Hearthpwn

This again?

I think the biggest offender is Preparation. I think they will nerf it to discount for less.. that way they can release better rogue spells in the future too.. Preparation has been a big design space constraint for far too long and we see how powerful it is with raiding party, which would be good but not insane card without prep making it free, I saw many games where people played Preparation Raiding Party into EVIL Miscreant, next turn waggle pick into 2 dread corsairs.. that combo is too consistent with prep.

I would say 3 rogue cards need to be nerfed:

EVIL Miscreant- to generate 1 lackey or to be a 1/3 the card is too durable and not worth to get rid of with 5 hp maianing it gets bounced way too often while surviving on board.. or make it so it generates less value/tempo with less lackeys.

Preparation- explained above, a big design space constraint, way too powerful with 3 mana spells.

Raiding Party- how this card even got past through the balance team? 

Rogue is my 4th most played class(after hunter,paladin and warlock) so I am not really a rogue hater but the amount of stuff rogue has going for is absurd.

Wont be nerfed in my opinion:

Edwin VanCleef- if they nerf prep they won't nerf him, also the class identity of being a trickster class goes very well with him.. he is a big "all in" card when he is big.

Leeroy Jenkins - the card is used in various ways just like zilliax, yes it's always a finisher but it has some skill expression when the right play is to play him for tempo.

Waggle Pick- if raiding party is nerfed I think this card will be less insane since it doesn't curve as well

Quote from Lyconik >>

Well, Elysiana and Azalina kinda do the same job but the first one is a 7/7 for 8 mana and the second one is a 3/3 for 7 mana

I don't play Control Warrior myself but I don't see Azalina making a comeback

 at that stage of the game you don't really care, it's a 6+ mana card that doesn't impact the board in any case, plus you don't have to run brewmaster.. which just saying... plays a 3/2 for 10 mana...

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

according to ViciousSyndicate the Oblivitron build is a "failed experiment"

basically it's a fun deck that has a few good matchups but a lot of bad ones too (namely the more aggressive ones)

If all you need is Nine Lives I'd say go ahead and craft it, at the very least it's a fun deck.

Alsso, since balance changes are most definitely going to target Rogue and Warrior there's a very good chance that Hunter will benefit from those.

 The problematic matchup is rogue.. and I am certain rogue is gonna be nerfed at some point this year probably really soon

I read the report yeah it's bad against rogue.. still a 52% win rate deck though.

Quote from EpicAD >>

It isn’t about elysiana’s power level. Card is very balanced and interesting, but due to 8 mana cost it’s effect can be used multiple times with bounce effects. Just raise her cost to 9 mana and 99% of the problems will be fixed. It’s not like you play her on curve, elysiana will still stay viable and powerful. 

 shudderwock will still be able to play her again.

I can see Preparation getting nerfed also EVIL miscreant is much much stronger than people initially thought he would be.

raiding party is also a problem card I can definitely  see nerfed

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

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Quote from Ace100ace200 >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

What's wrong with Elysiana?  So tournament games run long, big deal.

Cards shouldn't be nerfed for the sake of tournament health; they need to just ban certain cards from tournament decklists.  Yogg should have never been nerfed.  

 Completely agree. 

Banned them from Ranked too then, and i'll agree

Because, I certainly don't want to be forced to play a card just because other players want to keep playing her, and I certainly don't want to face that rng fest yogg in ranked ever again even in wild.

 This reads like, "I don't want to adapt to the meta, but I expect the nerfs to cater to me instead."

I did adapt though (look at the deck in my signature). Although I wouldn't call adapting to the meta. Adapting to the meta is when you play a tech card to counter another type of card that sees play. Archivist Elysiana just requires you to play her just to have a chance against other control decks running her. 

And again you didn't answer : why making elysiana 10 mana would make her any less fun?

 Or why being forced to play casual with her would make her any less fun?  

If the meta has control decks running Elysiana, then one way to adapt to it is to run Elysiana yourself.  

Sounds like you just don't like the Baleful/Brewmaster combo?  Why not?

 Why would I?

Make the game last +45 minutes.

Make the game more RNG dependant as one player can get screwed by just having a better elysiana than the other.

Risk hitting the turn limit, ending the game in a tie which is a very unsatisfying conclusion. (that's the personal worse thing about it for me).

Make your deck worst against every non control deck.

And don't get me wrong, if elysiana only made the difference in winrate 5% (which is already a lot), i wouldn't mind, I wouldn't be forced to play her. But in my experience, not running elysiana and facing an elysiana control deck is pretty much a loss most of the time, as the difference in fatigue and ressources is that significant.

 

 None of those reasons are evidence that the card is problematic.  

so now : why would she less fun if you made her cost ten mana? or if you could only play her in casual?

Because it's less fun to be restricted to a certain mode in order to play a card I want.  Because spending 10 mana on one minion is less fun than spending 8 mana on one minion and Brewmastering her back into hand for 2 more.  Because I like long games and shuffing a bunch of random crap into my deck.  Because I'm the kind of player who thinks it's hilarious to shuffle 20+ copies of Tess into my deck.  

 elysia isn't problematic beyond giving us amazing, long games. (which to me is "amazing", I've wanted this for ages now. had an entire 2 years almost of combo meta. we finally get a good control game and it gets ruined because of esports) 

she's getting nerfed cos "esports" dude. that's wak. 

f'ing fuming, mate. 

 what's amazing about her? she is only good in the mirrors.. and wraps the matchups really hard, control decks would do the same without her just take way less time to resolve, and it will make boom and hagatha worse since they will have less time to generate value o

Elesiyana is a really dumb card, there's nothing good to say about that card since it doesn't really promotes anything skillful you might think that adding 5 discover options makes the card a "skill card" but how it's used it doesn't matter WHAT you add really it just matters it prolongs games unnecessarily.

Control matchups are even more obnoxious than they were with DKs since they still have DKs.. making the only 2 real control classes Shaman and warrior with a rare priest which is only relevant cause it can copy elesyana 3 times with a decent-ish(Seance) card it runs probably anyway.

Control warlock is just inferior to shaman, and handlock is inferior to hand mage which isn't really a control deck.. so in the control decks departments we have warrior and shaman which without elesyana have less time to abuse their hero cards + not fatiguing.

Nerfing the card to 10 mana is NO GOOD... why? because shaman then can reuse it with shudderwock anyway and it keeps doing what it does.. it should be changed altogether to add the cards to your hand or to add much much fewer cards (around 4 or 3)  and even then a deck playing them 3 times...

She overcentralizes the control metagame all being about that cards and that card alone. I would like control decks to have a real win condition or if they want to reach fatigue, then they have to be careful about how much they draw, look for adding single digit number of cards to the deck to avoid the fatigue counter and caring about which removal they have or not wasted.

Now I think about it.. Icehowl deserves a buff really... but it just seems we got a better version anyway..

 66.6% win rate, fitting for warlock.

why winnielock though? sounds lame

So wrong. Secrets actually allow people to play mindgames and punishes people who can't play around them well.

One of the most basic and best skilltesting interactions that this game has.

Having friends is cheating... Blizz ban friends asap or I quit playing!

Really?...

I think the entire point of this post is so that the OP can call aggro players little children.

I've been play testing Handlock since the set came out, having a lot of success with it, just hit Rank 4 all the way from rank 14 (I haven't played the last two months). At first I was trying to fill holes in the old Control Warlock shell, but all the healing cards left kind of suck (Zilliax is the best by far, then Jaraxxus if you're really low). So I went all-in on the taunt package (because not taking damage is better than healing). Broodmother just isn't worth it with no demon synergy, and the heal would pop too early some games, so I cut it for Safeguard (way more value and combos with Zilliax). Beefy early minions (Giant, Drake, Faceless Rager) can overwhelm your opponent most times and you just win. Arcane Watcher has just been insane as a Shadowflame/Argus/Sunfury/Faceless target, and so many people will end up trying to get rid of it. Against aggro decks you just snuff them out gradually and win, and against control I've noticed early bombs or stalling into Jaraxxus/Rafaam is key.

With all the OTK/Combo decks gone Jaraxxus is also amazing again (especially with Guldan gone), setting him up against another control deck is usually hard for them to out value. I also cut Twisting Nether because you end up nuking too much of your own board most times, I subbed in Mosh'Ogg Enforcer as another taunt bomb which can also be targeted by Faceless (though that 8 mana slot is flexible). I'm running 2x Shadow Flame which is much better than Twisting with all the good sac targets. Rafaam has been surprisingly strong, though you don't always need to even play him. I try to get Jaraxxus down or make sure I'm controlling tempo before I ever play him. One crazy game he gave me Talanji and she summoned my whole hand. He also nukes the effect of Bomb Warrior/Hakaar decks at the right moment. Anyway, here is my list if you wanna check it out.

### Handlock
# Class: Warlock
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Dragon
#
# 2x (1) Mortal Coil
# 1x (2) Acidic Swamp Ooze
# 1x (2) Ancient Watcher
# 2x (2) Doomsayer
# 2x (2) Sunfury Protector
# 2x (3) Arcane Watcher
# 2x (3) Faceless Rager
# 2x (4) Defender of Argus
# 2x (4) Hellfire
# 2x (4) Shadowflame
# 2x (4) Twilight Drake
# 1x (5) Rotten Applebaum
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 1x (6) Safeguard
# 1x (6) Siphon Soul
# 1x (7) Arch-Villain Rafaam
# 1x (7) Lord Godfrey
# 1x (8) Mosh'Ogg Enforcer
# 1x (9) Lord Jaraxxus
# 2x (12) Mountain Giant
#
AAECAcn1AgrdBIkGigfMCMXzApz4AqCAA9iJA5eXA8CYAwqKAZMB+wX7BrYH4QeNCMQIrpsDyJ0DAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthston

Nice deck! I’ll be trying that one out day 1

Ditto to all DKs, plus Genn and Baku.

What is this "Hunter player" you speak of? My copy of Hearthstone must be different from yours because I can play any class I want.

If a class I've been playing gets worse, I just switch to one that's good.