Hearthpwn

Quote from Guilherme123212321 >>

I think than it's better if this card was a epic card and not a legendary card, because his effect is not so strong for a legendary

That'd be a really cool mechanic despite being too specific, and would be the first one of its kind.

They're Legendary weapons, and to be fair a decent number of people were hoping for this. When ONiK's reveal season was going on, people were speculating the possibility of Mages and Priests getting weapons, even Rogues getting secrets. This is because it really doesn't affect the class identity really, but that it's improving and correcting them, and putting them more in line with what they really are: classes from WoW.

It made sense for Rogues to have secrets. With Pally, it made no sense at all (a lot of things in Pally made no sense, like Murlocs). Rogues now have the burgle mechanic, and now secrets. Mage and Priests get the staffs they deserve, and true to the nature of the classes they can't attack with them, unlike Shaman, Druids, and Warriors.

Level Up! is not garbage. You're just saying that because it's a familiar card. Level up! for the most part allows you to ignore your opponent's board and go directly to the face without worrying too much about scraping your own death. It's almost at the same power-level of Quartermaster, and I'd argue that it's slightly better.

What a terrible comparison here. Doctors generally have to deal with issues as soon as they know what the issue is. If they misdiagnose the issue, it may make matters worse. Ben Brode also isn't a doctor, he's a game director, and he is right in waiting it out a bit more.

I personally don't believe there's any waiting to be had, as I'm pretty sure Jade Druid as it is now is pretty broken, but I also think it's fair to for the HS team to wait a bit longer than 3 weeks to decide to roll in some changes.

This expansion is basically "if a MTG developer made hearthstone".....and that's AWESOME! 

This is definitely no TGT. The cards seen in this expansion are varied enough and challenges you to think a bit more about the purpose of these cards. This is not just a bunch of weird stuff added together, this is a bunch of interesting, weird things together; a bunch of cards where their value isn't 100% obvious like the way GvG was. TGT was nothing like this. The reason TGT turned out to be underwhelming was because the main theme of the expansion turned out be bad idea at the time, and I loved the Inspire mechanic.

This expansion added some complexity in the way I thought Hearthstone wasn't capable of. As for the them of DeathKnights, I find it hard to believe it'd go badly. Frost Lich Jaina, Shadowreaper Anduin. Deathstalker Rexxar and Uther of the Ebon Blade (if only for the OP weapon) DK cards are pretty good. Malfurion the Pestilent is lower in power level but also opens a different style of play (and is also very annoying. Thrall, Deathseer, while being simple, does require some thought towards whether his hero power would be a benefit or a detriment, now or later. And Valeera the Hollow has possibly the most complex Hero card out of them all, and just from a simple mechanic.

No longer in Standard.

Gluttonous Ooze says hello. The first thing you'd want to do is get rid of the weapon. It's stronger than Ashbringer. Then the game becomes a lot less stressful. You can proceed to disrupt from there.

here's no time limit that I know of, unless a bug happens and wipes out all of your free tickets.

That's exactly the reason why the card dump was smaller today.

It's not impossible. Could work out pretty well in an Elemental deck. Glacial Shard is already an amazing 1-drop, and it'd be great if Frost Shock becomes a thing again. 

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Ensaru64 >>

Freeze Mage can only play control until they get their combo pieces. Only in hearthstone we separate the two, but combo decks are control decks. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The only aggressive combo decks has been Combo Druid, Patron Warrior and Miracle Rogue. Mages also have their own tools in out-valuing a Priest, but if your first thought is trying to out-value a Priest using Mage, then now you know why you have so much trouble against them. A Mage's goal against a Priest would be to burn them down in as little turns as possible, to avoid a Priest the option to recover.

I completely agree. But it was the intention for Priests to have a win condition, as evidenced by Prophet Velen and Divine Spirit, but we all know how that turned out.

 

Mind Control takes an entire turn to play, and can't be played until the late game. It's very obvious why this card is a risk to put into a deck on ladder. If you are worried about Mind Control, then you bait it out, or do not play anything until you can deal with it. Patience is necessary against a Priest. Entomb is not as good as it used to be. Pint Size Potion is yet another card which does nothing proactive, takes up a slot in your deck and must be combo'd with another card. Priest doesn't have much card drawing options, by the way. And since we're talking about cards outside of standard, Druids have Mulch. Other than that, having a Priest spend a lot of buffs on a single card, in addition to putting in cards which requires them to have a board in the first place sounds very risky on the priest's part.

 

This is a very poor argument, and comes down to probability and luck. 

 

At this point, it seems you're just focusing on those times where a Priest stole all your good stuff (which doesn't often happen), than actually looking objectively at it. I mentioned Shaman because the Shaman class used to be very similar to the Priest class, where they're both a reactive class with some crippling downsides, and now, because they were given many proactive cards, they're better for it, but some people believe the strength of the class borders on absurdity sometimes.

I shudder to think how you'd accept stealing mechanics in other card games. In Magic: The Gathering for example, when you steal a card, it's not a copy, you're actually stealing it away. Also stealing doesn't allow a Priest to out-value their opponent unless it's something as ridiculous as Drakonid Operative (don't worry, I HATE this card too), or something like Thoughtsteal which only increases their card amount by 1. Also, the value is heavily dependent on what they actually steal.

Well, there you have it. The problem isn't the class, it's your perception of its flavor.

 

Which is why people have issue with Dragon Priest as it doesn't fit with the usual playstyle of the class, and instead makes it tempo-based.

 Not really, Freeze Mage can actually play the full control game if it wants to in certain matchups. A very famous matchup for this is the Miracle Rogue Matchup. As a Freeze Mage, you can simply play control all game, remove all the Rogues minions and run them out of resources without ever bothering with winning by the damage combo. You can also do that against Zoo sometimes.

Yes it was intended, we can see in those cards. To me it almost felt like they were going to design the Shadow Priest support and then suddenly decided to add also the Stealing cards and that filled up the space.

We started this argument discussing the power of Priest in Control matchups. Mind Control and Entomb and such are bad for ladder because it's Aggro focused. That doesn't really say much. Those cards are extremely powerful in Control Matchups. Yes you can play around them by baiting them or waiting for removal, but you simply don't have enough removal to deal with his threats, your threats that they copy from your deck/hand, and also the threats they mind control/entomb. You don't have enough removal for all of that. They have almost enough removal and big problem, they don't just remove your threats, they generate threats for them. This is extremely powerful in control matchups. Yes Druids have Mulch, want to compare Mulch to the single target removal Priest has at it's disposal?

Yes, it does come down to probability and luck. I happen to be on the sad side of luck, in most aspects of this game. That is one of the reasons I also prefer decks that allow me to come back from behind. I generally always tend to be behind, I am not lucky at drawing perfect curves, so I fall behind early game. By playing control and such, I am already prepared for that so I can come back in the game. This is not very relevant, except for the problem that the stealing cards have a really high tendency to fuck me over with their outcomes, even if their probabilities are low. (Couple days ago I decide to accept facing a Dragon Priest, basically, from 2 Drakonid Operatives, the opponent manage to get burn spells from my deck, when I had 20 cards left and only 3 damage spells left. I find it low probabilities, but still, they get them) So while it's unlikely they will steal Jaraxxus, with the way these cards always play against me, it's the most likely outcome :/

No, I truly wish that the unfavourable outcomes were very rare occurences. You would need to sit through all my games against Priest to realize just how unlucky I get against them. Do you think a long time ago I started keeping Ice Blocks in Freeze Mage starting hand just because I want to? No, it's just because they steal it so frequently that my best chances to beat them is simply keeping it in starting hand. (Which is generally the wrong decision as their chances to steal the Block are very low, in theory)

Shaman has always, since launch, had a sort of viable Midrange style.

I never played Magic. I played Yu-Gi-Oh, but actual cards that allowed to steal were banned from play, so it didn't matter, you couldn't use them.

Mind Control silences and destroys a minion from your opponent while also creating that exact same minion for you. This is usually a 3 for 1, that's outvalueing the opponent really hard. Entomb is basically the same thing, but adds the minion as a card in your deck, still 3 for 1. Cabal Shadow Priest does the same. Another cool example, Potion of Madness. This card easily 4 for 1 your opponent. You generally kill 2 minions with it, while also removing the effect of one of them from your opponent and gaining it for yourself. 4 for 1, with a 1 mana card. Ridiculous value.

Well I don't think it's really my perception alone. From all I've known of Warcraft, Priests identity is about Healing and the Shadow abilities. Stealing is a very tiny portion of the class. In Hearthstone, stealing is a pretty substancial part of the class while Shadow Priest is basically almost nothing. Doesn't make much sense to me. Added to the fact that those stealing cards are extremely infuriating to play against, I find it a problem.

Also the fact that Dragon Priest has some serious problems on the balance side. The majority of it's cards are all very high stated. This paired with their abilities help the Priest snowball extremely hard and to an extent which is almost impossible to counter.

Quote from DiamondDM13>>

I would argue Priests have pretty good control tools with all the stealing and AoE and healing. I'm talking about the class as a whole not simply standard. You are trying to make a comparison that doesn't make much sense. The Mage you are refering to is not a Control Mage but rather a Combo Mage. Freeze Mage is a Combo deck, which yes does play control in many matchups, but plays aggressive in others, since it has to play depending on what the opponent is playing. Control Mages will not burn down Priests, they will try to outvalue the Priests and fail at it since the Priest has more tools to deal with the Mage cards and it also steals more tools from the Mage.

Druids having lots of 4 attack minions is not much since Priest has Mind Control, Entomb, Pint Size Potion. Druids have big minions, so does Priest, and Priest can make them unbelievably big, which the Druid simply can't deal with, while Druids can't do that and even those that get big get Shadow Word Deathed and so on.

You can steal Jaraxxus if you want or get lucky, making it a fairly even matchup, but better since you fatigue later (The warlock taps, you don't, you already win the fatigue game). You also have more tools to take advantage of the Jaraxxus Hero Power than they do, they don't really have ways to increase inferno health for multiple trades and board advantage.

Midrange Shaman has no business in this discussion, I thought we were talking about Control decks. Priest can simply just steal and entomb the powerful cards in the Shaman and GG.

Well personally I think they did. The amount of frustration Priest has given me, compared to the amount of joy I would get from playing Shadow Priest builds if they offered more support, is a clear indicator for ME of how they fucked up. Obviously others might feel differently.

They clearly prefer having people scumbag steal everything from the opponents and win that way, and it's fair, it just goes against everything I enjoy and the way I am...

However, they have had active playstyles for Priest, Dragon Priest being a really annoying example of that.

Quote from GhostTrickx1 >>

Today I learned the makers of a digital card game aren't targeting the audience for digital card games. Btw, what kind of person is the person that plays Hearthstone, because last time I checked; we are all regularly in disagreement about everything in Hearthstone.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Ensaru64 >>

 This is no longer true, and has been that way for a while now. If you look at it objectively, the best control class is Warrior. Priest used to be great against Warrior when Hearthstone was officially released, but they tend to phase in and out of relevance all the time, and barely ever reaching the likes of Tier 1. It is very easy to beat a Priest as a control deck. You simply play nothing and draw less cards than they do, or play stuff only when you can effectively deal with it. Because the class by nature is reactive and permission-based, the hard truth is that you almost always have the upper hand before a Priest does. The only way you could lose against a Priest would be out of impatience, draw RNG and Drakonid Operative. 

The two most difficult classes to play in Hearthstone are Priest and Rogue. Priest players tend to always get greedy, as it is the nature of the class, but like Kripp often says, sometimes you win a Priest matchup by just waiting for them to mess up, which is very, very easy to do if you're a Priest or Rogue player. The only toxic card Priest has currently is Drakonid Operative, and that card is obscene. The only bad thing about facing Priest is the feeling you get when you lose, because of course it's gonna hurt if the class' entire shtick is using their opponent's tools against them. But all in all, unless you're facing Dragon Priest, you should be very happy to get matched against a Priest player, because it's the class you think is OP when you first play Hearthstone, only to realise it's very inconsistent.

In a Control Mirror Match between Warrior and Priest, the Warrior is naturally favoured due to hero power. Warrior automatically wins in fatigue. The only problems arrive when Priest start Thought Stealing your big bombs and you have to deal with multiple Ragnaros and such. So in theory, yes, Warrior is very much favoured, it is only dependant on how lucky his stealing is. Hence why I really dislike the stealing cards, they can at random turn a bad matchup into a good matchup by luck, not by skill. But this does not apply against other classes that want to play control. Warrior simply has the armour advantage, other classes can't beat Priest in fatigue, so they are forced to win before fatigue, and there is where the issue rises, you have to play cards to win the matchup, which gives them the ability to interact and steal. That ends up giving the advantage to the Priest.

Drakonid Operative is just absurdly broken, when I saw they were printing that card I just thought of how glad I was for not playing against Priest anymore.

I still find Priest to be very OP, I'm a Control player, always will be, and since I like to play more classes than just Warrior, I am always at a disadvantage in a control mirror against a Priest. They are inconsistent and rarely their card steals are useless, but most times I faced them, they always got best cards possible. I once had to deal with 3 Ragnaros and 2 Sylvanas from the Priest, when his deck only had 1 Sylvanas and no Ragnaros. and I was playing as a Hunter. Do you have any idea how hard it is to beat that has a Hunter? (I was playing Control Hunter) And the absurd amount of Ice Blocks that I get Thought Stolen, to the point where I had to change my mulligan to always keep the card, cuz even if it was a 1 in 20 chance, they always got lucky with it. This kind of thing really turns your stance against the class very unfavourable.

The way I see it, Priests should use their own cards. I play each class because I want to use their cards, not to use cards from other classes... In my opinion, Blizzard really fucked up Priests design. Instead of making all the stealing cards, they could have made much more Shadow Priest support cards, giving a much more fun and interesting identity to Priest, and preventing as much frustration as possible that the stealing cards cause. But it's their game, their choice, so I just don't play against them. It's a shame, I would actually play Priest a lot more if they had Shadow Priest support, but no...