Hearthpwn

Quote from Timowil1 >>

Well if people hear deck 1,2,3 is OP like 90% of the playerbase will only play those 3 decks. There are 9 classes. and if 10% decide to play deck 4,5,6 that are considered not that great but still fun they play it.

and then you have the trash tier which no one wants to touch because it sucks and is not fun to play.

Warlock just takes that spot at the moment. It used to be hunter. another time it was shaman and paladin was there once.

It will always be that way in standard. In wild i think this won't happen because there will always be atleast 1 viable/fun deck to play for a class with all the card available.

I think they've wanted to delete Warlock from the game for awhile, if you look at the changes to Classic like Magma Giant, Big Game Hunter, Ironbeak Owl and Power Overwhelming all of  them disproportionately nerfed Warlock. I still don't understand how Power Overwhelming was rotated out when it's worse than Blessing of Might barring specific synergies that take advantage of the minion dying. I think after Classic Handlock, Reno/Kazakuslock and Zoo they've just given up on trying to balance Life Tap.

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

Quote from Deftmove >>I think the Brawl will have been a positive experience if Blizzard learns anything from it, hopefully they'll nerf Alexstraza, Iceblock, N'zoth and Patches the Pirate so games suck less.

 You just provided two direct counters to things like N'Zoth and you want Blizzard to nerf it?

 

Deck is garbage, I've rolled it on ladder with Renolock - it's late game doesn't mean shit when it only has 1 Brawl in 35 cards for N'zoth and no burst for Jaraxus, you're better off with Quest/Reno I think.

Crafted a Wrathion and still trying to find a deck where he makes a bigger impact than any other 6 drop, I've never seen a card as technically good be so practically mediocre.

You've misquoted me, I never said Patron Warrior and Worgen Warrior needed to be nerfed, I said Patron Warrior and Worgen Warrior were nerfed for being OTK combo decks and that Blizzard should nerf Freeze Mage for being an OTK combo deck as well because they've established a design precedent for what is and isn't allowable in their game aren't applying that precedent to Freeze Mage because they removed Ice Lance from Standard and don't balance for Wild currently.

I agree Golaka Crawler is much closer to Big Game Hunter than Kezan Mystic or Eater of Secrets is, the problem with Kezan Mystic or Easter of Secrets is that even tho' they're effective at what they do they don't have the statlines or the utility to justify them so cards like Ice Block are effectively unchecked. These two groups of cards fall along the paradigms of too good at what they do or not good enough at what they do compared to the third group of Acidic Swamp Ooze or Gluttonous Ooze which have good stats for cost and fair utility across classes and game impact.

I'm not certain what  cards you're referring to in Magic so let's just say Necropotence or Yawgmoth's Will, the difference here between Magic and Hearthstone is that Magic has player interaction on the opponent's turn, counter spells and discard to stop those cards from resolving and they're restricted to 1 per deck because they do win the game as soon as they resolve. That doesn't mean that the cards were well designed or that Magic is a model worth following, Copernicus may have made his Heliocentric observation for other scientists to build upon but I wouldn't refer to him on matters of modern space navigation.

Rock, Paper, Scissors is NOT a model for CCGs, in fact it was a test question for AEG beta testers and those who said it was were disqualified from R&D, because even tho' Rock, Paper, Scissors represents a balanced toy game it has polarized win percentage where Rock beats Scissors 100% of the time, Scissors beats Paper 100% of the time and Paper beats Rock 100% of the time. If you look at another model for CCGs like Chess, you'll see it's a balanced toy game that has depolarized win percentages of 50% when two players of equal skill play each other and is a much better model for CCGs to follow. If I rememer the questions it was "which game would be the best model for a TCG and why, Rock, Paper, Scissors, Backgammon, Chess or Poker?" RPS was a disqualification, Backgammon was a pass based on the explanation for why you would apply RNG to a game and Chess was a pass based on the explanation for why a game needs multiple solutions to reach equilibrium points, and Poker was a pass baed on the explanation for why a game needs imperfect information to increase the relative skill gap between players.

Returning to Hearthstone, I think the game has done a lot of things right at its core like implementing the intellectual property and the user interface, but the card design has been horrific because Team 5's R&D are a bunch of incompetents who have ridden to success on the coat tails of World of Warcraft and tech support.

Quote from ArgentumEmperio >>

Quote from HybriddShadow >>

Quote from Deftmove >>

I think the Brawl has shown how terrible the format is, you have Freeze Mage destroying everything that isn't designed to destroy it and then you have Control Shaman destroying anything that is designed to destroy Freeze Mage. What's even more stupid is how Blizzard "fixed" Pirate Warrior by nerfing Smalltime Buccanner and printing Golaka Crawler, because now Pirates are either the best one drops in the game, the game ends on T2 when they Golaka Crawler you, you lose if you draw Patches the Pirate in your opening hand or you win if you play a Ship's Cannon and a 1 man Pirate.

So in short, Pirates is the best/only aggro deck in the format because of their speed and board control, but at the same time Pirates is the easiest deck to hate out of the format because Golaka Crawler ends the game immediately. Freeze Mage gained too much survivability between Arcanologist and Primordial Glyph to lose to aggro now, Shaman gained too much board control with Volcano to lose to aggro now, there is no aggro alternative to Pirates unless you're playing the Bloodsail Corsair, Patches the Pirate and Golaka Crawler package at which point you're just a worse deck vs Freeze Mage or Control Shaman.

You would think Control Warrior could deal with this nonsense, but you still have Jade being an unneeded mechanic that invalidates control and it loses the N'zoth battles to Devolve and Kazakus so you're only left with Quest Warrior as a meta solution. If you play any other control deck than Warrior you just lose to Freeze Mage's OTK or Jades so you had better play Loatheb and Eater of Secrets in your 30 and be prepared to play the beatdown roll.

I think the Brawl will have been a positive experience if Blizzard learns anything from it, hopefully they'll nerf Alexstraza, Iceblock, N'zoth and Patches the Pirate so games suck less.

 

 How do you nerf patches or ice block?

 You don't.

That's really the simple answer to this question... the Wild format is the collection of all collections. That means that cards that decks will be optimized to the point where folks start to hate on random things. That's really the full extent of why folks dislike Patches the Pirate and cards like Ice Block.

Don't listen too much in regards to posts like the one you replied to as well... all cardgames are good for a very rock-paper-scizzor behaviour as it will push people to design the next <object that needs to be countered by another object> and hating on that... Well... its the primary means that means that cardgames even can be competitive to begin with so...

Eh, all I am saying - don't read into rage posts that belong in the mega salty thread... ^^'

I think the Brawl has shown how terrible the format is, you have Freeze Mage destroying everything that isn't designed to destroy it and then you have Control Shaman destroying anything that is designed to destroy Freeze Mage. What's even more stupid is how Blizzard "fixed" Pirate Warrior by nerfing Smalltime Buccanner and printing Golaka Crawler, because now Pirates are either the best one drops in the game, the game ends on T2 when they Golaka Crawler you, you lose if you draw Patches the Pirate in your opening hand or you win if you play a Ship's Cannon and a 1 man Pirate.

So in short, Pirates is the best/only aggro deck in the format because of their speed and board control, but at the same time Pirates is the easiest deck to hate out of the format because Golaka Crawler ends the game immediately. Freeze Mage gained too much survivability between Arcanologist and Primordial Glyph to lose to aggro now, Shaman gained too much board control with Volcano to lose to aggro now, there is no aggro alternative to Pirates unless you're playing the Bloodsail Corsair, Patches the Pirate and Golaka Crawler package at which point you're just a worse deck vs Freeze Mage or Control Shaman.

You would think Control Warrior could deal with this nonsense, but you still have Jade being an unneeded mechanic that invalidates control and it loses the N'zoth battles to Devolve and Kazakus so you're only left with Quest Warrior as a meta solution. If you play any other control deck than Warrior you just lose to Freeze Mage's OTK or Jades so you had better play Loatheb and Eater of Secrets in your 30 and be prepared to play the beatdown roll.

I think the Brawl will have been a positive experience if Blizzard learns anything from it, hopefully they'll nerf Alexstraza, Iceblock, N'zoth and Patches the Pirate so games suck less.

It literally packs up and goes home vs any form of Reno control, Devolve is much worse vs N'Zoth than Kazakus is.

Does any body know why the deck doesn't use Sylvanas or Dr.Boom at all?

Ragnaros isn't very good in my opinion, I don't even play him in Control Paladin and you can substitute him for another Lay on Hands if you want value/healing in one card. Sunkeeper Tarim however is bonkers and playable in pretty much any archetype, and he's Standard legal for an extra year if that matters.

Wild is actually pretty diverse, you'll get your fare share of Pirate Warrior and people running answers to Pirate Warrior on your way to Rank 5, but once your there it's a lot of people's pet decks and once your in Legend it's super greedy control decks. The meta was kind of shit last month because all of the standard ass holes were playing Quest Rogue and Quest Warrior because they can't reach Legend on the Standard ladder, but this month has been more Wild esq decks and quite a bit of Zoo to make all of the people running Golaka Crawler and Acidic Swamp Ooze look stupid (and that is a lot of people).

Quote from Kovachut >>

well i crafted her to make DR decks and the quest priest one - i'm not saying that i am in an euphoria, while playing her, nor that i regret crafting the card

 

i think it's like you said:

I understand non deathrattle decks are more popular atm but is this card worth crafting for deathrattle priest?

and also correct me, if i'm wrong, but wasn't that the case with brann back when LoE was released; i don't remember people using him that much, he was rather used in fun decks

Umbra isn't even great in Wild, the difference with Brann is that he has game winning synergies with cards like Kazakus and Antique Healbot where Umbra just gets a little extra value off of Sludge Belcher and Piloted Shedder. Yeah it's a good snowball card, but honestly even the cooler combos are pretty meh.

Quest Warrior only loses to Control Paladin and Jade decks really, I just face rolled my way to Legend with it yesterday. Sometimes having to give up a card for the Quest lets aggressive midrange deck's nut draws get there, but as long as you play smart vs obvious archetypes like Hunter and mulligan the Quest away or don't play Sulfuras unless you're going to win that turn then they're not that big deal of a deal.

People are just know figuring this out when it was obvious at release it was going to be the best deck? Lol, it was pretty clear it was broken when people were using it to climb ladder in Wild and beating most of the other control lists with Standard cards. Quests were awful for the game, all we can hope for is that shit card design never sees another go.