Don't think it will have that big of an impact but Sword of Justice value is real. Not only will it make the first ooze 2-3, it will also make the copy 3-4 right?
They are both popular actually. Reynad posted a midrange hunter with Webspinners before creating the one with Secrets. No worries, I'll consider both of them as midrange hunter and provide a deck that counters both. (Like I did with classic - modern zoo)
Thanks for the comments! I'll cover Midrange Hunter (aka Sunshine - Kolento Hunter) soon, that seems to be one of the most popular decks these days, still experimenting different ideas against it.
Welcome! I'll share some counters to the popular decks here. These are just my opinions so feel free to share your thoughts so we can update them to be more accurate. This is mostly for tournament/friendly games where you know the deck you are playing against but it can be useful in ladder too. The goal is not only to get a great win percentage against the countered deck (~%60) but also to get a decent winrate against most matchups. (~%45)
Let's begin!
1. What counters zoo?
We are starting with probably the most popular deck out there. Let's look at the "classic" zoo deck Reynad popularized.
Classic zoo takes the board-control from turn 1 with small minions and tries to keep the board control through favorable trades. Unlike some beginners think, zoo is not an aggro deck. Unless there is a good reason for going face, zoo will always go for the favorable trade. If zoo gets too aggressive usually it loses board control and the game.
So, how do we stop an early game - board control deck? A logical way is to survive early game with cheap taunts/early game removal followed by AOE/Taunt in the midgame until zoo cards lose value in the lategame. These characteristics lead us to Watcher Druid. Below is a standard Watcher Druid deck with some anti-zoo cards added in there to make the matchup favorable.
Go to the deck page for explanation of each card. It is a solid midrange deck with excellent results (~70) against classic Zoo.
You can also use big AOE spells against Zoo and have decent results with Handlock, Paladin, Mage, Priest but the reason I chose this style is the "modern" - "Naxx" zoo. Now with Deathrattle based Zoo decks AOE is not nearly as strong, below is a typical Naxx Zoo.
With Eggs and Haunted Creepers in there suddenly spells like Hellfire is not as good as it used to be. On the other hand, as a Watcher Druid the second deck is much easier to beat simply because it is slower. This type of zoo has less of a chance winning before you get your taunts out and still has no chance of beating you after you get your taunts up. So, even though Naxx cards make it more resilient against AOE, it actually weakens the deck against Watcher Druid! Keep in mind this type of deck usually doesn't run divine shields so you might consider removing Blood Knight if this gets more popular.
That concludes "What counters zoo?", looking forward to your constructive criticism. Thank you for reading.
First of all, DO NOT DISENCHANT GOLD HARVEST GOLEM. You'll regret it later for sure.
Now, here is how I'd improve the deck without changing its midrange nature too much.
-1 Ice Lance -> Dead card in most cases. This is not very useful in the archetype you are using.
-1 Kobold Geomancer -> Its stats dont impress and the mage spells you use don't require much spell dmg especially after removing the Ice Lance so it makes sense to get rid of this as well.
-1 Wolfrider -> Not the best 3-drop in the game to say the least. It fits alright with your previous burst-aggro choices that I discarded but if you want to play midrange mage you'll have to discard these to get good results.
-1 Loot Hoarder -> With some of the lowest curve cards gone you don't need as much card draw. 2 Acolyte of Pains are giving plenty of card draw alongside with Drake.
Time to make the curve a bit higher.
+1 Water Elemental -> This card is pure value. 3-6 for 4 mana is pretty good on its own and its ability can make people (especially warriors) cry.
+1 Flamestrike -> "OP Mage Card", must have!
+2 Faerie Dragons -> Well, you need 2-drops after I removed two of them. Faerie Dragon is a solid 2-drop!
Finally, I'd probably remove a Shattered Sun Cleric or Dark Iron Dwarf for one Polymorph. You really need that one copy of poly against some matchups.
Interesting, I guess Earth Elemental also makes more sense with Ancestral Spirit. In my deck I probably wouldn't play it until I get Kel'Thuzad out successfully and after that it's just "winning" an already won game. I don't agree with all the hype Loatheb is getting, 5-5 is not THAT good and its battlecry is quite situational. Azure Drake is still the best 5-drop by far in my opinion, especially in a Shaman deck with so many spells. If I get to put another 5-drop in this deck I'm pretty sure it will be Sludge Belcher. Taunts are your friends!
Note: Removed 1 Flametounge Totem for Bloodmage Thalnos.
And as I said previously I think Sylvanas, Cairne are too slow for this deck to work. Earth Elemental could be a good idea but I hate its overload. I'd rather play Sludge Belcher as my 5-drop. For now I don't think I have room for that though.
Yup, it's not even "your turn" or "your opponent's turn", it's at the end of "every turn". It brings many crazy plays into table. He could kill my Sen'jin with 2 Kel'thuzads on the board and I'd get 2 Sen'jins at the end of his turn. This means I can actually attack with my new minions! On the other side, I could kill my own Sen'jin with a lightning bolt to get 2 new ones at the end of my turn!
I'm thinking I should also get Deathlord to buy more time in the earlygame and get those taunts rolling in the lategame. I don't think I care much about my opponent getting a couple of card draws. Especially against aggro decks. I think it could replace the flametounge totems or one of the Stormforged Axes. Thoughts?
Fair enough, that's why I went with a low curve instead of adding Cairne/Sylvanas etc, I don't think Zoo would be too troublesome with the traditional shaman removal and Feral Spirits but the aggro hunter can be problematic. Then again, shaman always has problems with Hunter. I could always switch Yetis with Sen'jins too!
Heh that would be fun but I don't want to get too many combo cards in a way it loses without the combo. I'm guessing it will win most of the time you pull off Kel'thuzad Reincarnate anyway.
The problem with sea giant is it is quite slow and has 0 effect on the board the turn it is played so it can't really be played in a midrange or aggro deck. On the other hand control decks don't play many minions so Sea Giant is not cost-effective for control. They'd rather have their trusty Boulderfist Ogre in many situations. So Sea Giant is an average but not good enough card for all archetypes. But it's good in arena!
I saw Cairne Sylvanas Leeroy and some other combos discussed with Reincarnate but how about this new legendary? Getting two Kel'Thuzads in turn 10 could be very strong, it's not that easy to remove either and has decent stats. (out of BGH range)
0
Don't think it will have that big of an impact but Sword of Justice value is real. Not only will it make the first ooze 2-3, it will also make the copy 3-4 right?
0
They are both popular actually. Reynad posted a midrange hunter with Webspinners before creating the one with Secrets. No worries, I'll consider both of them as midrange hunter and provide a deck that counters both. (Like I did with classic - modern zoo)
0
Thanks for the comments! I'll cover Midrange Hunter (aka Sunshine - Kolento Hunter) soon, that seems to be one of the most popular decks these days, still experimenting different ideas against it.
1
Welcome! I'll share some counters to the popular decks here. These are just my opinions so feel free to share your thoughts so we can update them to be more accurate. This is mostly for tournament/friendly games where you know the deck you are playing against but it can be useful in ladder too. The goal is not only to get a great win percentage against the countered deck (~%60) but also to get a decent winrate against most matchups. (~%45)
Let's begin!
1. What counters zoo?
We are starting with probably the most popular deck out there. Let's look at the "classic" zoo deck Reynad popularized.
Classic zoo takes the board-control from turn 1 with small minions and tries to keep the board control through favorable trades. Unlike some beginners think, zoo is not an aggro deck. Unless there is a good reason for going face, zoo will always go for the favorable trade. If zoo gets too aggressive usually it loses board control and the game.
So, how do we stop an early game - board control deck? A logical way is to survive early game with cheap taunts/early game removal followed by AOE/Taunt in the midgame until zoo cards lose value in the lategame. These characteristics lead us to Watcher Druid. Below is a standard Watcher Druid deck with some anti-zoo cards added in there to make the matchup favorable.
Go to the deck page for explanation of each card. It is a solid midrange deck with excellent results (~70) against classic Zoo.
You can also use big AOE spells against Zoo and have decent results with Handlock, Paladin, Mage, Priest but the reason I chose this style is the "modern" - "Naxx" zoo. Now with Deathrattle based Zoo decks AOE is not nearly as strong, below is a typical Naxx Zoo.
With Eggs and Haunted Creepers in there suddenly spells like Hellfire is not as good as it used to be. On the other hand, as a Watcher Druid the second deck is much easier to beat simply because it is slower. This type of zoo has less of a chance winning before you get your taunts out and still has no chance of beating you after you get your taunts up. So, even though Naxx cards make it more resilient against AOE, it actually weakens the deck against Watcher Druid! Keep in mind this type of deck usually doesn't run divine shields so you might consider removing Blood Knight if this gets more popular.
That concludes "What counters zoo?", looking forward to your constructive criticism. Thank you for reading.
0
I'd like to try some decks against the midrange/secret hunter.
Lauda #2885
0
Snake Trap x1.. snake value!
1
First of all, DO NOT DISENCHANT GOLD HARVEST GOLEM. You'll regret it later for sure.
Now, here is how I'd improve the deck without changing its midrange nature too much.
-1 Ice Lance -> Dead card in most cases. This is not very useful in the archetype you are using.
-1 Kobold Geomancer -> Its stats dont impress and the mage spells you use don't require much spell dmg especially after removing the Ice Lance so it makes sense to get rid of this as well.
-1 Wolfrider -> Not the best 3-drop in the game to say the least. It fits alright with your previous burst-aggro choices that I discarded but if you want to play midrange mage you'll have to discard these to get good results.
-1 Loot Hoarder -> With some of the lowest curve cards gone you don't need as much card draw. 2 Acolyte of Pains are giving plenty of card draw alongside with Drake.
Time to make the curve a bit higher.
+1 Water Elemental -> This card is pure value. 3-6 for 4 mana is pretty good on its own and its ability can make people (especially warriors) cry.
+1 Flamestrike -> "OP Mage Card", must have!
+2 Faerie Dragons -> Well, you need 2-drops after I removed two of them. Faerie Dragon is a solid 2-drop!
Finally, I'd probably remove a Shattered Sun Cleric or Dark Iron Dwarf for one Polymorph. You really need that one copy of poly against some matchups.
0
Interesting, I guess Earth Elemental also makes more sense with Ancestral Spirit. In my deck I probably wouldn't play it until I get Kel'Thuzad out successfully and after that it's just "winning" an already won game. I don't agree with all the hype Loatheb is getting, 5-5 is not THAT good and its battlecry is quite situational. Azure Drake is still the best 5-drop by far in my opinion, especially in a Shaman deck with so many spells. If I get to put another 5-drop in this deck I'm pretty sure it will be Sludge Belcher. Taunts are your friends!
Note: Removed 1 Flametounge Totem for Bloodmage Thalnos.
0
Personally I like Reincarnate over Ancestral Spirit because it is a more guaranteed way of getting 2 Kel'Thuzads. If you play Ancestral Spirit the same turn you play Kel'Thuzad he might get silenced. If you try playing Ancestral Spirit the next turn your minion might be killed. However, Ancestral Spirit is generally a better card than Reincarnate without the combo, So I guess both have their upsides.
And as I said previously I think Sylvanas, Cairne are too slow for this deck to work. Earth Elemental could be a good idea but I hate its overload. I'd rather play Sludge Belcher as my 5-drop. For now I don't think I have room for that though.
0
Yup, it's not even "your turn" or "your opponent's turn", it's at the end of "every turn". It brings many crazy plays into table. He could kill my Sen'jin with 2 Kel'thuzads on the board and I'd get 2 Sen'jins at the end of his turn. This means I can actually attack with my new minions! On the other side, I could kill my own Sen'jin with a lightning bolt to get 2 new ones at the end of my turn!
I'm thinking I should also get Deathlord to buy more time in the earlygame and get those taunts rolling in the lategame. I don't think I care much about my opponent getting a couple of card draws. Especially against aggro decks. I think it could replace the flametounge totems or one of the Stormforged Axes. Thoughts?
0
True, seems Sen'jin might be better than Yeti in earlygame and lategame. How about Harvest Golem vs. Unbound Elemental?
0
@Atlantios
Fair enough, that's why I went with a low curve instead of adding Cairne/Sylvanas etc, I don't think Zoo would be too troublesome with the traditional shaman removal and Feral Spirits but the aggro hunter can be problematic. Then again, shaman always has problems with Hunter. I could always switch Yetis with Sen'jins too!
0
Heh that would be fun but I don't want to get too many combo cards in a way it loses without the combo. I'm guessing it will win most of the time you pull off Kel'thuzad Reincarnate anyway.
0
The problem with sea giant is it is quite slow and has 0 effect on the board the turn it is played so it can't really be played in a midrange or aggro deck. On the other hand control decks don't play many minions so Sea Giant is not cost-effective for control. They'd rather have their trusty Boulderfist Ogre in many situations. So Sea Giant is an average but not good enough card for all archetypes. But it's good in arena!
0
I saw Cairne Sylvanas Leeroy and some other combos discussed with Reincarnate but how about this new legendary? Getting two Kel'Thuzads in turn 10 could be very strong, it's not that easy to remove either and has decent stats. (out of BGH range)