Hearthpwn

Added an edited note for the warlock quest above as another way of doing the quest for warlock however the second note would probably end up requiring a general nerf to dark glare again later. Or an outright ban of dark glare as a card. The potential to generate some very large demons could lead to some very high roll situations.

Other ideas for the warlock quest would be reducing damage to complete the quest to 6 / 6 / 6 and them making it spawn demon minions every time you take damage from the quest. Instead of damageing your opponent which would also fit in theme with the demon seed and make it more interactable. But would give you some low rolls. It would also basically nullify the existing achievement from the quest which im not sure you would see blizzard push that change. But it would be another interesting way of doing the warlock quest that may be more balanced for both standard and wild.

Those are 2 ideas for the warlock quest.

@caobringer

Its not really nerfing them its balancing them. So that more decks are viable as oppose to out right nerfing them. My ideas the idea is to make the quests still playable but not insanely busted. The hunter quest i think would be more playable in standard. I would be more tempted to play it in standard. I would probably still play mage in standard with the quest and I probably wouldn't not play it in wild.

the warlock quest is more 50/50 but the quest itself is broken its far too powerful in wild. After Gold rank in wild 70% or more of your games in wild are basically vs warlock even with dark glare aggro wild doesnt have that high of a deck % for any single deck.

The way to look at is do you want to play the same match up every single game. Nerfing the warlock quest while its balanced in standard the deck is completely broken and then some in wild. In standard it makes some decks unplayable. Basically you chance to win against quest warlock playing a control warrior / priest as examples is so low talking sub 15% that you would more often than not just concede the match before it starts. You wont reach turn 7 to have any chance of disrupting the deck and you dont have enough damage out to deal with it before the quest comes online. Slowing it down but keeping it there gives the warrior and priest a chance to develop threats and have answers to make the quest warlock have deal with those threats. It also makes other warlock decks more playable.

I say hunter is undertuned in standard and overtuned in wild because in wild its just broken. In standard its to slow and the lack of draw / good spells to use with it makes it unplayable which is why i suggested increasing the hero power damage but not making it repeat triggerable. Because a passive 4 hero power damage for 0 mana to any target is eq to hero power mage with buffs not to mention there are ways to stack the effect. Hunter also lacks the draw in standard to make the effect as good as it is in wild currently and the ability to utilize chain triggers of the spell. Additionally by changing the final reward you can diversify hunter much more in standard and still make it good with the quest.

Being able to run a mix of spells and minions I think would make the deck alot better in standard. Especially with alot more buff hero power there are ways to make it even better with minions like youthful brewmaster where you could get a 6 / 8 damage + hero power which is not bad at all for 0 mana or any multiple battle cry get a copy effects. Even with the hero power being changed you could still do OTK's with the deck in wild just far less consistantly.

Quests specifically:

Standard -

Severly Overtuned: Mage

Mildly Overtuned: Warlock

Balanced: Demon Hunter, Shaman, Rogue, Warrior, Druid.

UnderTuned: Hunter, Priest, Paladin

Wild - 

Severly Overtuned - Warlock, Hunter, Mage

Mildly Overtuned - Druid

Balanced - Demon Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Shaman

Undertuned - Paladin, Priest

That would be my accessment accross both formats the rogue quest I could put as undertuned for wild however I feel that could change over time / if the other quests are rebalanced there is a chance it could see play at least at levels lower than diamond rank and in dumpster ranks. Plus it would improve as more SI cards are added to the mix over time.

Also in case you did not read this was specifically about the united in stormwind quests. Not other cards that need nerfs or buffs or vice versa.

because if your talking standard I play OTK demon hunter for the most part and it needs nerfs probably more than paladin does. I don't play paladin in standard because I don't think in the hands of skilled players its as good on average as the other optional decks. If I was going to play in GM's I agree with a lot of people saying right now.

Druid, OTK demon hunter would probably be on the list for sure. I would probably play warlock, mage, or rogue after that because shaman is to easy to tech against, I think paladin itself is actually just an average deck its numbers are padded by fact a bad player can do well with it. I just dislike face hunter in general the deck is a good deck, priest is too inconsistant in shadow and too slow for the meta as is in control, and I have never liked rush warrior again the deck isnt bad but its not amazing either in my opinion its average if control warrior was viable id consider playing it but current its not good except vs aggro so you have a 50/50 of getting blown out with control warrior and having a 0% win chance depending who your paired against. OTK demon hunter, Quest mage, Quest Warlock and if you ran into one a control priest are all bad matches for control warrior for the slight advantage you get in the aggressive match ups its not worth laddering.

Note the last tournament with a held with a 3 deck list did have a control warrior control priest OTK demon hunter line up win with a group of players at legend ranks playing the decks. But being a smaller tournament with a more heavy aggro line up list its not going to give the best results on how viable those decks are. Its also not masters players for the entire event. Id expect youll see majority of masters line ups running OTK demon hunter, Quest Druid and/or Quest Mage in there line ups because all 3 decks dont really have super polar matches. Rogue also has no super polar match ups when piloted well.

Hs replay on paladin is just because the deck is easy to pilot by anyone and its not pointless to bring up wild as a large part of the community still plays the format just like its not pointless to bring up things in MTG when they relate to older formats despite the majority of the population does not play them because they are not played competatively in most tournament formats saying wild is being a format isnt valid is kind of stupid and insulting to anyone whos been playing since the game was released in 2014 and invested in there collection to the point of being able to play wild to legend ranks. I play both formats successfully to legend ranks every other season its. You can balance the formats effectively without disrupting either.

I piloted a version of quest warlock currently this season with a better than 1-6 win rate with 0 issues and with some pretty sub-optimal versions of the deck. Its not a bad deck its not great into an aggro match up your unfavored with optimal versions of both decks a 40-45% win rate is more accurate id say piloting it against aggro hunter my win rate is closer to the 40% marker and vs aggro shaman its pretty even. vs mage its about 30% and most other match ups its favorable. In its current state but its also been what ive played for about 40% of my standard games. It also says rogue is horrible on hs replay in the current format but the highest win rate rogue deck is actually SI:7 rogue and ive been pretty close to the net average playing a very similar version to the best listed version give or take 2-3 cards and have a just above average win rate on it.

The ability to play the deck matters a large amount in if the deck is good or not. Honestly last season I probably wouldnt have nerfed anything except Lunacy, the windfury murloc and soul eater which was banned in wild anyways.

Slowing down the warlock quest by making it so you need to hero power gives control decks a way to interact with it in standard via mutanus. It disrupts the mage deck from being unmanageable as a control deck.

1) Its not discover a spell from your deck, its discover a spell that started in your deck. Obviously discluding the quest.
2) Its a no mana cost effect meaning your essentially drawing 2 cards every turn for the rest of the game vs an opponent drawing 1 and it doesnt thing your deck.
3) It is cards you started with in your deck which means if they were not good why did you bother putting them in there in the first place.
4) It lets you use your burn spells more aggressively to remove minions without having to worry about the fact your going to run out of fire power as 2 cards a turn is still very very strong. It just means you cant fireball face for 9+ damage twice in a turn. Generating a removal spells is not bad overall its giving you something mage lacked value generation. How is it to slow the only difference is you cant aggro to face for 20 damage in 1 turn.

The hunter quest is undertuned in standard because in standard hunters lack draw. Getting 4 damage off the hero power every turn is actually stronger in standard on average most standard games the deck is not going to have a pop off turn and shoot your face for 40-60 damage. Hunter doesnt need to be face hunter but its got the option to shoot face for alot more consistantly with a 4 damage hero power than it does with a 2 damage one that requires a spell to refresh. Most of the time in standard your getting 2 damage off that hero power maybe 4 and your hand is filled with alot of spells that are just bad. Making it 4 damage not require a spell actually makes it more viable the turn you get it in standard play your 5 drop minion remove an opposing minion and your hero power is better every turn even if you draw a minion instead of a spell its just better overall for standard and it tones down its effect in wild so you dont see ridiculous burst damage turns consistantly.

The warlock quest is kinda fine in its current state in standard I dont think its over powered or under powered in standard. In wild its completely broken and then some. Standard the nerf doesnt really hurt it that much nor does it buff it. Basically your talking take 6 heal 3 take 4 heal 3 take 4 get a powerful minion. The quest deals less net damage to you but its slower to get the full effect. Meaning cards like mutanus from decks like control warrior and control priest can potentially interact with it as you cant just pop off and go insane it also makes other warlock decks like tickatus warlock, and hand warlock more playable because they are not just going to get out right burned out before they have a chance to come online again opening up more options for control decks in general. I think most of your negative experience playing it in its current state in standard is your just not that great at playing the deck to be honest not meant to be an insult. I am just as bad at playing face hunter in standard and playing pirate warrior in wild. my win rate with those decks is below the average. but ive had 0 issues playing quest warlock in standard the balances i am suggesting are to try and balance both standard and wild while not disrupting any playable options for the decks in both but limiting un-interactable turns.

Any time you can do something un-interactable or disruptable consistantly there is an issue. Priest quest - can be disrupted hitting correct targets with mutanus as you trigger the quest you cant play the minion same turn as you triggered the quest. Mage quest creates un-interactable over the top damage nerfing it to generating cards you can at least gain armor and fight back against it instead of being burst down with 0 interaction. Flamewalker mage which can kill by turn 4 in wild still is interactable snipe / kills it when the card is played you can overwhelm the board which 4-5 health minions stopping the OTK, you can play secret mage and counter it. Plenty of ways to answer it. Hand buff paladin alot of the cards in the deck are slower and can be manage with removal spells actually I think ive lost maybe 2-3 games out of like 50 vs handbuff paladin in standard. The decks good but its not un-interactable its pretty easy to beat actually and bring more control decks back would help that even more so.

Actually hand buff paladin does not have the best win rate.
Spell mage has an average win rate of 71% and one of the shaman decks has a higher win rate.
The difference is that handbuff paladin is easy to play and you can play a bad version of the deck and still do well. Best version vs best version on average handbuff paladin is not that good. - In case you remember the last 3 seasons paladin was also the top ranked class overall but when played by the best players it never really did well after the first 1-2 weeks of gms because the deck is just that its good. Its not amazing. The more control exists in the meta the worst paladin is as a deck on average in standard.

I have the deck built ive played about 20 games with it in standard its not that over powered id say its above average and takes the least amount of skill to play well.

vs OTK Demon Hunter which has a very low win rate on HS replay but when you look at legend ranked players its got a very high win rate because the skill cap is much higher. It actually probably needs a nerf in standard as much as I do not like to say it.

You can see that control does have options in the meta but its severely pushed out on ladder because those archetypes cant deal with insane over the top damage from mage / warlock burst. Specifically those 3 quests disrupt wild to the point nothing else is viable short turn 4 kill decks. In standard it opens up different play styles that can disrupt aggressive game plan while not kicking aggro out of the meta. Which is the idea you dont want aggro to not be a viable option but you also dont want to make it oppressive.

Exactly as noted above face hunter is only popular because decks like control warrior cant play into a meta against decks like quest mage. +3 spell damage is basically way to much for a control warrior to deal with and with mage getting discover every turn you have to remember they often complete the quest very fast it means they can be discovering ice barrier in that match they can use there burn more actively as removal against aggro without fear of running out of removal. Like wise quest hunter one of the big issues with quest hunter in standard is you are using 6 spells with almost no draw to get a hero power refresh. Having a flat 4 damage hero power in many cases for quest hunter in standard would give it more viability for both aggressive hunter and control hunter because they dont need to be refreshing there hero power every turn with spells meaning the deck can shift away from running as many spells and run more minions at a base allowing it to get advantage with tempo instead. 

Warlock itself isnt as disruptive in the standard meta as it is in wild. The deck still has the ability to strait beat a control deck but same time it makes the deck more susceptable to aggro decks. Its biggest issue is what it does in wild which is kill you without interaction between turns 4-6 the game is just over coming from someone who played the deck to get to legend in wild the deck is to powerful. 70-80% of my matches in wild playing it were mirror matches because in wild the deck is to fast even for aggro decks to beat in most cases. In standard I played the quest to platnium 5 so far for about half my games and I dont think it would be that disruptive to nerf it in standard to stop what it does in wild which is just insane. Warlock is generally the best counter to control decks in standard as it stands.

Forcing hero powers wouldnt disrupt that but it would slow down its insanity in wild. Basically the idea is to give the decks the opportunity to play both aggressive and control varients without making them so overpowered they completely disrupt the wild meta. If you delay the warlock quest to turn 7/8 your giving control decks a chance to fight against it and if you bring control back aggro can be dealt with.

This was evident when control did win a mini standard tournament held by alliestraza over the weekend. When a control deck can play into an aggro meta it can beat aggro. Those same decks however cannot play into a meta heavily populated by OTK combos happening before they can get on board. It pushes out other decks from the meta by allowing them to exist the way they are. When a warrior druid and priest cant heal or armor through mage damage for 2-3 turns they stand no chance in that match making control versions just go away instead of existing. Removing over the top insane face damage lets those decks balance out the aggro decks and gives room for other archetypes to fight in the meta.

It just stops stupid early ridiculous otks in wild.

If your saying no why doesnt it work how do you see a fault in it?

Also doing the warlock nerf makes it still a viable different stratagy in standard while not promoting abuse of dark glare in wild meaning you keep the old dark glare aggro deck in tact in wild and remove this as part of its playstyle.

also side note it would be nice to see them add the +1 damage to shadow form back from the shadowform spells. To bring more emph to the arch type.

Hunter Quest - This is disruptive in wild but not so much in standard and personally i think the better way to resolve this quest would be to make the final reward +2 hero power damage being able to use it once a turn for 4 damage can be used as a control tool. Its still solid face damage. But no one is going to get insanely OTKed by it you also remove the need to play spells with it. Additionally you make the reward a replayable stackable benefit with cards like bran bronzebeard // youthful brewmaster and you can even use it with a card like rexxar to trigger over the stage 2 before the stage 2 hero power and get 0 mana rexxar hero power. 

Mage Quest - Change the reward to at the start of the turn discover a spell that was in your starting deck and add that card to your hand. This removed or reduce the spell damage to +1 personally i think the first option is far more balanced as this generates value for a mage deck and the option works for both control decks and aggressive decks.

Warlock quest - Reduce the health cost but make it require your hero power to activate this would make it slower. The end value reward still creates the same result. But it becomes weaker against Aggro as your forcing hero powers rather than insane plays like crystilizer allowing completion in wild by turn 3. You could even reduce the damage to 6 4 4 and it would still be playable but you would force players to wait till turn 8 to complete the quest making it gradual and slowing it down enough in wild to be manageable.

Personally I think all 3 of these specific changes would not only create new archtypes but work for multiple deck styles giving some more options to control and in case of the first 2 give them more ways they could have fun with the rewards themselves. Youthful brew master now your generating 2 spells every turn for the rest of the game from cards that started in your deck that has some major value or bran for same results it means the mage deck is going to have alot less issues throwing burn damage at minions while not having as much burst to face potential. However you could still go that route I personally feel this route as an idea however just makes more raw value.

edit: Another option for the warlock quest could be reducing the damage taken by the quest to complete he quest and instead making the trigger summon random demons whenever you take damage. Instead of dealing to to face which is another way you could kind of rebalance it while keeping it interactable. Gives more highroll/low roll potential. Was something I thought of later keeping in flavor with the Demon Seed being the name of the card getting demons from damage does allow it to present constant big boards of threats. But those threats can be interacted with you could still get some pretty insane turns off dark glare however at same time.

I thought about about posting this specifically as its a bit more stand out than a lot more stand out than most of the information shown. But this highly supports a large part of the documention regardless of it being older content and set person no longer being at blizzard be warned this is pretty disgusting to watch regarding alex afrasiabi.

The commentary response is extremely crude overall and really kinda pushes what a large number of people have been saying. Be warned this is pretty diffcult IMO to stomach listening to his response toe the person speaking to the team in the 2010 blizzcon video. Personally myself I think this at least validates a large part of the issues presented regarding him to any regards within the company as this is exactly the kinda response you would expect from someone with the mentality discribed in documents i posted earlier from the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi5dQzZp3f0&t=273s