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    posted a message on Data Reaper Report 24. Shaman is around 25% of meta .

    The big problem with Midrange Shaman is that it has no weak matchups (outside Freeze Mage, which is pretty bad against everything else). Traditionnally, aggro decks lose against control, and midrange decks lose against aggro. The thing is, with extremely aggressive starts (Tunnel Trogg, Totem Golem), efficient removal and board control (Spirit Claws, Maelstrom Portal, Thing from Below) and value plays (Thunder Bluff Valiant, Feral Spirit, Fire Elemental), Shaman has it all. It's a Midrange deck (inherently good against Control) that does not lose to Aggro, and has enough early pressure to aggro out other Midrange decks, thus pushing everything out of the meta.

    Come rotation, unless they're replaced, the powerful early starts, and the best value card, will be gone, turning the deck into a more traditional Midrange controllish build, a la old school Midrange Paladin. For now, it is hard to choose what to target - should we cut down on the efficient answers, making the deck vulnerable to Aggro, but possibly hurting the class in the long term (since those are all cards that will remain post rotation)? Should we destroy the late game plan, forcing the deck to play aggressively? Should we axe the early plays, possibly making the deck vulnerable to other tempo / midrange strategies? Choices, choices, choices... 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Freeze Mage, One Of The Harder Deck To Pilot??
    Quote from Boldelar >>

    Freeze mage requires skill for both players. That's the reason CW wins against them and zoos get rekted.

     Control Warrior vs Freeze Mage is probably the least skill intensive matchup in the game for the Warrior. He could pretty much roll his face on his keyboard and armor up each turn and still stand a good chance of winning. (For the Mage, that's another story.)
    Now, as others have said, Freeze Mage is not an easy deck to master. It has a very specific set of answers, and a combo win, so it requires the pilot to know his list very well AND the opponent's most likely list. It is however very forgiving against many decks - slow-ish midrange decks who pack lots of removal and not too many threats.
    I would not recommend the deck for a beginner, though, not because of the skill required (it may be complex, but no deck is very hard, this is still Hearthstone) but because the deck functions under such a different paradigm that the skills it develops are difficult to transfer to piloting other decks. It teaches itself, but not the game in general.
     
    Posted in: Mage
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    posted a message on Group therapy! Need to blow off steam? Mega salty? Here is the place!

    The real problem with Midrange Shaman... Is that the only deck with a favorable matchup againsy it is fucking Freeze Mage. Which means more and more people play Freeze Mage. Which, really, means I won't play in Ranked for at least a few weeks. Stupid uninteractive piece of shit deck that makes you lose SO MUCH time (seriously, roping to cast Arcane Intellect and pass?) and sucks the fun out of the game EVEN WHEN YOU WIN.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on What class will be the worst?

    Well Shaman will still have Thing from Below and the Evolve style cards, so it might lose its aggressive starts, but could still have some potential, no matter what the next set brings.

    Warrior, Mage, Hunter, Druid and Warlock all have a strong enough Classic set that Blizzard would have to work really hard to make them bottom tier.

    Rogue will always have some kind of Miracle deck, so I doubt they'll drop too far. N'zoth will still be in standard as well, and they have an okay-ish deathrattle curve.

    This leaves Paladin and Priest, whose Classic sets basically have the same problems - weak early game. Although I wish Priest would be rescued from the scrap heap, I honestly think the rotation hurts them more than it hurts Paladin. Unless Blizzard actually pushes the class heavily, I'm going to bet on Priest still being the worst class, until at least another adventure boosts them, on top of the rotation.

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Acolyte Pyro Commanding Shout

    What WaffleMonster said. Commanding Shout works by preventing damage once your creature is at 1 health - thus no Acolyte of Pain, Dragon Egg or Patron Warrior proc. I haven't played with this before WotOG, so it might have worked at one point, but it's been this way, at the very least, for a while.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Is this the healthiest meta ever? (Standard)
    Quote from ambershee >>



    Vicious Syndicate's current deck rankings, using high volumes of collected data (over 50,000 games).

    They list Spell / Yogg Druid as tier 1, but if you look at those actual scores, Shaman is way out in front and Druid is tier 2. Tempo Mage, Beast Druid and Secret Hunter are just about playable, everything else is more or less a bust.

    This is the least healthy the game has ever been, including pre-nerf Undertaker Hunter.

    Have you read the article you just quoted? They literally state that it is very close to being the most healthy meta one can hope (in their words : "what we can gather from the data is that the Meta is close to being healthy, and instead of multiple broken mechanics, we have one clear offender"). There is exactly one boogeyman - Midrange Shaman - and every other class has at least one archetype that has an aggregate winrate over 48%, with 6 of the 9 classesbreaking 50%, sometimes with more than one archetype. An expected winrate of 48-50%, properly teched and piloted, can be improved enough to get its player to Legend.

    Priest could be improved a bit, and Midrange Shaman needs to be toned down - however, while it is way over the top, it does not currently strangle the meta the way old school Miracle Rogue, Undertaker Hunter, Secret Paladin, or Aggro Shaman could (we'll see about that next week, I guess). All classes have a fighting chance - we are so close to a perfectly healthy meta, at least class balance-wise.
    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Yogg nerf not impactful

    Well it still does the same thing it did - (sometimes) turn a sure loss around. It can even hit the same power peak, with some luck (double Flamestrike the opponent's board into Call of the Wild into Sprint). The fact that it stops when it leaves doesn't change much, although it makes the most powerful Yoggs less frequent - but hey, it's not like the card was run for its reliability.

    They probably should just have banned it from tournament play if they felt it was a problem there, but that would have set a precedent they were not comfortable with.

    For the record, although it does sometimes feel very bad for the receiving player, I don't think it's a problem card. The top players still rise to the top, and as Kibler aptly put it a few days before the nerfs, if you look closely, most matches where Yogg is played are still won by the player who led before. It steals games (but not as many as you'd think), but so do a lucky spell from Babbling Book, or a drawn-at-the-perfect moment Call of the Wild or C'thun. It is natural that costly cards severely impact the game, Yogg just does it unreliably, in a flashy manner, which creates frustration and perception problems.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on A Friendly Game of Chess - Tavern Brawl #69
    Quote from bitsnack >>

    ive played 6 games: black won them all? is this pure luck or faith? (im 5-1)

     Assuming similar draws, first one to damage MINIONS wins (who cares about the one face damage white gets if he plays a pawn T1). If White plays a pawn, he gives all the advantages to Black - who gets an additonal card (better selection on top of more resources), a way to accelerate his game plan and the initiative in taking over the board.
    I have never seen White win after playing a pawn on turn one (not that it's impossible, but it's not happened in the 10+ games I played). I have however won by passing the turn, and jad a very tight match as Black versus a White player who skipped the first turn.
    Posted in: Tavern Brawl
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    posted a message on What is an average win rate for a "viable" deck?
    Quote from FranzLimit >>

    People who get 80-90% winrate without lying or sabotaging the result (with way to small sample size or intentionally only playing in low ranks) usually make a perfect meta call. After a new expansion hits this happens quite often. (I also went with 80% winrate from rank 20 to 5 with zoolock, the day Dark Councilman was released for example) Good deckbuilders can even adapt between 2 expansions fast enough to the meta and build "perfect" counter decks. The thing is that after about 2 months more or less all counters have been discovered and the meta falls in a stalemate. -> it becomes harder and harder to build the perfect counter deck.

    Anyway, those super high win rate decks are possible but they are more or less impossible to netdeck because when more people use this deck it will imiedeately be countered too.

    As allready mentioned in other comments everything above 50% is good enough for legend if you have enough time. Tier 1 net-decks are usually slightly below 55% win rate, as far as I know.

    If you aren't a great deckbuilder you can still dramatically increase your winrate with the right tech-choices. Just look which decks your opponents play most of the time and try to swap 1-2 cards to make those match ups a bit better. Looking at tempostorm for example also helps a lot because these are usually the decks which at least 50% of the people on ladder are playing.

     This. The actual "best decks" hover around a global 53-55 % winrate, taking into acount what they're likely to face. To go above that you have to find an excellent counter to the most popular decks - which is difficult right now, because the three most popular classes prey on each other (Shaman beats Hunter beats Warrior).
    To my knowledge, there isn't a deck that has favourable enough matchups against even two of those to make a dent, let alone all three. So it becomes a meta reading game - arr youplaying against only Shamans? Whip out the Warrior lists - they might have only around 50% global winrate, but they can go above 60% against Shamans if properly built. Start seeing lots of Hunters? Go back to midrange Shaman.
    Or you could ignore all that and develop an expertise with a deck that has pretty even matchups across the board - Token Druid, Tempo Mage. By being an excellent pilot, you can bring them just above their expected winrates (50-52 %) while having no very weak matchups and grind your way to Legend.
    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on How do I kill all these murloc decks!?!?
    Quote from Infirc >>

    Entomb, Hex or Polymorph one Warleader.

     
    Quote from Infirc >>

    Entomb, Hex or Polymorph one Warleader.

     You actually need to do it to both, unless your deck has lots of healing and / or you can reliably keep a taunt in play. First AcH brings back 1 Warleader and 2 Bluegill = clear two 4-health minions. If this Warleader dies, the second brings back 2 Warleaders and 4 Bluegill for 24 damage, usually enough to get lethal, especially with a weapon charge. Add to that that you may well face a third AcH from Ivory Knights, and even one dead Warleader pushes this into extremely lethal.
    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Whats the most consistently hard matchup?

    Along with echoing the Control Warrior versus Freeze Mage, I'd like to add pre-WotoG Anyfin Paladin versus Control Warrior, which also had around 80-90 percent winrate.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on New charge = new combos?

    Foe Reaper in Wild does the same thing as the Magnataur and might actually survive. It's also become a nice combo clear card along with Wild Pyromancer and Commanding Shout - I could see Patron opting to play one.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Best Nerf / Worst Nerf - Balance Changes 6.1.3

    Best - Charge and Tuskarr Totemic.

    May OTK decks disappear forever, and may Shamans actually play their games out rather than roll a die to see if they win.

    Worst - Rockbiter Weapon and Yogg-Saron.

    Rockbiter was one of the few decent cards in the Shaman Classic set, and while this does slightly nerf the class now, it leaves it worse off post rotation, making its basic tools even weaker.

    Yogg-Saron might have been a problem for tournaments (although it was more problem of perception, as Kibler put it) but this change lessens its "wow" factor (making him undesirable for the casual player), makes it even more unreliable (making him undesirable for competition), while keeping the same power ceiling (aka the actual problem). If the ceiling was too high, they should have changed it some other way, and if the credibilty of HS as an e-sport was in play, they should just have banned it from tournaments so the non-pro players could still have fun with it.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Plays you see people make often that you think are bad/dumb?

     Casting Wrath for 1 damage + draw to kill a weak minion (say a 3/1) when you could have used the druid hero power. Now I know sometimes you really need to draw action, but honestly I don't see how dumping a removal spell (that could have killed something else on a later turn) is a good idea. Sure, you saved 2-3 health, but removing a 3-4 health threat later would have saved you at least as much, on top of being able to target minions hiding behind taunts and / or getting value from Fandral...

    Posted in: General Discussion
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