Hearthpwn

I mean, it's not just totem shaman that go thrashed. Any shaman that is not murloc just got 5 unusable class cards because of the stupid murloc archetype.

Definitely play  Primordial Protector in this deck, it's a big tempo swing and it draws a big thing

Warrior got a very good set, with lots of cards that are good independantly, and independant of the deck you're playing. Good card draw, which it seems some other classes aren't allowed to get (poor shaman and priest). It seems they got good enough draw and tools to bring back classic control warrior, however not a lot of big threats to boast.

Druid got some pretty insane cards if you're playing token other than that the taunt archetype might see play, maybe, as a strong counter to aggro.

Shaman got gutted i feel. Half of their cards are stricly for murloc shaman, the other cards, while they would want to setup for either elemental shaman, or spell damage shaman, still do not fix the total absence of card draw the class has.

Priest, althought it got some pretty good anti-aggro tools, is an enigma as to what their win condition is going to be against control. 

Dh seems to be a joke right now, basically after they created the class they supported the original archetypes of aggro, face attacks, token or big demon, but now that they have to come up with new stuff they have 0 idea what to do and it's showing.

Stealth rogue is hated because it's a full face deck that plays op cards like nitroboost poison (getting nerfed) and secret passage (would merit to be). Most of its cards can't be interacted with as they are either straight up face damage, stealth minions or card draw. So a match against face rogue relies entirely on wether you drew your taunts or heals. Also, because it finishes games so fast, teching is costly and not always effective, because you might not even draw your oozes/taunts/heals. 

Most people hated face hunter when it was a thing, because the deck is uninteractive at best and feels awful to play against. Stealth face rogue is basically the same, but with more card draw, so the people who play it feel even more snarky and, from experience, tend to emote a lot. They feel like they played well and barely scraped together a win when they got to draw 8 cards in a turn for 1 mana and unleashed all the skill of targeting the opponent's face with from-hand damage. 

A lot of people hate over-aggressive (and overtuned) aggro decks that win turn 6, meaning a lot of decks that dare run cards that cost more than 3 mana don't feel like they played the game. While the aggro rogue gets to see and use his entire deck in a game, his opponent generally barely sees a third of his, meaning you don't feel like you played your deck, and your tech is against those kind of decks are unreliable. 

So that's why people hate rogue. Because they like to play the game a little each match, which is not really what happens against stealth rogue

You're supposed to play an anti aggro deck with lots of board clears and healing, and then still lose because those you will run out of cards while they can refill their hands. As for what you're supposed to do in control matchups, in have 0 idea, they seem to not have wanted to give priest the slightest win condition apart from boring out their opponent

Pretty funny, Barak Kodobane was announced, and it seemed like a pretty good staple for hunter that definitely lacks card draw, and then you realise that after the expansion, only Petting Zoo and Deadly Shot will remain in the hunter pool as 3-mana spells x) Basically if you play a hunter that is not secret hunter, and you want tu use Barack well... gotta use those deadly shots! Those aren't strictly bad, but it feels quit awkward to be the only card you can make use of. 

In the dictionary at "trying really hard", you find this card

Quote from Durden >>

Quote from DNsingbanana >>

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Quote from PrincessKenny >>

If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".

 Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them 

 Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10. 

 Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases

 Yes, people are complaining that a single card makes you instawin a matchup. Controlock works as well as any other classes against aggro, if not better because you do not have to put any threat in your deck. You just have to put tickatus and y'shaarj, (and maybe rustwix if you're fancy, but honestly you don't need him) and then you can fill the rest of the deck with as many removal, healing and taunts you want. Controlock do not have to make any sacrifice except for a card slot to have an enormous advantage against other control matchups, in the most unhealthy, random and frustrating way. I miss Rin

Look controlock right now is in a bad spot in standard, as stated by a lot of people in this thread, while in wild is only played regurarly in renolocks that also get wrecked by mill rogues and a good chunk of aggro decks, with favorable matchups only against priests (and we are talking about a 55% winrate at best especially in razakus priest case) and otk\slow value decks. It's not devastating the meta its only keeping excessively greedy or slow control decks in check. If people can't play their homebrew control\value decks is not beacause of warlock but mostly beacause of face decks that SMORC the opponent to death by turn 5. If a control deck is meta it won't be destroyed by one really shitty matchup. The card itself fits in decks that are already limited by their own big cards, its not like every warlock is playing it. Its surely frustrating but its not this boogeyman that people are talking about here. Also remeber that the game is going to change a lot in a few weeks so we can't be sure if it is going to be in a tier 1, 2 or 3 deck, if it is going to shape the meta or disappear for some time. A nerf now will kill the card. For the " i miss Rin" it's true that it was slower and less frustrating, but hearthstone changed a lot from that time. Most classes now can produce value and cards out of thin air, and decks contain more random than ever. So if the It'S RaNdOm your issue at this point you'll be better off playing another game cause hearthstone seems to have taken the random direction and i doubt our whining will change it 

 I have never encountered a control warlock that did not play (and win because of) Tickatus, so I would challenge the assertion that "not every warlock is playing it". And it's not because the deck is not tier one that it's not cancer. The discussion is not about if the deck is balanced or not. It's about tickatus being one of the stupidest card ever printed. Warlock decks that run tickatus are not tier 1, ok. But as you said, it's because the meta is all aggro and midrange, so it's in the same spot as most other control decks for that matter. But it gets to be a good matchup against any control deck just because of 1 stupid card that doesn't leave any room for play or counterplay from the opponent. It's not "punishing greedy slow decks" when it can delete 10 cards off the deck by turn 10. If your definition of a "greedy slow" control deck is a deck that has not killed its opponent by turn 10, you have a pretty warped conception of what is greedy and slow. 

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Quote from PrincessKenny >>

If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".

 Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them 

 Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10. 

 Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases

 Yes, people are complaining that a single card makes you instawin a matchup. Controlock works as well as any other classes against aggro, if not better because you do not have to put any threat in your deck. You just have to put tickatus and y'shaarj, (and maybe rustwix if you're fancy, but honestly you don't need him) and then you can fill the rest of the deck with as many removal, healing and taunts you want. Controlock do not have to make any sacrifice except for a card slot to have an enormous advantage against other control matchups, in the most unhealthy, random and frustrating way. I miss Rin

Quote from Durden >>

Quote from PrincessKenny >>

If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".

 Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them 

 Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10. 

Quote from Durden >>

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It's a necessary evil. It's a class card that can be played in basically only big\control warlock decks that may or may not be there depending on how aggro the meta gets and destroys slow control decks (mostly priest) that have the wincon of clearing the board until the opponent ends his deck. This card alone is what can keep the meta from becoming the control vs control "loses whoever gets to fatigue first"meta that we had when Archivist Elysiana was added

Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks were allowed to exist, instead let's have any control vs control warlock be ruined by tickatus

 Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks had a win condition that doesn't revolve around let's go to fatigue for 40 min and actually had to do something atleast in control vs control matchups

 Your "do something" is kill the warlock before he can drop tickatus. Better to say "don't play a control deck" at this point. Again, Rin existed, to do exactly what you say tickatus is doing. Except Rin actually had a cost, both in mana and tempo. Also it's funny that you get riled up against control decks that do nothing, yet control warlock with tickatus is the very definition of doing nothing, just clearing the board and healing until you can play tickatus and win, not immediatly but by continuing to do nothing but defend until you opponent go to fatigue. 

Quote from Durden >>

It's a necessary evil. It's a class card that can be played in basically only big\control warlock decks that may or may not be there depending on how aggro the meta gets and destroys slow control decks (mostly priest) that have the wincon of clearing the board until the opponent ends his deck. This card alone is what can keep the meta from becoming the control vs control "loses whoever gets to fatigue first"meta that we had when Archivist Elysiana was added

Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks were allowed to exist, instead let's have any control vs control warlock be ruined by tickatus

If this sees play, it will be kind of like edwin where it can get really crazy with the right combination of cards. Although for this one it's spells only and you have other minions on the board

Cool card. Like original leeching poison, but more balanced. We'll have to see what other weapons stuff we get for rogue if some sort of midrange weapon rogue can see play

Quote from TheSpunYarn >>

Angry or not, it's awful and reprehensible to say things like that to people because you're mad about a card game.  Please get some perspective and take a break if Hearthstone is making you that angry.

Tickatus threads are becoming really grating to me, honestly.  Control decks having a win condition against other control decks is GOOD and NECESSARY for the game.  The fact that we've gone for like 3 years with control decks only winning through attrition is not a good thing, and has lead to a weird sense of entitlement in control players, who expect that every game the play lasts for 40 minutes and drags to 10 fatigue AT LEAST (I'm projecting here, this obviously isn't true).

Decks having bad/polarizing matchups is also a normal and healthy thing for card games.  Tickatus Warlock is good against Control decks.  Control decks are bad against Tickatus Warlock.  The Earth spins on its axis and plants photosynthesize to make oxygen.  There's apparently now a deck, which is a control deck, and has a favorable matchup against Tickatus Warlock.  You can choose to play that if you're desperately attached to playing Control Decks, or you can change pace entirely and play aggro (God forbid) to just bully greedy control/combo decks (which is something Tickatus was designed to do).

I understand the frustration of getting milled.  It's a bad feeling, and it's the reason that Pot of Desires is such a polarizing subject in YuGiOh to this day.  Magic players also hate being milled.  Legends of Runeterra recently has had very grindy control decks pop up recently (with a win condition other than attrition, please take notes Hearthstone) and hey, it has a hard matchup against the one champion that can mill their deck from X to 4.  Maybe Tick should have his stats toned down, but ultimately I think his effect is important for the game.

Yeah, control decks have no win condition appart from attrition, so let's make a win condition that is just playing a 7+ card, and then playing a well stated 6 mana card. Sure the game will be way more enjoyable than if you played against a deck where you won/lost into fatigue. 

People are not complaining that they are getting milled. They are complaining they are getting milled so easily and from so little  cost. There have been a warlock legendary designed to mill your opponent before, and to offer a win condition other than attrition in control mirrors. But this one couldn't be just slapped turn 8 to win the game. You actually had to use mana and lose tempo in order to win with it. A lot of it. It was free win only against the slowest control decks, who had only reactive cards. Here Tickatus is so ridiculously easy to activate that the only way to win is to just not play a control deck altogether. 

Also, i get that you want control decks to have a win condition other than attrition, blizzard said they were going to turn to that in the  future, but I don't see how those control decks that have a win condition can exist when Tickatus can mill said win condition so quickly and easily.