Hearthpwn

Fair enough, guess I misread confusion. Thought I would elaborate in case :P

Quote from Drag0nspirit »

As a Shaman, I was facing a mage. He had a mad scientist on his side of the board but no secret so far. I used my fire elemental with it's battlecry to kill his mad scientist, and then my minion was copied right away by the mirror entity the mad scientist pulled out of his deck. I was like wtf!

So I guess the order is: Battlecry > Deathrattles due to do the battle cry > Other effects.

I still felt weird that the minion is not considered as summoned simultaneously with the battle cry but actually is considered as summoned after it.

It has to do with the way the Stack resolves. It might make more sense if you compare it to the Druids choose one effect.

-Spend Mana> Choose one resolves> Summon resolves. Same goes for battlecry, Spend Mana> Battlecry Resolves> Summon resolves.

Triggered effects take place as soon as the required trigger is met, thus Sylvanas' deathrattle joins the stack when she dies on the tail of Deathwings cry and as a result Deathwings summoning resolves on the Mages side of the board. Mirror entity doesn't trigger as nothing successfully "entered" the opponents board.

Setting a minimum required class card count is the exact same thing as setting a cap on how many neutral cards may be included, I thought that was clear but I guess not ('-.-).

Also I think you kind of missed my point regarding # of copies allowed within a deck. yes Innervate and wild growth can't exactly be played around but a large part of the game is the tug of war players play to bait and dodge removal spells. Your custom Druid cards basically deny players the information they require for this tug of war by breaking the normal set # of copies limit. In this way it would become impossible to foretell what cards a druid has chosen to oversaturate their deck with and as a result would be denied equal opportunity at making good decisions. This is why I suggested a more active approach which grants your opponent the chance to deny you that extra card, or failing such, would at least inform them of the cards presence.

on another note.

I'm not saying all cards should be left completely as they are, but I think you underestimate the effects of some of these changes. HS has entire teams devoted to observing, and testing different components of the game, and for you, a single person to rise up and claim you know better seems pretty asinine. In the very least you had better be prepared to back up your points and adapt when confronted with additional information. This is how ideas evolve and is a large part of the design process.

You need to take others opinions seriously, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are doing so to be nasty. If you take the time to consider what they are saying you can learn from them and use this information to improve on your own outlook. The keyword is compromise, if someone points out a mistake or problem then fix it.

If you just came here looking for people to agree with you outright then you might as well have kept your thoughts in your head where we can't reach them.

Introducing a minimum required class cards clause for a separate "limited" matchmaking could be interesting. Otherwise it strikes me as an arbitrary limitation to impose over a game about simplicity and freedom to play how you desire. I create and play Gimmick decks all the time and finding ways to make them viable is part of the fun.

As for your card edits I would personally rather see our card library continue to expand (as it will be) thereby acquiring more options to play with. Changing cards which already serve purposes or which could be made more viable by said future card additions seems hasty and kind of malignant.

As for your custom cards.

I think I see what your aiming for with your ancient, however rather than making something that contradicts the only 2 copies of a card in your deck. Why not simply make a drop with (Deathrattle: shuffle (card x) into your deck.) I understand you probably wanted flexebility and choice, in which case just give it a choose one and provide the two options you think would be suitable (pick one: a)Deathrattle: shuffle a (card x) into your deck. or b)Deathrattle: shuffle a (card y) into your deck.) This keeps it simple and rather than being able to freely run 3 Swipe in your deck in exchange for one semi dead card (or 4 swipe in exchange for 2 dead cards) instead the ancient remains an active card and can be answered by your opponent. I feel like this still accomplishes what you're aiming for and conceptually I think it fits, like planting seeds in your deck for later.

Fandral also runs into the same issue of changing the game before you have entered matchmaking, I would suggest making it behave more like a Echo of Medivh but rather shuffle a copy of each druid card in your hand into your deck. This could perhaps be a battlecry as opposed to deathrattle but Idk it would need time and more input to be balanced properly.

 Fandral definitely needs some work because as is, it breaks allot of the general design concepts in the game. You no longer share the same 2 copy/deck limitation, your opponent has no way to interact with this mechanic, and it simply makes your deck more reliable and denies your opponent the ability to predict when you are out of any given removal.

time= money friend invest one or both into your collection. You might not start off at the top of the ladder but you can compete and CLIMB through the tiers of play without spending any money. No matter how far "behind" you are in your collection you can still progress. don't mistake an opportunity as something you're entitled to.

You can claim that the gap will become to much to bridge, but it won't stop other players from grinding... just you.

Quote from SsDrKosS »

wow lesson learned. NEVER STEAL MISTRESS

and I am also curious about 26 times. maybe that is the maximum times you can heal up your hero by a minion?

it's just the amount of health they had, the damage is dealt in single damage increments in an infinite loop so it just stops when their heart does.

I think it will make a niche for itself replacing Cold Blood in certain constructed decks.

All the spare parts and high tempo mechs could serve to mitigate it's cost through card synergy or a kind of tempo-control style.

I like the concept of getting Mimiron's Head, Concealed with buddies and next turn using a spare part to combo Tinker's Sharpsword Oil after it pops. Whether setting it up is feasible or not is up for debate but Iron Sensei and the fact that Harvest Golem will be a mech certainly help. 

Alternatively you could go bouncy weapon pirates with this. I say this mainly because of Ship's Cannon, One-eyed Cheat also could be strong if you can protect it or dodge removal. This makes pirates capable of some pretty steep tempo shifts in the mid to late game. card draw is an issue if you can't get the keys for your combos, but you can thin your top deck with Captain's Parrot and get extra value out of your minions with bounces. Deadly Poison, Captain Greenskin and now Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, and Goblin Auto-Barber give pirates lots of activators alongside even just your hero power. 

Any thoughts? someone brainstorm with me.

I've only read to page 5 or so but this is kinda what I was thinking

Seal of Light makes your weapon a makeshift Fiery War Axe for a turn as well as a face heal.

This might look reckless but it actually has an illusive amount of face healing and crowd control. Meanwhile presenting terrifying amounts of board presence potentially quite quickly. It may wind up being too inconsistent, everything will be shifting as we all adapt to the new meta so it may just get outpaced by new control cards like all these explosives.

Quote from Leaga » 

 

Listen to yourself, I mean... Nobody is defending new Druid cards by going "this is really good with innervate."  Any spell is going to be good with Prep. That's the point of prep. Its to make spells cheaper and better. I think if the defense to its too expensive is its playable with prep, then you kind of proved my point. 

 

lets be honest for a minute tho,why would you run this and prep in a deck instead of deadly poison and cold blood? And if you have both Deadly Poisons and Cold Bloods and Prep AND this, then your deck is either A) going to suffer from some very bad draws or B) need a miracle draw engine... Which they just nerfed.

 

And I'm not complaining about the randomness. That's fine. But generally when a card says random, its a little cheaper because the uncertainty makes it worse. It doesn't feel like this had that same logic applied.

Preparation is more of a best circumstance and I wasn't meaning to imply that it is THE card that makes this playable. Nor was I trying to say "OMG so STRONK" just that it has potential as core.

I was thinking something more along the line of a midrange tempo archetype would run this. It feels like you assumed I was intending this as THE lethal combo for the deck but that's not the case it would be 1 among several with interchangeable pieces. I just see it as making a deck archetype that I've been working on, a bit more consistent.(It lacked valuable mid-game targets for Preparation prior to GVG.) 

What I take away from looking at the GVG card list is that they want to open OPTIONS for class-deck archetype relations, and the one thing I see everyone assuming when observing these cards is that deck archetypes will maintain their current class associations. This makes it hard to portray innovative thoughts because everyone is running on different tracks of logic yet to be consolidated in actual game play.

My quote of your RNG comment wasn't intended as a "stop whining" thing, just a segue for sharing my two cents. You make valid points I just think judging new cards as specifically bad before having played GVG is a bit naive. We should discover them to be bad cards in Practice, not in Theory.

then again I question my sanity regularly so what do I know?

doubt it, the new meta will change the way locks have to manage their hand when playing aggro not to mention the soulfire and mortal coil nerf

Quote from Leaga »

So Tinker Sharpsword Oil saves you a card and gives you 1 more attack on your weapon, at the cost of 2 more mana, one less attack if combod, and 2 less attack if not combod. Oh and it takes away the control of deciding which minion gets the buff. I honestly would think this was overcosted even if it didn't have combo and flat out gave both effects.

 

Combo should be like overload. It gives clear value for the mana cost if played correctly but gives bad value if played incorrectly. Not only is the value questionable to begin with but then it is a relatively high cost for a combo card as well. I don't understand how anyone can be excited for this card after seeing the cost.

considering how many ways rogue has to bounce things on and off the board it isn't that hard too ensure the attack buff goes on a desired target such as a low cost charger our a bulky body who stuck to the board and if you Preparation out Tinker's Sharpsword Oil it only cost 1 mana gives you your combo and with leftover mana you ensure your buffed charger hits face.

I think you under value this, it is essentially a new win condition. We just have to construct something that can use it efficiently.

Quote from Syncesta »

The real value from this though comes from the fact that this is a valid target for Preparation.
This card is going to enable a shit load of burst damage and if the opponent has no answers to your weapon, they need to have defences in play.

the only reason I came here was to ensure that someone said this very thing.

Tinker's Sharpsword Oil gives Rogues absurd amounts of burst damage that they are perfectly capable of consolidating by removing taunts.

I feel like this lacks clarity but if it is the case, why would the card ignore it's own set condition. Does the target simply count as alive with 0 health until the spell resolves, thereby allowing the Lightwarden 's summon condition to register?

I guess it makes sense, just a bit misleading.

Quote from sageturk »

Blizzard apparently just wants to see  4,000/4,000 Blood Knight so bad it's wetting it's pants.

guess they better stock on spare pants, the most they'll ever see is 42/42 Blood Knight with just the battlecry.

the resolution of the heal is a condition for summoning the Lightwarden so yeah they enter unbuffed.