content is gated behind extremely high paywalls. Again, another common marketing tactic. The games aren't really 'free to play', since paying money for the playable cards and characters gives a significant advantage over other players.

And finally, ALL games are commercial games. That point is redundant. Literally all games exist to make money. But the standard retail price for games is $60 for a AAA, or less for smaller titles. The retail price of Hearthstone sits at around $90 for your first set OR daily plays for 3-6 months.

Quote from gm6 >>

Dude, what’s wrong with you? Do you judge people by yourself or what? In my country 900$ is a good sum of money to get. The average income in my city is 461$ And I live in a major city, not mentioning villages and stuff like that. 
personally for me I don’t have to pay for the apartment , because I live in my own place, which I bought 12 years ago with help of bank (don’t know the term when you pay % every year for the big money bank gave you). I pay only for electricity, heating and hot water (which is 61$ on average). I also have a Wife (who works too) and a 1 year kid, but even he brings money to my family (we have a government support in my city).

i also have a car, but it is in a pretty good condition, so I don’t need to fix it or repair, only supplying gasoline (which is 90$ a month if you are interested).

Groceries Price a month is pretty near to what you mentioned (it is 184$ to be precise). 

so at the end of the day I have enough money to spend and to save (I can afford a 1 time a year vacation for 3 weeks in sunny Thailand and believe me, this is not a small sum of money). You can guess what country I am from :D

 So you wanted to go with the story of being financially irresponsible and that this game IS too expensive for you. Got it.

You really should be putting that money into savings. What you described is called a mortgage, and you still have to pay for it. The bank doesn't just *give* you the money for free.

Quote from gm6 >>

Quote from Hannya >>

I started playing Legends of Runeterra about 3 weeks ago. I spent a total of $20 on the game, and already own most of the collection.

$14 went to buying my first deck outright using wildcards (Mogwai's Heimerdinger control deck) with no RNG or luck in the purchase. The other $6 went to buying two expedition runs (aka Arena).

Obtained most of the cards through maxing out the weekly chests, the progression milestones, and through repeated value on the expeditions, which is significantly easier, since the runs cap out at 7 wins, allow up to 5 losses, and give you a free second chance if you fail the first time.

The cost I paid was equivalent to an indie game, the progression took about as long as a AAA game, and I got to play a Masters tier deck from the get-go.

---

Contrast this to the $90 I spent on the expansion bundle, which only unlocked about 1/5th of the legendaries, and that's with insane highroll on my unpacks. Then on top of that, I still can't craft the deck I want without disenchanting other legendaries.

To add, it'd also take until next xpac to get maybe 1/2th of the remaining collection.

 dude, do you have a job? i mean a place where you can earn money for comfortable living? or maybe you are from 3rd - 4th world country? as for me, i am from Europe and i have a job. And mega pre-purchase bundle is about 10% or less of my average monthly income. Why is it too expensive? It is absolutely fine to spend money on things you like to do. My wife spends minimum 100$ every month on stuff like shopping, make-up and other women stuff, which is fine. And here you are offered to spend ~150$ every 3-4 months to have a solid card collection to be able to play any deck you want. Stop complaining and raise more money, or simply f2p this shit. 

 Really fucking weird flex that $90 is 10% of your monthly income. That's $900 a month. You're working a part time minimum wage job.

Let's say you pay  $400 a month in rent (which is cheap!). Then your car insurance is $80, your utilities at maybe $80, and groceries at maybe $200 a month, which is also cheap since you mention a wife.. Though that's likely a lie, since you describe her expenditures as "make-up and other women stuff.

That's $850 a month,  assuming NO ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURES, which would be insane. With only $50 in savings, which is hugely financially irresponsible.

Either you're a financial disaster, in which case Hearthstone is 100% guaranteed TOO EXPENSIVE FOR YOU by indisputable definition. Or you live with your parents and have that disposable income, which would mean Hearthstone is affordable, but means you're in no place to offer financial advice.

I'll let you pick one and adjust your poll answer.