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    posted a message on Force of nature + savage roar or?

    If you need a replacement for Ancients of Lore I think Gadgetzan Auctioneer will do for awhile as long as you have enough spells like Claw in your deck.

    It doesn't take long to get a couple of Epics, especially if you already have a legendary - I'd immediately dust Cenarious for an Ancient of Lore and just play Arena to grind out your collection. I don't have any of the legendaries, but I have about 3 decent Druid decks and 1 decent Shaman deck with only a few weekends of playing the game. There are a lot of top ladder decks or competitive decks without Epics even, Shamans, Hunters and Paladins need, like 8 Rares maximum to be really good. Most of the Legendaries are overrated, Ragnaros is probably the only Legendary that's really worth the dust because Ragnaros and Sunfury Protector is GG.

    There are other decent replacements for Force of Nature too, Argent Commander benefits from both Savage Roar and Innervate lets you create board position. It's probably a better idea to say what cards you have and how much dust you have and then somebody can help you build the most competitive druid deck from that. I really don't think Druids need Ancient of Lore at all to compete, I bet I could make an Ancient Watcher deck that only used rares, curved out at 5 and monkey stomped the meta right now.

     

     

    Posted in: Druid
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    posted a message on Force of nature + savage roar or?

    Don't ever waste dust on Bloodmage Thalnos or Nat Pagle, they are just worse than Loot Hoarders vs aggro anyway.

    Manipulatur and BGH really aren't that great, if you want something that goes with Druids get the Ancient Watcher and Sunfury Protector (or Defender of Argus) and play Starfire or Starfall until you can afford the dust for Force of Nature.

    Cenarious really isn't that great, I'd rather play Ragnaros with the 4 Silence in the deck to go aggro. The 9 drop legendaries suck because you can't Sunfury Protector them on the same turn.

    I think this is the best "mid-range Druid" on ladder, just sub Ragnaros and Thalnos for Loot Hoarders and you have the budget version.

    Innervate × 2 0 0 0
    Ancient Watcher × 2 2 4 5
    Bloodmage Thalnos × 1 2 1 1
    Ironbeak Owl × 2 2 2 1
    Sunfury Protector × 2 2 2 3
    Wrath × 2 2 0 0
    Harvest Golem × 2 3 2 3
    Savage Roar × 2 3 0 0
    Chillwind Yeti × 2 4 4 5
    Keeper of the Grove × 2 4 2 4
    Swipe × 2 4 0 0
    Azure Drake × 2 5 4 4
    Druid of the Claw × 2 5 4 4
    Force of Nature × 2 6 0 0
    Ancient of Lore × 2 7 5 5
    Ragnaros the Firelord × 1 8 8 8
    Posted in: Druid
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    It sounds like we're facing the same Druid decks and comming to different conclusions, I've found mid-range Druid decks to be a serious problem because they empty their hand so fast with Innervate into a Chillwind Yeti or Violette Teacher depending on their flavor of mid-range for Divine Favor and attrition to be of much use.

    Mind PMing the list? I've been looking into Aldor Peace Keepers and Consecration as well so it looks like we're close to each other's game plan of sustained aggro. I just can't get behind Lepper Gnome, Arcane Golem and Leeroy Jenkins and the "finisher" approach, I'm losing too many to accelerating my opponent and disregarding board position.

    Blessing of Kings has been pretty decent tho', I needed another spell for the Warlock/Murloc match up to activate Wild Pyromancer.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    I think the problem regarding playstyle is that we're at different ranks by playing different decks on ladder, I'm seeing a shit load of Druids with anywhere from 4 to 6 Taunts like Druid of the Claw and Ancient of War or Druid of the Claw and Argent Defender or Druid of The Claw, Argent Defender and Sunfury Protector for Ancient Watcher or that disgusting Warlock Magma Giant deck or Priest Taunt into Legendaries deck.

    There is a point where what you guys are trying to do will either stop working or rely entirely on Divine Favor. I don't think what I'm doing is an entirely different deck to be honest, there's a bit of convergeance and the way I look at it is that Equality is honestly the highest damage dealing card in the game. I'm pretty damn happy to Equality my way thru' a Druid of the Claw with a Silverhand Recruit.

    What cards are you playing instead of the Chargers and Aldor Peace Keepers? I've tried Harvest Golems and Imp Masters and liked them quite a bit as well. Are you going for the Scarlet Crusaders or Shattered Sun Clerics? I find Bluegill Warrior and Wolfrider pretty irrepleacable myself, you need stuff that gets Patrick Nagle and Manatide Totem off the board pronto.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    It depends on what you mean by cards that help you actively try to win, if you're playing "Sligh" then you're concentrating on disregarding the board and burning down your opponent, but the problem is the deck tends to studder a bit as soon as the opponent establishes a board presence like an Innervated Chillwind Yet or Druid of the Claw or runs into a situation where it gets attritioned by cards like Loot Hoarder, Novice Engineer, Harvest Golem, Imp Master, Keeper of the Grove, Azure Dark, Argent Commander etc. or god forbid an Ancient of War, Ironbark Protector or Cenarious. That's where Equality actively wins games, it stops gold fishing and allows you to deal with their value cards and "board stabilizers" with a two card "Pernicious Deed" 

    Regardless, if you're going the "burn them down" route, I really think you should look into Worgen Infiltrator and Tinkmaster Overspark in the Noble Sacrifice and Millhouse Manastorm/King Mukla slot. Also I don't think either of those legendaries are playable by the way, you give your opponent free Swipes or double Wild Pyromancer activations and you are going to regret it.

    I think I'm going to give Blessing of Kings another try tho', it's another spell for Wild Pyromancer which I've really been at a loss for.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    I think the Divine Shield comment depends on the match up, a deck with a lot of spot removal like Warlock turns Blessing of Might into a "Lightning Bolt," but considering you've done 3 damage plus gotten them to trade with a token it's by no means awful - with that I agree with. What I don't agree with is that Blessing of Might draws Silence, opponent's will just hero power it, Swipe it, Wraith it etc. on a token and it's no where near the Silence magnet as Blessing of Kings is.

    I have no problem with Blessing of Kings and Blessing of Might in theory, I just think a metagame of Druids running 2 Keeper of the Grove and 2 Ironbeak Owl for Ancient Watcher makes it a bit more risky. I'm probably trading my tokens more aggressively while you guys are going for the kill more aggressively, which I think would explain why we have slightly different card preferences.

    @Tpib5

    Yeah, I think I like cutting Noble Sacrifice, Blessing of Might, Leper Gnome, Arcane Golemn and Leeroy Jenkines for Worgen Infiltrator, Equality, Wild Pyromancer, Aldor Peacekeeper and the second Dark Iron Dwarf right now and going for less damage two to face and to more board control.

    I still think the OP should look into replacing Noble Sacrifice with some sort of more pro-active equivalent.

     

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    Is Light's Justice any more of a "low impact" card than Noble Sacrifice? I've been looking at Worgen Infiltrator as a possible way to consolidate the aggro and the board control rolls of Lepper Gnome and Noble Sacrifice. I really think what you consider ":focus" is what I consider ":linear," in a perfect, aggro mete where we're targetting the opponent with our Chargers and we're playing our Arcane Golems and Leeroy Jenkins as our finishers, but our our opponent's have a say in the world too and if we can't compete vs the most common control deck with a linear strategy than we should try to adapt instead of abandon the deck. I mean what match ups does this deck have that are better than the match ups Hunter aggro has? Because Hunter aggro does not roll over to Druid of the Claw, and neither should this deck if possible. I really look at Reynad's Warrior deck for inspiration regarding aggro, because that decks seems to place in ladder while only playing cheap, durable beat down creatures without any Charge. I understand the "sligh" philosophy and people's desire to polarize their deck towards dealing damage, but I think Hearthstone is a little more complicated than that and if a deck that puts up maximum aggression folds vs a deck that absorbs impact then the obvious evolution should be "aggro-control."

    Yes Equality requires another card on the board, but that argument is irrelevant because so does Blessing of Might, Blessing of Kings, Abusive Sergeant and Argent Protector and yes Wild Pyromancer has "anti-synergy" with 1 drops and Chargers, but your opponent's should be aggressively trading their minions for yours in order to reduce their damage intake so I think if you accurately time your Pyromancers then you'll get cost effective board wipes. I kind of think of the deck as Hearthpwn's equivalent of "The Rock" if you're familiar with MTG.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    Aren't Hunters running at least 2 Ironbeak Owls as well? I suppose it's not an excuse for not playing with the card at all, but I see Silence effects in just about every aggro deck on ladder. Also after testing it, I think you're definitely right about Ironbeak Owls being better than Spellbreakers, you want to dump as much of your hand as you can before a Divine Favor.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    There's nothing wrong with the card, it's 4 damage before Truesilver and does roughly the same job as Noble Sacrifice, Redemption etc. at immediately establishing board control on T1 vs other aggressive decks like Warlocks or Hunters in order to protect your two drops like Knife Juggler or Wild Pyromancer. A lot of cards function pretty equivalently in that slot - right now I'm looking at Worgen Infiltrator - but your comment about Spiteful Smith or Wisp and Angry Checken just make you come off as an ignorant ass.

    @Simba,

    You may very well be right, I'm not certain whether or not a 4/3 is much better than a 2/1 and a 1/1 right now, I'm just trying out the subs. Yes big minions are hard for Druid to deal with, but Blessing of Kings doesn't make a big minion, it makes a big Silence target. Those Druid decks that run Ancient Watcher with Keeper of the Grove and Ironbeak Owl will make you strongly reconsider your opinion IMO.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    There's obviously more than one viable Paladin aggro configuration, but the problem with your Paladin aggro configuration is that it loses to Druids because it doesn't have the ability to clear the board with Equality. Cards like Blessing of Kings and Blessing of Might are only really good when they're combined with Divine Shield so you can get effective trades out of them, otherwise you want cards like Dark Iron Dwarf because they give you a multi-pronged threat. Blessing of Kings gives Silence too much value, there went your 7/6 Divine Shielded Knife Juggler ...

    I think I may be wrong about a few of the card choices tho', Lepper Gnome, Arcane Golem and Leeroy Jenkins may be a little too "all in" compared to Argent Squire and Aldor Peace Keepers, Spellbreaker seems to be a better drop than Ironbeak Owl and Redemption may be better than Noble Sacrifice or Light's Justice if you can get the synergy off of it.

    You really, really need to play Tinkmaster Overspark tho', if you use his ability judiciously then he's either a Blessing of Kings on a Silverhand Recruit, a Silence vs Druid of the Claw or you'll get the "fizzle" on Silverhand Recruit or the Polymorph vs Druid of the Claw for 3 mana. I understand if you don't have the dust for him, but he is a fucking amazing minion.

    I may be a little more "control-ish" with how I play the deck, but I think too many people are falling into the "compare everything in Hearthstone to Magic" trap and their aggro decks are too linear. If you don't get out of the gates with a very aggressive start, a deck like mid-range Druid is just going to laugh and roll over you.

    I've also seen other people making some more interesting subs, for instance Aldor Peacekeeper instead of Dark Iron Dwarf and Blessing of Kings or Faceless Manipulator instead of Argent Protector which I think are really creative ideas to deal with cheesy bullshit like Magma Gaint and Sunfury Protector. 

    Try changing your deck up a bit or playing against Druids and you'll see what I mean about the deck being too linear to have a late game.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on [DKMR] LEGENDARY: Paladin Aggro

    There are better versions of this deck on ladder, you're missing the Wild Pyromancer, Equality combo and Tinkmaster Overspark for one, and I think establishing board control with Light's Justice is better than with Noble Sacrifice.

    This should have superior board control and staying power, you don't want to play any spells unless they do something a character can't; Blessing of Kings for example is just a bad Dark Iron Dwarf. If you need substitutes for the epics and legendaries then Consecrate and Aldor Peacekeepers are decent enough.

    But man a Paladin deck without Equality is like a Mage deck without Fireball, I have won so many games thanks to Equality and Silverhand Recruit telling Ysera to piss off.

    Abusive Sergeant × 2
    121Leper Gnome × 2
    121Light's Justice × 2
    114Bluegill Warrior × 2
    221Equality × 2
    200Ironbeak Owl × 2
    221Knife Juggler × 2
    232Wild Pyromancer × 2
    232Arcane Golem × 2
    342Divine Favor × 2
    300Tinkmaster Overspark × 1
    322Wolfrider × 2
    331Dark Iron Dwarf × 2
    444Leeroy Jenkins × 1
    462Truesilver Champion × 2
    442Avenging Wrath × 2
    600

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on Shaman vs hunter - most one sided matchup in game?

    It's normal, the matchup vs Hunters is atrocious because Shamans have one of the worst, or least predictable, hero powers in the game with no healing and Hunters just burn them down. Blame it on the nerfed healing totem, every time you flip that totem you may as well have spent two mana scratching yourself because your opponent can play around it with impunity.

    Posted in: Shaman
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    posted a message on Coin should NOT be considered a card/spell

    I think we should wait and see how the metagame develops, I thought going second was better than going first given the coin and the 4th card to mulligan as well, but according to statistics going first and having a lead in mana development and board position are very strong advantages. I think it's only really annoying when a deck is built to take advantage of the coin, the rogue combo cards, Gadgetzan Engineer and Wild Pyromancer are just so much better with the coin than without it.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Wow Hunter's are broken ...

    Ancient Watcher is "ok" as long as your deck is built around it, you need like 2 Defender of Argus, 2 Sunfury Portector, 2 Keeper of the Grove and 2 Ironbeak Owl for it to be consistent, but the problem is once you remove Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Wolfrider, Bluegill Warrior and Savage Roar you've turned your entire deck into a reactive instead of a pro-active board control deck without any real finisher so you have to curve up to Ancient of Lore, if not Ysera and you're vulnerable to just being outraced by Warlock combo and you're basically walking right into the Unleash the Hounds combo by having at least two minions on the board. I think that's just too many cards dependent on Ancient Watcher to get value, Warlocks seem to do it better because they get Void Terror and Shadowflame. In every non Hunter match up, I really just want to go and kill my opponent with Charge if they have nothing to attack themselves.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Wow Hunter's are broken ...

    What's bad about it? It seems to be the standard mid-range Druid deck at mid-tier, I tried cutting Azure Drake for Ancient of Lore and got ran over, I've tried  Wild Pyromancer, Earthen Ring Farseer and Healing Touch instead of Bluegill Warrior, Wolfrider and Savage Roar and got ran the fuck over - that Inaki legendary Druid is pretty bad, all 3 of the legendaries are worse than the 4 rare drops I play IMO. I don't have a problem with Sen'jin Shieldmasta, he does what he needs to do and that's kill Harvest Golems. But cards like Healing Touch and Earthen Ring Farseer haven't been effective because they're card disadvantage that doesn't develop your board position. Those cards are good when you're trying to kill enemy minions and keep your minions alive in order to establish board control, or in a pinch bring you out of the red zone once you've established board control, Playing healing in response to permanent sources of damage dealing is just a losing strategy and you lose any "win buttons" like Savage Roar or Charge to play the beat down roll vs any other combo-ish deck like Magma Giants.

    I don't know if there's a version of this deck that focues on the combo more than the aggro without 1 drops or whether or not it's just a fluke of the draw, but yeah if they draw a 1 drop heavy hand then you should have no problem swinging away with your Hero power in exchange for card advantage and board position and calling it a day. The problem isn't really the speed or damage, that's addressable even without healing, the problem is Starving Buzzard/Unleash the Hounds and drawing a new hand. I have a pretty good record vs Warlock aggro, but Hunter is pretty awful. I think you guys are really kind of full of shit when you say "plays this laugh," what is "this" and post youtube videos of how "easy it is."

    Posted in: General Discussion
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