Quote from Put_Your_Faith_In_The_Light >>Quote from DropDeadCynical >>Sorry but no. You are wrong, the game has become more expensive. You talking about duplicate protection but you are forgetting there is one more class we have now and there are more class legendaries. Please change the point of view.
The extra class makes no difference seeing as the overall size of the expansion has made the same (it has been 130-135 cards for every set since TGT). The number of legendaries has also not changed much. I mean it was lower back in 2015 or whatever, but back then we got so much less free stuff there is just no comparison.
If that's the best argument you've got that the game has got more expensive, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
So what is your argument that the game is the same or cheaper if it's not more expensive? Do you have any data that proves playtime and collection completion rates getting better?
"The number of legendaries has also not changed much." Really?
If I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel you are sitting at the bottom with a blindfold.
Watch the Hearthstone mathematics last video on youtube you deft and blind guy.
They are saying it is not getting more expensive, apart from the income of efficient aggro players and casual mode farmers (As a meme player your worst enemies btw ^^' ). Also, did you even read what Daulphas and/or BravoTeam wrote? If so, what is your take on their statements
= Infinite wall
0
This is the base argument when it comes to the rewards track:
"I don't get as much gold as I did before"
That isn't completely true, as others have pointed out - gold gain is different but you also get packs and a legendary through the rewards track.
Are you taking those into account as well when you say that the rewards track is worse?
3
Now that I have that out of the way I am F2P so I look at things from that lense-
Here is some math that I did before, prefacing this again with I am not arguing for or against blizzard I am just providing data!!!
(all the data is in the spoilers to save space all of it based on F2P)
First and foremost - check this article about the rewards track as quoted form Ben Lee:
https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-apologizes-for-hearthstone-rewards-mess-says-changes-are-coming/
Second here is a link to show the XP and time requirements to level upon the new rewards track (though as stated there are still unknown parts yet to come so this is only preliminary):
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2200-the-rewards-track-how-long-to-get-to-level-50-644000-experience-required-to-get-to-level-150
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
Here is some of my own Math presuming you ONLY go for level 50 -
It's a 4 month rotation for each Reward track and "SHOULD" be possible to hit level 50.
Levels 6/7/9/11/13/14/16/18/19/21/22/24 = 100gp (total 1200 gp)
Levels 16/28/29/31/32/33/34 = 150gp (total 1050 gp)
Levels 36/37/38/39/40/41/42/43/44 = 200gp (total 1800 gp)
Levels 45/46/47/48/49 = 300 gp (total 1500 gp)
Grand total of GP earned by lvl 50 = 5550 gp
Note: every level there after is 150 GP and still creates the same scaling xp need per additional level.
Even taking the lowest GP quest previously at 50gp we see this:
50gp * 7 = 350/week
350 * 16 = 5600 gp
So as it sits right now WITHOUT additional leveling or even the 10gp bonus per win we had before, the new ranked rewards are only 50 gp lower than before in a 4 month cycle.
However!!
If we take into account the wins per day for an additional 10 gp – and assuming you ONLY go for the single 10 gp reward of 3 wins. (meaning you only play till you win 3 games that day).
That is an additional 1220 gp in that 4 month time frame.
Now the gap between the old system and the new system a total of 1270gp.
That is the equivalent value of another 9 levels (level 59) on the new system
Or another 38,300 xp – Which is another 3 weeks of XP grinding as per outofcards calculations.
Now that I have laid out a BASIC idea of what the math looks like – you can decide if it’s adequate or not.
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
As was pointed out to me by another member average playtime is around 1hr and 14min - A player can still earn 14400 xp per week – and an additional one time 14800 xp boost.
At 12.59 weeks (round to 12 weeks considering the 14 minute addition) that leaves 4 weeks left to earn XP over and above the minimum requirement (lvl 50).
Which still leads to the same theory as before:
16 weeks with the old system and the LEAST amount of effort would earn you 6,870 GP
And at level 50 with the new system would earn you 5,550 gp (again the LEAST amount of effort)
In order to equal the amount of gold earned with the new system you will need to play to level 69
This is based on the 150 gp earned every level past 50. (6,870-5,550 = 1,320) (1,320/150=8.8)
The XP difference from 50 – 69 is 83,300. (279,500-196,200=83,300)
At the rate of 14400 xp per week that means it would take 6 weeks. (83,330/14400 = 5.78472)
We have a 4 week window from hitting level 50 again presuming you do so in 12 weeks.
If my numbers are still accurate enough then that means a 2 week difference or that of 300gp.
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
Since a number of people are bringing up the free packs and legendary as part of the Reward Track. Which I had not added in, as I was only looking at gold gain, gold gain which was used by many to increase overall ROI on playtime as well as to store up for purchasing more packs when the next expansion comes out.
Here is some additional math.
-
Packs are of course worth 100g
Dusting a pack of cards gets a minimum 40 (4 common + 1 rare)
Crafting cost for legendary is 1600 dust or 40 packs with the minimum amount of dust.
Which equates to 4000gp (using this math for the post as I work with worst case scenarios also why I stick with 50gp quests as a base)
Now, you are more likely to get a variable amount of dust over time when opening packs and from a multitude of sites it looks like the average is 100 dust from packs.
This now pushes the value of a legendary to only 16 packs or 1600gp
-
I would like to point out, that I am not here to say the Rewards Track is better or worse I am merely trying to provide context to what is gained from the New system Vs the Old system.
And math is the best tool (at this point) to showcase the differences.
As such I have to give credit to someone who did a hell of a lot more in-depth look into this than I did
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/245719-math-old-vs-new-reward-system-updated
-
TL;DR of the math I have seen so far only using 122 days played not taking into account amount of time 'supposedly' needed to reach certain benchmarks :
Minimum effort old system = 10,870gp (6,870gp through play + legendary from expansion release)
Minimum effort new system = 14,850 (5,550 + 13 packs + legendary from rewards track + legendary from expansion release)
Maximum effort old system = 22,300 (6,100gp from 50gp quests + 12,200 from 100gp win cap + legendary (ER))
Maximum effort new system = 24,300 (15,000 gp from leveling +13 packs + legendary (ER) + Legendary (RT))
(p.s. I have been doing this research in my spare time at work, so it's not as neat and detailed as in the link I provided above)
Make your own conclusions as to whether Blizzard is greedy and taking your money, the data is out there.
Again I am F2P - my math is based on F2P game play.
1
Dust costs haven't changed - The approximate value is 1:1 dust to gold.
Common (Disenchant + 5 / craft -40)
Rare (disenchant +20 / craft +100)
Epic (disenchant +100 / craft +400)
Legendary (disenchant +400 / craft - 1600)
A rather odd argument since this is the same F2P or P2P - neither has a bonus compared to the other.
Battle pass - a previous post of mine on this thread (has spoilers) goes into some depth about the new reward track. might be a good read for you.
WoW gold being used for packs - to be more precise it's the wow 'token' that is being used for packs. The token is $20 through the blizzard store.
$20 is the equivalent to 15 packs through the hearthstone store.
The wow 'token' can be exchanged for 9 packs in hearthstone.
So the exchange of the wow gold (token) is LESS than what the (token) itself costs. (side note a wow token on my server in wow goes for 113,532 gold - depending on how you play the game that 'could' take a while to earn in WoW)
Now the fact you can earn packs (and by proxy dust) without playing hearthstone AND without paying money it seems they have made it easier for people to get cards they want/need.
I do have to say it's was refreshing to see a new perspective on the topic, thank you.
1
Shadowrisen brings up a good point...
What determines if the game is "too expensive"?
The cost of a pack is roughly $1.50 or €1.25
Now bundles/promos/reward tracks are all "bonus" purchases and are not necessary to move forward in the game (as a P2P person). Sticking with "JUST" pack purchases I ask this:
With only a $100 spending limit (or €82.49) which equates to around 600 packs through the in game store
If you are making $1500 (or €1237.31) a month - and put $100 (or €82.49) of that into the game is that too expensive?
If you are making $15,000 (or €12373.12) a month - and put $100 (or €82.49) of that into the game is that too expensive?
6
Once again coming from an F2P point of view! I don't pay anything to play this game...
What I don't have:
a complete collection.
many of the sets complete.
more than 3-4k gold at the start of a new expansion.
a ton of dust to craft with.
What I do have is:
3 decks I have crafted to play wild
1 deck to play standard.
A free legendary every season (possibly 2 with the rewards track)
13+ free packs between expac release and rewards track
No duplicates on rares and legendaries
Do I deserve more because I don't put any money into the game? NO!!!
Do people who spend money deserve more because they pay? YES!!! (however, if it gives them a direct increase to win rate then it's not fair, due to the nature of hearthstones game style)
If you only get your cards from people handing them out for free and don't go out and pay for what you want/need - then it's your choice.
It's not the companies choice if people spend money. It's the companies right and need to charge $$ for their services.
Is the game getting more expensive? I don't know because I haven't done any math or data collection to find out.
But just from my basic understanding of the world - yea - it's getting more expensive inflation is a world wide phenomenon.
Also, it's common business practice for businesses to increase prices on new / updated products (look at cars).
Even MTG raised it's prices over time.
Blizzard hasn't done anything different or worse than any other business out there - in my opinion Gas(petrol) stations extort their customers the worst, Blizzard hasn't done anything like they do.
Does it make the game more expensive - yes
Does it make it harder for some players - yes
Does it make it illegal - no
Does it mean they lied to you - no
If you understand how to run a business then you should be able to apply that knowledge to what's happening here. (I ran a table top game store for 11 years, one of our major products was MTG, so I have a fair understanding of how this works.)
It sucks when the prices don't match expectations - but just like any other purchase you must decide upon in life - you can choose to pay or not. That simple.
3
It's so nice to see how these threads turn to personal attacks - I mean that just shows how mature and capable people are to educate and continue with civil conversations, I applaud all you personal attackers.../s
Now that I have that out of the way I am F2P so I look at things from that lense-
Here is some math that I did before, prefacing this again with I am not arguing for or against blizzard I am just providing data!!!
(all the data is in the spoilers to save space all of it based on F2P)
First and foremost - check this article about the rewards track as quoted form Ben Lee:
https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-apologizes-for-hearthstone-rewards-mess-says-changes-are-coming/
Second here is a link to show the XP and time requirements to level upon the new rewards track (though as stated there are still unknown parts yet to come so this is only preliminary):
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2200-the-rewards-track-how-long-to-get-to-level-50-644000-experience-required-to-get-to-level-150
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
Here is some of my own Math presuming you ONLY go for level 50 -
It's a 4 month rotation for each Reward track and "SHOULD" be possible to hit level 50.
Levels 6/7/9/11/13/14/16/18/19/21/22/24 = 100gp (total 1200 gp)
Levels 16/28/29/31/32/33/34 = 150gp (total 1050 gp)
Levels 36/37/38/39/40/41/42/43/44 = 200gp (total 1800 gp)
Levels 45/46/47/48/49 = 300 gp (total 1500 gp)
Grand total of GP earned by lvl 50 = 5550 gp
Note: every level there after is 150 GP and still creates the same scaling xp need per additional level.
Even taking the lowest GP quest previously at 50gp we see this:
50gp * 7 = 350/week
350 * 16 = 5600 gp
So as it sits right now WITHOUT additional leveling or even the 10gp bonus per win we had before, the new ranked rewards are only 50 gp lower than before in a 4 month cycle.
However!!
If we take into account the wins per day for an additional 10 gp – and assuming you ONLY go for the single 10 gp reward of 3 wins. (meaning you only play till you win 3 games that day).
That is an additional 1220 gp in that 4 month time frame.
Now the gap between the old system and the new system a total of 1270gp.
That is the equivalent value of another 9 levels (level 59) on the new system
Or another 38,300 xp – Which is another 3 weeks of XP grinding as per outofcards calculations.
Now that I have laid out a BASIC idea of what the math looks like – you can decide if it’s adequate or not.
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
As was pointed out to me by another member average playtime is around 1hr and 14min - A player can still earn 14400 xp per week – and an additional one time 14800 xp boost.
At 12.59 weeks (round to 12 weeks considering the 14 minute addition) that leaves 4 weeks left to earn XP over and above the minimum requirement (lvl 50).
Which still leads to the same theory as before:
16 weeks with the old system and the LEAST amount of effort would earn you 6,870 GP
And at level 50 with the new system would earn you 5,550 gp (again the LEAST amount of effort)
In order to equal the amount of gold earned with the new system you will need to play to level 69
This is based on the 150 gp earned every level past 50. (6,870-5,550 = 1,320) (1,320/150=8.8)
The XP difference from 50 – 69 is 83,300. (279,500-196,200=83,300)
At the rate of 14400 xp per week that means it would take 6 weeks. (83,330/14400 = 5.78472)
We have a 4 week window from hitting level 50 again presuming you do so in 12 weeks.
If my numbers are still accurate enough then that means a 2 week difference or that of 300gp.
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
Since a number of people are bringing up the free packs and legendary as part of the Reward Track. Which I had not added in, as I was only looking at gold gain, gold gain which was used by many to increase overall ROI on playtime as well as to store up for purchasing more packs when the next expansion comes out.
Here is some additional math.
-
Packs are of course worth 100g
Dusting a pack of cards gets a minimum 40 (4 common + 1 rare)
Crafting cost for legendary is 1600 dust or 40 packs with the minimum amount of dust.
Which equates to 4000gp (using this math for the post as I work with worst case scenarios also why I stick with 50gp quests as a base)
Now, you are more likely to get a variable amount of dust over time when opening packs and from a multitude of sites it looks like the average is 100 dust from packs.
This now pushes the value of a legendary to only 16 packs or 1600gp
-
I would like to point out, that I am not here to say the Rewards Track is better or worse I am merely trying to provide context to what is gained from the New system Vs the Old system.
And math is the best tool (at this point) to showcase the differences.
As such I have to give credit to someone who did a hell of a lot more in-depth look into this than I did
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/245719-math-old-vs-new-reward-system-updated
-
TL;DR of the math I have seen so far only using 122 days played not taking into account amount of time 'supposedly' needed to reach certain benchmarks :
Minimum effort old system = 10,870gp (6,870gp through play + legendary from expansion release)
Minimum effort new system = 14,850 (5,550 + 13 packs + legendary from rewards track + legendary from expansion release)
Maximum effort old system = 22,300 (6,100gp from 50gp quests + 12,200 from 100gp win cap + legendary (ER))
Maximum effort new system = 24,300 (15,000 gp from leveling +13 packs + legendary (ER) + Legendary (RT))
(p.s. I have been doing this research in my spare time at work, so it's not as neat and detailed as in the link I provided above)
Make your own conclusions as to whether Blizzard is greedy and taking your money, the data is out there.
Again I am F2P - my math is based on F2P game play.
1
TL;DR =
Too long
Didn't read
To ask someone to create a TL;DR post is to ask them to limit the articulation and specificity of their thoughts.
Which in turn can lead to misinterpretation and ambiguity.
Would much rather have a wall of text that explains things clearly than 2 sentences that explain little to nothing.
1
First, thank you for pointing out the issue – as my original post stated
||My math and numbers may be off I am open to corrections||
Thank you for the average play time, I wasn’t sure how/where to get that.
-
As for the 3 month vs 4 month aspect that still doesn’t detract from the weekly XP gains from quests and achievements as was listed, it just changes the amount of time left after reaching level 50.
A player can still earn 14400 xp per week – and an additional one time 14800 xp boost.
At 12.59 weeks (round to 12 weeks considering the 14 minute addition) that leaves 4 weeks left to earn XP over and above the minimum requirement (lvl 50).
Which still leads to the same theory as before:
16 weeks with the old system and the LEAST amount of effort would earn you 6,870 GP
And at level 50 with the new system would earn you 5,550 gp (again the LEAST amount of effort)
In order to equal the amount of gold earned with the new system you will need to play to level 69
This is based on the 150 gp earned every level past 50. (6,870-5,550 = 1,320) (1,320/150=8.8)
The XP difference from 50 – 69 is 83,300. (279,500-196,200=83,300)
At the rate of 14400 xp per week that means it would take 6 weeks. (83,330/14400 = 5.78472)
We have a 4 week window from hitting level 50 again presuming you do so in 12 weeks.
If my numbers are still accurate enough then that means a 2 week difference or that of 300gp.
Does this seem more appropriate?
0
Thanks for the input, that only adds to the theorizing I have there.
Again let each person be the judge, but as it sits now - the new Rewards Track looks to be a loss in comparison to the old system.
even for the P2W players.
-3
I posted this in another thread as well (mods if it's a prob feel free to remove the post)
First and foremost - all the complainers out there check this article about the rewards track as quoted form Ben Lee:
https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-apologizes-for-hearthstone-rewards-mess-says-changes-are-coming/
Second here is a link to show the XP and time requirements to level upon the new rewards track (though as stated there are still unknown parts yet to come so this is only preliminary):
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2200-the-rewards-track-how-long-to-get-to-level-50-644000-experience-required-to-get-to-level-150
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS
Here is some of my own Math presuming you ONLY go for level 50 -
It's a 4 month rotation for each Reward track and "SHOULD" be possible to hit level 50.
Levels 6/7/9/11/13/14/16/18/19/21/22/24 = 100gp (total 1200 gp)
Levels 16/28/29/31/32/33/34 = 150gp (total 1050 gp)
Levels 36/37/38/39/40/41/42/43/44 = 200gp (total 1800 gp)
Levels 45/46/47/48/49 = 300 gp (total 1500 gp)
Grand total of GP earned by lvl 50 = 5550 gp
Note: every level there after is 150 GP and still creates the same scaling xp need per additional level.
Even taking the lowest GP quest previously at 50gp we see this:
50gp * 7 = 350/week
350 * 16 = 5600 gp
So as it sits right now WITHOUT additional leveling or even the 10gp bonus per win we had before, the new ranked rewards are only 50 gp lower than before in a 4 month cycle.
However!!
If we take into account the wins per day for an additional 10 gp – and assuming you ONLY go for the single 10 gp reward of 3 wins. (meaning you only play till you win 3 games that day).
That is an additional 1220 gp in that 4 month time frame.
Now the gap between the old system and the new system a total of 1270gp.
That is the equivalent value of another 9 levels (level 59) on the new system
Or another 38,300 xp – Which is another 3 weeks of XP grinding as per outofcards calculations.
Now that I have laid out a BASIC idea of what the math looks like – you can decide if it’s adequate or not.
MY MATH AND NUMBERS MAY BE OFF I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS