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    posted a message on Basic in Game Tournament Mode Discussion

    This is something I feel has been lacking for in game. And its sad being able to have active tournaments for just conquest or last hero standing formats in both standard and wild options for a long time. It has been done and worked in other games in the past. 

    Hex which was created by the creators of the wowtcg card game when it existed were able to successfully add a tournament mode to the game this having a basic option for playing in this mode as oppose to a ladder mode would be so much more enjoyable. Even if your not climbing to the top of the ladder a basic 8 player tournament or 16 player format for this would be nice as a basic concept. Just to have it in game for practice they could do more with it but just having it available as a mode would breed so much more life into the game.

    It would be nice to see it expanded further to open tournaments for qualifying for masters tour in game via in game tournament sign up as oppose to doing it through a third party service and dealing with the extra hassle. While its time consuming ect to participate in tournaments having the option for players who want to set aside that time for games would be a nice option. Its not a format for every players as standard event your looking at 1 hour rounds to allow people time to finish there games on average so often its a play then sit and wait format, but its still something there are people out there in the community that do show interest in that.

    Its something for the people who want to focus on there actual skill set for competitive play. It keeps getting dodged as a optional game mode. Its a mode that really is sorely lacking currently. Conquest and Last Hero standing are the tournament formats used for GM's / Masters and Conquest and Last Hero standing are not the ladder formats so they lack the true skill options of hearthstone having those options in an ingame format would be so much better for overall play.

    If its something that appeals to you bumps / likes might be a way to hopefully bring attention to it. If you dont like the idea of a tournament format this thread is not really for you. Hopefully the community can bring more attention to options for this kind of format.

    Thanks to anyone who bothers to reply/like/comment ect.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    @Finalstan i think the warlock is very unbalanced in wild like drastically unbalanced. Personal thoughts like i noted earlier the only ones i feel are pushing unbalanced or over powered i feel are mage / hunter / warlock. And Hunter and warlock I dont think its a standard issues its more of a wild issue. Warlock isnt so much unbalanced for standard as oppressive in standard with some extreme polarizing match ups vs control. Mage personally i feel is unbalanced in both formats especially when you can curve completely under 3 mana outside refreshing spring water in wild and draw your entire deck without need for cards like mozaki or flamewalker as a win condition even you can basically just draw till you find what your looking for an our fight just kill them with insane consistancy. In standard ive been playing today even with a 70% plus win rate on mage just to see how polarizing it is the only game ive lost thus far was a mirror match. Because of a play mistake on my part and finished in the quest second. But thats also only out of like 10-15 games which is not an accurate accessment by any means but it proves how polarizing the match feels.

    Mage does have a bad match up vs OTK Demon Hunter and Druid however as a side bar note. In standard. Due to lack of ability to use face damage frost spells in standard.

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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    @xanzan1 the comment on adjusting the quest reward cost for some of the quests is actually a really good balance i think for the mage quest possibly the warlock quest. Not so sure it would work as well with hunter. If they were adjusted to 7-8 on mage or warlock quests at least there would be interaction options for the rewards it might make the hunter on the other hand unplayable in both formats.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    How is it bumping to respond to messages on a thread that I created I am responding to the messages explaining a point of view. On how I think it would be a more constructive way to balance and existing quest. The quests still play to the same original design but the idea was to rework them in a way that is balanced as oppose to just hitting them with a complete unplayable nerf stick.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    My personal opinion is changing the quests enough to keep the flavor of the quests close to the original but rebalancing them for changes is the best option to make them better in some ways while keeping differentiating them enough to still see play.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    I dont really think its changing the cards honestly your still getting very similar affects just tweaked in a way to balance them. +3 spell damage is the problem with the mage quest. You can nerf it to the point of being unplayable they could nerf it to +1 spell damage making it alot worst or +2 where it still feels too over powered. Or you could give it a way to be in my opinion still strong but not overbearing. Personally myself I would play it at generate a spell from my deck over +1 spell damage. At +2 spell damage id still be saying its to broken because you cant interact with it.

    Warlock quest there isnt really any way to nerf it to be slower in standard outside what i suggested with making it hero power dependent increasing the damage per turn to get the rewards would nerf it out of play. I dont think myself deleting the quests is a good idea as oppose to giving people a way to interact with the quests. My original thought was make  card that just destroys quests much like flare destroyed secrets in previously.

    The hunter quest is different from previous 2 in that its bad in standard. Busted in wild. So you could just say ban them in wild but that doesnt resolve anything for control in standard. You could say who cares about control players the fact so many people didnt like the one comment from iksar on the concept they were saying lets delete control as an archtype speaks for itself you delete control from the meta a fairly large chunk of hearthstone players would leave the game and blizzard would still be answering refund requests 2 years from now.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    The way to look at is you can nerf incanters flow it nerfs multiple decks. I would still play it at 3 mana I dont think it would be as impactful as nerfing the quest and you would affect multiple decks instead of just 1 of which some of those decks would be alot more impacted than the quest version of the deck. The quest while incanters flow increases its win rate by like 5% the quest would still oppress control decks.

    You could nerf dark glare which i can see people saying this would be amazing it would slow the deck down the deck would still see play it would still oppress control decks and it doesnt stop an uninteractable combo. The point is while those cards are good and really impactful cards they dont remove the larger scale problem with those 2 particular decks oppressing control. It doesnt stop them from hitting quest before control decks in either format can interact with them.

    Lets look at nerfing the other cards people suggested for both decks lets nerf incanters flow. Quest mage in wild and standard both do not care that much it slows them down a little bit win % drops probably by about 5% they both still push control out of the meta so no change on control decks being playable as you can still complete both quests by turn 5-6.  Meaning in both formats aggro gets a little bit better. In wild that deletes mozaki mage and flamewalker mage from being playable personally I dont think flamewalker or mozaki was that oppressive they were both still manageable in wild before that. In stanard the curve is low enough incanters while nice doesnt break the meta. The quest is still going to get the minion out before mutanus can interact with it and there is no other way for control decks outside illuciana to interact with it. Which means you need 8 mana again to slow to stop the quest trigger. As a result your still getting over the top damage that you cant out armor and you cant out heal with control decks. Wild you slow it down 1 turn. No real impact.

    What about warlock and dark glare. Dark glare itself as a deck was tier 1 in wild last expansion. Was manageable control decks still managed to deal with it decks still saw turn 10 and later. Dark Glare was just a really really good deck. I played it season 2 for good results in wild. Season 3 When it was arguablly the better wild deck I played shaman and managed to deal with dark glare decks in wild just fine. So what about nerfing dark glare and not the quest in wild. Well your still going to get killed by apothacary after tamsin and control is still not going to be able to resolve it in time. So no change quest still sees play you nerf the aggro version of dark glare warlock. So you push out more aggro aggro decks from the wild meta and make the quest even more annoying for existing control decks. Standard the impact is minimal. Dark glare quest in standard isnt the issue the issue is that control decks just cant deal with tamsins effect in standard dealing face damage. They cant interact with the damage to remove it they cant out armor the damage in standard. They cant out heal the damage. The problem remains for control decks in both standard and wild.

    Hunter - Theres no card to nerf there outside the quest in standard the quest is 0 problems in wild its aggressive and again a way to push control out of the meta you again cant out heal it cant interact with it. In standard the deck is actually bad there is no good draw for hunter and your flooding your deck with cards that actually are bad. They didnt see play at all before the quest and with the quest they are still just bad cards. The +2 damage while not as flashy you could stack the benefits so bran in wild now your getting a 6 damage hero power in odd hunter your talking 5 damage / 7 damage hero power. Which is still very very strong but your not getting insane crazy turns that just go over the top of control decks to the point they cannot do anything about it. And in standard the card is just better getting a consistant 4 damage beats 2 damage half the time for the odd chance you get 4-6 damage out of it. The card draw just isnt there in standard.

    In the case of both the ideas i had for mage and hunter your giving them something else to play to you letting them build control varients with the quest and personally I think buffing the quests in some ways much like with the warlock idea it would be a buff in some ways in standard and a soft nerf in wild.

    In case of the warlock design the damage is interactable your still stopping damage to your hero completing the quest fatigue is still removed. Instead of dealing reflected uninteractable damage to the face with warlock. Your treating different sources of damage as threat generators. So instead taking the quest out of play with a nerf. At 0 cards in deck a back fire is making your 4 demons 1 from the backfire 3 from the 3 ticks of fatigue damage so your preventing 9 damage to face and generating 4 threats on table but those are interactable threats that means that a control deck has a turn to deal with the board before the damage goes to there face. 1 turn to interact is still 1 turn to interact. Something they did not have before. Meaning they have a better chance to fight back against the deck instead of a 10-15% chance to win the game they have a 35-40% chance to beat the deck instead and the match doesnt feel hopeless the second the see the quest played.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    The cards are going to get nerfed either way blizzard already said so. But the idea is that those are better ideas than making the cards completely unplayable.

    I dont think that would be a bad idea either @secludedMemory but it would make the card unplayable in wild and im pretty sure it would see alot less play in standard. It would still need to reflect fatigue damage to be playable in standard however if it only prevented prevented fatigue damage in standard. I don't think you would see it at all in standard if it reflected the damage it would at least still give a win condition from the quest. But I think even then it would see a lot less play hard to say because your getting no pay off for generating the damage. The card in standard isnt really bad. Warlock is more impacted as a wild card.

     Overall I think the mage quest is the largest issue of the 3 across both formats. All 3 basically remove turn 10 from the game in wild 99/100 games. I know that some people think generating a spell in from the mage quest is to slow in standard but essentially your creating the same amount of damage just with less burst. Spell mage worked last expansion the same decks existed last expansion aggressively as they do this expansion. Control does not. Either way they are going to get nerfed those 3 options I think are better than nerfing cards that make the decks playable.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    @legend_Entomb

    The thoughts I had are how to make the quests good in standard but not broken in standard or broken in wild. By spawning a random demon I think it might be better for the quest in standard for warlock but worst in wild it also makes a board state you can interact with. Like wise the mage is generating spells which means you are not going to go over the top with stupid amounts of damage that they cant interact with but instead more consistant damage so you can fight back with armor gain and tools. Both those have low rolls and some extreme high rolls.

    the hunter quest is just broken in wild and bad in standard so changing the quest to be less relient on spells gives it more power in standard and less in wild.

    The mage quest is just broken in both formats so. 71% standard win rate with best version of the deck over 220 games in comparison to the wild version which is lower at around 65% but wild is also a much faster format. It could lead to more control decks in wild as getting an extra card every turn when its not eating away your deck is so powerful. But its not broken. Your not getting insane amounts of uninteractable burst damage.

    I think all 3 changes would done that way would keep all 3 quest playable in both formats it would tone down wild versions a little bit cause theres no uninteractable OTK from just the quest but same time they are still good enough to see play. I think it would actually make the warlock and hunter better in standard and it would be slight power decrease to mage but the quest would still be very very good. Like generating a fireball, ice barrier ect would be very strong there is a similar effect in duels that I piloted to 9+ wins in duels the pervious season very successfully using the treasure. I dont think people realize just how good discover a spell that started in your deck every turn is. Having stupid amounts of frost novas, fireballs, apexis blast turn after turn in a no minion deck ect. Its just not over the top burn. Your not going to nuke someones deck to death with burst damage. I mean you could even run 1 incenerate and through card advatage create an inevitable kill still with mage. while using generated cards to stall out the game.

    the warlock one to summon demons has more high roll potential to be broken still however. Summoning 4 8/8 increase the cost of spell demons with taunt could litterly demolish a game on high roll but same time it can low roll and do almost nothing as there are some super low rolls as well. My bigger concern with summoning demons would it it could lead to some really crazy high rolls in standard.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    Added an edited note for the warlock quest above as another way of doing the quest for warlock however the second note would probably end up requiring a general nerf to dark glare again later. Or an outright ban of dark glare as a card. The potential to generate some very large demons could lead to some very high roll situations.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    Other ideas for the warlock quest would be reducing damage to complete the quest to 6 / 6 / 6 and them making it spawn demon minions every time you take damage from the quest. Instead of damageing your opponent which would also fit in theme with the demon seed and make it more interactable. But would give you some low rolls. It would also basically nullify the existing achievement from the quest which im not sure you would see blizzard push that change. But it would be another interesting way of doing the warlock quest that may be more balanced for both standard and wild.

    Those are 2 ideas for the warlock quest.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    @caobringer

    Its not really nerfing them its balancing them. So that more decks are viable as oppose to out right nerfing them. My ideas the idea is to make the quests still playable but not insanely busted. The hunter quest i think would be more playable in standard. I would be more tempted to play it in standard. I would probably still play mage in standard with the quest and I probably wouldn't not play it in wild.

    the warlock quest is more 50/50 but the quest itself is broken its far too powerful in wild. After Gold rank in wild 70% or more of your games in wild are basically vs warlock even with dark glare aggro wild doesnt have that high of a deck % for any single deck.

    The way to look at is do you want to play the same match up every single game. Nerfing the warlock quest while its balanced in standard the deck is completely broken and then some in wild. In standard it makes some decks unplayable. Basically you chance to win against quest warlock playing a control warrior / priest as examples is so low talking sub 15% that you would more often than not just concede the match before it starts. You wont reach turn 7 to have any chance of disrupting the deck and you dont have enough damage out to deal with it before the quest comes online. Slowing it down but keeping it there gives the warrior and priest a chance to develop threats and have answers to make the quest warlock have deal with those threats. It also makes other warlock decks more playable.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    I say hunter is undertuned in standard and overtuned in wild because in wild its just broken. In standard its to slow and the lack of draw / good spells to use with it makes it unplayable which is why i suggested increasing the hero power damage but not making it repeat triggerable. Because a passive 4 hero power damage for 0 mana to any target is eq to hero power mage with buffs not to mention there are ways to stack the effect. Hunter also lacks the draw in standard to make the effect as good as it is in wild currently and the ability to utilize chain triggers of the spell. Additionally by changing the final reward you can diversify hunter much more in standard and still make it good with the quest.

    Being able to run a mix of spells and minions I think would make the deck alot better in standard. Especially with alot more buff hero power there are ways to make it even better with minions like youthful brewmaster where you could get a 6 / 8 damage + hero power which is not bad at all for 0 mana or any multiple battle cry get a copy effects. Even with the hero power being changed you could still do OTK's with the deck in wild just far less consistantly.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    Quests specifically:

    Standard -

    Severly Overtuned: Mage

    Mildly Overtuned: Warlock

    Balanced: Demon Hunter, Shaman, Rogue, Warrior, Druid.

    UnderTuned: Hunter, Priest, Paladin

    Wild - 

    Severly Overtuned - Warlock, Hunter, Mage

    Mildly Overtuned - Druid

    Balanced - Demon Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Shaman

    Undertuned - Paladin, Priest

    That would be my accessment accross both formats the rogue quest I could put as undertuned for wild however I feel that could change over time / if the other quests are rebalanced there is a chance it could see play at least at levels lower than diamond rank and in dumpster ranks. Plus it would improve as more SI cards are added to the mix over time.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How to fix the United in Stormwind Quests

    Also in case you did not read this was specifically about the united in stormwind quests. Not other cards that need nerfs or buffs or vice versa.

    because if your talking standard I play OTK demon hunter for the most part and it needs nerfs probably more than paladin does. I don't play paladin in standard because I don't think in the hands of skilled players its as good on average as the other optional decks. If I was going to play in GM's I agree with a lot of people saying right now.

    Druid, OTK demon hunter would probably be on the list for sure. I would probably play warlock, mage, or rogue after that because shaman is to easy to tech against, I think paladin itself is actually just an average deck its numbers are padded by fact a bad player can do well with it. I just dislike face hunter in general the deck is a good deck, priest is too inconsistant in shadow and too slow for the meta as is in control, and I have never liked rush warrior again the deck isnt bad but its not amazing either in my opinion its average if control warrior was viable id consider playing it but current its not good except vs aggro so you have a 50/50 of getting blown out with control warrior and having a 0% win chance depending who your paired against. OTK demon hunter, Quest mage, Quest Warlock and if you ran into one a control priest are all bad matches for control warrior for the slight advantage you get in the aggressive match ups its not worth laddering.

    Note the last tournament with a held with a 3 deck list did have a control warrior control priest OTK demon hunter line up win with a group of players at legend ranks playing the decks. But being a smaller tournament with a more heavy aggro line up list its not going to give the best results on how viable those decks are. Its also not masters players for the entire event. Id expect youll see majority of masters line ups running OTK demon hunter, Quest Druid and/or Quest Mage in there line ups because all 3 decks dont really have super polar matches. Rogue also has no super polar match ups when piloted well.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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