Hearthpwn

The sequel should just replace what we have now with everything transferred over. It needs to be rebuilt from scratch and made much more efficient (so that my laptop doesn't sound like a jet engine) - also things randomly just get 'stuck' all the time. I don't think we would necessarily need to see the difference, I would gladly take the same game with optimised code. Perhaps the current version is what is limiting it in terms of animation speeds and other QOL improvements they could be making but can't. Unity engine is ancient! It will need an upgrade at some point.

After giving it some thought, I think that the only solution to the powercreep and most of the meta 'problems' is to increase the health cap from 30 to 35, maybe even 40. This will slow everyone down and make running higher cost cards viable. I don't think any particular deck is the issue this expansion - it is the sheer speed at which the games are played. This sounds great on paper for their target demographic but ultimately it makes games feel like player agency is unimportant. And that is not a good feeling. I've thought countless times to myself that there was nothing I could've done and was killed on round 5-6. I regularly kill on those rounds, too. This then means that everything becomes heavily draw dependent - curve into your wincon and that it's it. Don't curve and you're dead. 

To be honest, I am enjoying the meta, the cards, the combinations and the direction they took. I want to enjoy experiencing the game a little bit longer because of that. One or two more rounds would've been perfect and you will get that by pushing up the health cap without touching anything else. Even aggro would have to start using bigger cards - cards printed by Blizz to be enjoyed, wasting atm. I wish Blizzard made this move. They must be aware how powerful the cards they print are and must be planning something like this in the near future... I hope.

Quote from Xierotheos >>

The mage and warlock questlines stifle deck diversity; control decks can't really stop them and midranged decks/other questlines aren't fast or equipped enough to compete. So you're stuck playing aggro or these questlines.

Hope they're slowed down a bit, either through cost nerfs (incanter's flow, quest rewards, healing cards) or fundamental card changes (auctioneer, stealer of souls, dark glare, quest completion requirements)

Christ, mage and warlock are better at mana cheating than druid these days. So much for class identity

The posted deck list literally proves that the meta is diverse. Everybody complains about Mage, which isn't the issue (I don't play it, just FYI), it is not even on the list. It just has become the new Priest/Warlock. You only have two quest decks on this list out of 10. Cards should be nerfed for sure, but I am less sure that it should be Mage. Aggro should be hit because that is what is really stifling creativity.

Quote from BEEZY_HS >>

Some of these nerf suggestions are making me smh. Why all the desire to nuke cards out of existence? Incanter's Flow to 4? Give me a break. Also, practically no one seems interested in Shaman or Hunter nerfs? I'd wager the next vs report shows Shaman and Hunter as top tier while quest mage barely at 50% wr.

My two cents on nerfs:  To line up with the Mage hate; Ignite initial damage set to 1, Arcanist Dawngrasp to +2 spell damage also seems reasonable. Stealer of Souls to 5 mana or 4 hp, Darkglare to 3 mana or 2 hp or both, Granite Forgeborn to 5 mana or make it a 3/4, Arid Stormed to 2/4, Aimed Shot to 4 mana and Piercing Shot to 5 damage. These suggestions imo seem fair and subtle while keeping the cards playable.  Also, don't lose sight of Battlegrounds Battlemaster, this should not dodge the nerf bat, can easily be made 6 mana. 

Food for thought; Tour Guide to 2 mana, this card is boasting over a 70% mulligan wr in some decks. Fringe suggestion: Cult Neophyte to 2/2, Wriggling Horror to 1/1

 

Blizz' own data is already showing Shaman and Hunter on top (Mage didn't even make the list). Losing against them must seem 'fair' because the perception of power creep seems to be avoiding those classes (more specifically: that style of play). We got accustomed to losing to fast, aggro decks because we believe that that they are fair and counterable. Are they, though? One can argue that control is being pushed out by combo decks but I looked at the card lists and the two are not a million miles apart. I think control is simply underpowered and has been for some time. Priest before nerfs doesn't count because that was control done wrong with no wincon later in the game. 

Agreed on Battlemaster, it is very strong. I would look at Bannerman as well - tutor a minion and buff all minions in hand? That's strong. 

Does this mean Hunter will get a nerf? I will eat a sock if that happens! 

Nerfing it will kill the archetype, which isn't all that oppressive as stats demonstrate. And that may be fine but what else can Mage play that is competitive? I will personally try out some ideas but they involve playing high-cost cards and we know where we are with that.

And there aren't any alternatives for this style of play, maybe spell-heavy Quest Shaman could scratch that itch - maybe. So you'd be removing an archetype a lot of people are enjoying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist. Not a good move if I was Blizz.

The problem with balancing is that nobody knows what the balancing effect will have, really. We tend to think of this in isolation but balancing by nerfing has a direct impact on the power balance of entire classes. It is very hard to get right and only Blizz has a chance to get it somewhat right because they have access to these nerfed builds. It is a mistake to nerf when meta is still far from figured out and still diversifying and not totally broken, which is what we have here. I've been looking at HSreplay every day and it seems that every day is different. However, from that POV the meta seems pretty balanced as of right now. Every deck has an effective counter or two. Nerfing now is a mistake. Decks that people don't like losing to are not that great, objectively speaking. It matters, of course, but let's not call them broken. Speaking about Standard. 

Not even going to comment on the idea to redesign the quests practically from scratch; that's science fiction and not going to happen.

Warlock quest is balanced and offers some pay off for self-damage cards - I'm talking about the heals in between stages, not the final reward, as that seems to be the best approach right now in a Zoolock deck.

Mage is not doing so great against most classes so it's not an issue, really. Only the final reward is useful and that is what ultimately holds it back (i.e. slows it down).

Shaman is in a similar place but the reward is slightly better IMHO and easier to achieve (not reliant on a specific spell type). It is fine as is.

Rogue seems fun and varied - it is fine as long as it can rely on Shadowstepping effects. Bump the power slightly and it will dominate because of that, not the power of the 1x reward alone. DH takes advantage of the quest rewards throughout but needs to waste turns drawing cards instead of playing them. Seems like it's balanced, too.

Druid is underpowered slightly, so is Hunter. Priest is trash tier but bump it and we will never hear the end of moaning. Warrior would be good but the randomness of the final reward ultimately brings it down, as are any random effects in HS. 

Quote from Nihenna >>

Personally, I'm so very disappointed that shadow priest hasn't worked out.

They hyped it up for like a year, and then *crickets chirping*. Maybe it's not as much the deck being bad as the other current decks being strong, but still, what an anti-climax after so much anticipation.

 I think on one prediction thread I said that would be the case...

I think that Blizz created and supported every single possible archetype and every single one of them attracted complaints. Aggro - too fast. Control - to slow. Board play? To many minions to deal with at once. Burst? Not interactive and not counterable. Point of view depends on where you (like to) sit. Truth is, there is something viable now for everyone. Quick look at HSreplay and there's quite a few decks to choose from.

The way I see it, balancing is important and it will come because it has to. My Warlock deck does not have a card, which costs more than 4 mana - it is much faster and quicker than ever. It still requires me to think ahead and balance - should I remove? Heal? Self-damage? Drop a minion? For me, that is enjoyable and interactive enough even if I lose. Mage is a challenge but I enjoy it. I drop minions and remove them immediately myself to slow their Frost spells down. I think the main complaint is that the quests are too quick and rewards too powerful and too easy to abuse. Blizz will balance that, which means Aggro will dominate again as it always does as a result of these actions. Then everyone will be 'happy'.

The key to Warlock is come up with a lean, quick deck - my highest cost card is 4 mana! It's all about self-damage, healing and draw (also some removal). It works best when the quest is completed ASAP. Late game is tough because the opponent has enough mana to cause some big damage and that obviously interrupts with the quest completion. 

I think Warlock is in the best spot, maybe even better than Priest this time around, to control the board and survive (will you need more healing than Nethrazim, Bread Baker and perhaps the Quillboar towards the end?), having faster wincons as well. The existence of Questlines should slow down the meta by itself (provided they are played by enough people) as spending your first round to play that card is a big deal for aggro decks. Here's hoping.

Regret crafting Mozaki and Shadow Council recently.

Spell Mage with small modifications will be very good day 1. Why? Because everybody will want to play a lot of new minions and that is where the deck excels.

Warlock's quest will be added to every deck because player does not have to go to great extremes to complete it. Less greedy, lean Warlock decks will emerge and take over the control archetype in popularity. Handlock I am not sure of just yet but there's enough there to put a lot of pressure, and bodies, on the board so it might work. Excited about this class the most.

Almost everyone will be playing Cornelius Roame because why wouldn't they. Nerf incoming for that reason alone (although not sure what it would be without killing the card).

Shadow Priest will be a massive dud.

We will all be cursing two classes: Druid and Shaman. Shaman has a dizzying number of archetypes it can access now so it will be diversifying intensely (edit: after giving it some thought, can't help but think that the Overload Shaman is going to only be around 50% WR). Token Druid will come back big time, even though it hasn't really gone, and will have the most polarized matchups.

Rogue will be the most fun to play but it will struggle to stay competitive.

60 pack bundle: both legendaries for Hunter (the quest and the Rat King) I barely play and the new Antonidas for Mage. I know you can't expect to get what you want but wanted Warlock and Shaman cards and got barely any, meh. I have enough gold for another 46 packs and 2 legendaries I will get on Tuesday might be what I am looking for. We will see.