Hearthpwn

Meanwhile in reality - DH and Paladain run none of these fancy old gods and trash everyone.

By the time you get to play any of these 10 mana monstrosities you already won the game anyway. Sadly great design concepts get overshadowed by lame face mechanics as always...

 

Quote from CasmX >>

Ugh, does anyone else get tired when an argument or debate devolves to 'then just stop playing then.' because the person you're debating can't think of any legitimate counterargument? Can you not see why that would be devastating for the game if people did that and just up and quit? It's been covered in this thread. It's literally a worst case scenario that Blizzard wants to avoid. Blizzard wants to bring more people in, not scare them away. I'm surprised I have to even explain this. Probably a good thing you don't work for Blizzard's PR, lol. Their new logo would become, "Just stop playing". hehehe...okay, jokes aside, that would be one pretty big reason why I think Hearthstone should be different.

Edit: Sorry, my apologies. It's just a really really bad argument to suggest people stop playing the game. I shouldn't have made jokes at your expense. That wasn't very cool.

Clearly didn't get tired enough so you would spare me with your babble. This thread is not about the shortcomings of this game. Or wether or not 120$ is too much for what they offer. My question remains: what else in life can't you afford that is objectively overpriced? I gave a few examples. Do you also parade on their forums and claim how unfair it is you can't buy their luxury product? No, of course you don't. 

Besides, they have been running this business model for years. I am sure they ran the numbers and their predicted income was higher than their predicted churn. Problem with many people is they don't want to realize they wasted half their teenage years on a greedy company and now look for desperate justifications on how they are owed something... That's why i say just quit. Just like i am sure you quit many other things in life that you simply don't like anymore or that are too expensive.

I would agree with you that it's a bad argument if this was the first discussion about Blizzard, ever. But come on man. These outcries have been going on for years. Blizzard does the same thing over and over and over. Either accept youre paying premium prizes for an average product or move on. Same way i will move on from this discussion. I clearly made my point or i will fail to do so no matter what i write.

Quote from CasmX >>

Your point is not a good one. Saying the game is free is like saying World of Warcraft is free. You might only get the first 20 levels, but it's completely free right? Doesn't cost you a single cent to play. The fact that the other 98% of the game is inaccessible is irrelevant, right? But one big difference between HS and WoW is that WoW doesn't cost 30 bucks a month AND when you do pay their cheaper annual fee, you get access to all of it, not some arbitrary percentage of it.

You say people are upset that they have to grind or pay? That's only partially true. Nobody likes having to grind, yes, but what people are most upset about is that they either have to grind or overpay. Well, that and the fact Blizzard lied to their faces. The game is too just too expensive by literally every single metric you can use to measure. You're either grinding, thereby overpaying with time or you give them cash, thereby overpaying with money. If people are willing to put in 2 hours a day, they should get more out of it. If people are willing to drop 10 bucks a month, they should get WAY more out of it.

~$1 a day or 2 hours to grind is not perfectly reasonable, it's outrageous. Yes, people can spend an hour flipping burgers and make 8 bucks, but what I'm saying is, 8 bucks shouldn't get you 8 packs, it should get you probably double that or more. And if people spend that hour working towards in game rewards instead, they too should probably be getting about double than they currently are as well.

I don't think anyone is arguing that people playing for free should be getting as much out of HS as the people putting money into it. If there are, they're wrong. But the game is overpriced and twisting the reality around to make it sound like a pack of cards is equivalent to a cup of coffee from Starbucks is incredibly disingenuous and ignorant to the actual problem of the game. The actual reality is there are people that do in fact have the time to spend 2 hours playing a game and still do not have the disposable income to spend on it. People work 8, 10, 12+ hour days and still cannot afford to spend a dollar a day on Hearthstone. The fact that they manage to set aside 2 hours a day to play Hearthstone is irrelevant to the fact that they cannot afford to spend an extra 30 dollars a month, and I'd say those people have their priorities perfectly in line.

Stop trying to make it look like this game is affordable when it's blatantly overpriced and not being addressed effectively. On the contrary, people being lied to (though again, as I already stated, I think the continued outrage is unnecessary) and that is what people are getting fed up with it.

 You make it sound like someone is forcing you to do all this. The game is expensive - fine. Then don't pay and stop playing. The reason i gave the Starbucks analogy is because i think 7$ for a coffee is terribly overpriced -> so i simply don't go there. I also think it's ridicolous people spend 500$ for a Luis Viton bag -> so i don't buy it. 1200$ for a freaking phone? No, thanks apple. Simple as that. Can't afford it or think it's too much or whatever you want to call it -> simply stop playing. I agree with you 100% that it's a lot of money for some people. Ok, so you can't afford it - move on. There are so many things in life i can't afford. I don't yell at every single company out there selling stuff out of my price range. Why do you think when it comes to HS this is somehow supposed to be different? This is what the OP was talking about.

 

Quote from CasmX >>

Quote from Cataras >>

Quote from Plahtica >>

Quote from DropDeadCynical >>

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

it's funny that the only argument the shills seem to have left is 'stop talking' and 'go away'

 It's funny that the only argument the complainers seem to have is to call anyone who disagrees with them a shill.

 Dude, how can you say that 100$ every 3-4 months for 60% of the product is not too much? Why are you like this? 

Got a couple of questions for ya:

1. Does your momma buy you packs?

2. If not, do you have any compassion towards people that can't afford these insane and bloated prices?

3. Why defend a multi billion company that doesn't care about letting people have fun?

To conclude, due to the high price of the game, many people grind with aggro decks and high winrate decks since they can only craft a few decks, This in turn brings everyone's experience down. 

Stop being a brownnoser and get some heart dude.

 That's literally 1$ per day. You people make a fool out of yourself saying this is too much for a game apparently people are willing to grind 2+ hours a day for 100g. So you have 2 hours free to grind for that pack but no job that you could buy the same pack for 1.99$?

This is either the dumbest, most ignorant or biggest troll response I've seen yet. Or possibly a combination of all 3. A dollar a day is also the same as saying it's 30 dollars a month. That's over twice as expensive as World of Warcraft and it brings in 100's of millions of dollars annually. Hell, the biggest, most success streaming services are generally range from 7-10 dollars a month, and we're talking super greedy, multi-billion dollar companies here, like Disney. This is even greedier.

A $30 dollar annual fee for a video game is obscene and should only be necessary for a premium collection, like all gold cards, quality portraits, unique cosmetics, etc. Nobody should be expected to pay that just to be able to compete and have fun. And the fact that you can't seem to realize that some people simply cannot afford a $30 dollar subscription fee for Hearthstone makes you look like a fool that doesn't understand how the real world works. A whole lot of people simply don't have that kind of disposable income and their money has to be budgeted and put towards things that actually matter, like food and rent.

However, it's time to play Devil's Advocate here. I'm in the camp that isn't overly upset with the new rewards system. I personally think it's fine and I am F2P. The initial outrage was justified (Blizzard was bullshitting people, no question) but the continued outrage seems gratuitous. The change of removing old, useless expansion card packs and replacing them with 1350 gold resolved any issues I had with it. The hard truth pill is that right now, the rewards system actually is better than the old one. The arithmetic has been done and it checks out. Granted, it's not by much at all, but it is better. And that's without anything extra we'll be receiving between expansions, like bonus xp from special events. Once we have more details, we'll be able to calculate exactly how much better it is over the old system but currently with the information we currently have, it already is. So everything extra is just that, extra.

All that being said, it doesn't change the fact that this game is just too damned expensive. I personally don't believe F2P players should be handed everything on a silver platter, far from it in fact. I simply believe however that the people that do decide to spend a few bucks on the game should get far more out of it than they currently do. IMO, anyone that opts to spend 5-10 bucks a month on the game should have little to no problem having a complete collection. But right now, 10 bucks basically gets you 10 card packs, and that's laughable.

 Completely missed my point. The game itself is free. As in it doesn't cost you a single cent to play. Granted, there are some limitations but you can play it completely for free. If you choose to be upset about not having full access to everything without paying - fine...

And if you choose to pay it comes down to ~1$ a day which i think is perfectly reasonable for a game that otherwise i would have to grind for a minimum of 2 hours to complete the quests. And i think the people who are mostly upset about the less gold/hour are the ones who apparently have enough free time to grind a mobile game each day for hours but dont have 30$ in spare? I did not say it is cheap. My point is if people have that much free time each day to play a Gatcha mobile game but not even one dollar a day (which equals one big coffee a week from starbucks) - people should maybe get their priorities straight

Quote from Plahtica >>

1$ day to get half the product if even that much? what about full AAA games being 60$ and having a gameplya of 2 months enjoying every corner of an open world? But i see you're beyond reason.

I think we can all agree that something around 50$ per expansion for all cards would be a price that would encourage more people to buy preorders. 

 What are you talking about - half the product? You get a headstart with a bunch of cards and dust to create a few decks. Then you play with these decks over the next 3 months and earn more stuff so you can get more cards. It is written nowhere that you are entitled for all cards of every expansion.

And again you fail to address the question. How do you have time to grind 2+ hours a day for lousy 100 gold / 1 pack but can't do a job one evening a week to pay for a game you "love so so so so much"? One fancy coffee from starbucks a week is the same price as this game. You also rant in front of their doors how unfair their prices are? No - you just don't go to starbucks...

Quote from Plahtica >>

Quote from DropDeadCynical >>

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

it's funny that the only argument the shills seem to have left is 'stop talking' and 'go away'

 It's funny that the only argument the complainers seem to have is to call anyone who disagrees with them a shill.

 Dude, how can you say that 100$ every 3-4 months for 60% of the product is not too much? Why are you like this? 

Got a couple of questions for ya:

1. Does your momma buy you packs?

2. If not, do you have any compassion towards people that can't afford these insane and bloated prices?

3. Why defend a multi billion company that doesn't care about letting people have fun?

To conclude, due to the high price of the game, many people grind with aggro decks and high winrate decks since they can only craft a few decks, This in turn brings everyone's experience down. 

Stop being a brownnoser and get some heart dude.

 That's literally 1$ per day. You people make a fool out of yourself saying this is too much for a game apparently people are willing to grind 2+ hours a day for 100g. So you have 2 hours free to grind for that pack but no job that you could buy the same pack for 1.99$?

 

Quote from Horrorwolf >>

This is the most incorrect premise for a thread I have ever seen.  Shill alert. 

Hearthstone's number 1 problem?

Too goddamm expensive. Nuff' said. The value you could get from almost every other product for a fraction of what HS asks = exponentially more value.

2. Too much RNG and the idiotic 50% MMR.

3. Terrible game balance and power creep. This issue is not going anywhere and will only get far worse. If they had half a brain they would buff standard cards and provide more gold to keep ftp players. If they continue to run them away....this game is dead within a year.

4. New rewards system. This has pissed off more dedicated players than anything they have ever done and players are leaving by the masses. If not fixed and soon, HS will die even faster.

 100% sure the exact same thing was said 5 years ago and here we still are...

If people wanted value for money they would not be playing a CCG that is also a mobile game. Just face it. This game appeals to the addictive nature of humans. We want to collect shiny things. This is what people want. What else do they want? Complain that others have more shiny things than oneself. 

I'm not saying this game is perfect and that the F2P opinion doesn't count. But it's getting kind of silly how people think Blizzard should personally thank them for keeping the game alive. But then when someone spends money and literally keeps the game alive the same F2P mock them for using daddy's credit card.

Quote from Hooghout >>

 

Dear mr. Phylaroi, 

Here is a metaphor to chew on.

There is a man in a house in a land far far way. Living in his own universe he must leave that house, but is reluctant. His supporters think as he himself says he is being unjustifiably removed. The man is very irresponsible, embarks on one lawsuit after another, just to keep him in that house, lies all the time, fires anybody who doesn't do his bidding. He loves his supporters, his target audience. He doesn't care about The Others. Quintessential dictator-style.  Join or get lost. His supporters don't care. They think that he serves them well. Waving flags, standing ready to bully anyone thinking otherwise. The man polarized the land.

Blizzard employs the same tactics. They have a target audience too. Blizzard too doesn't care about The Others. As long as base notions of the target audience is served, they will remain in da house of making revenues. Although here in part the comparison goes wacky (the man will have to leave the house), Blizzard is here to stay with HS, serving those who don't care about skill, balance, fairness, diversity, steep RPS, polarization.... as long as the target audience keep buying packs.

And yes there's lip service to all I've just mentioned, but every expansion The Others will have to put up with the same mindlessness of the target audience. Waving their flags as base notions are met time and again.

So you see, keeping the power, staying in da house of money, the F2p are being seen as free riders, useful idiots, the glue making up the flag waving masses. 

The real issue here is not the F2P 'problem' but the denial of The Others. 

 

 Except you don't have to put up with it.

Except you don't have to put up with it.

I really wonder how some people think the world works. I didn't follow the whole debate about their new achievement system but apparently it offers less than promised. I personally think it gave me quite a nice boost as a returning player. The first 25 levels give you a bunch of gold and 2 free legendaries. That's certainly more than i got before. I get that this is inferior to the grindfest of winning merely 30 games per day before but come on. You got time to win (let alone play more than) 30 games a day? But you don't have time for a job to pay for the game? 120 Dollars for an expansion every 4 months equals roughly 1 dollar a day for a game you apparently spend hours to grind on. Get real people. You just want a free justification for your time-consuming hobby. Now you can't even justify it anymore because even on paper it doesn't make sense to spend that much time grinding a game without paying for the content. Feel free to quit. Reason why people complain so much is cause they "can't" quit...

This wasn't about beating rogue. It was about the fact that it's no joy watching cardback after cardback three times a turn for 20 turns straight

Unless you were in a coma how could you not figure out by now that you basically just need to spam brainless DH or brainless Hunter into legend?

If you could craft either Zephrys the Great or Frizz Kindleroost - which one would you say is more beneficial for this deck?

It's really fun although i have to say i am extremely unlucky with hitting either maly or alex with my hero power. Also get ready to be tilted to the max when you draw 25+ cards each game but can never get swamp ooze the right time :P

As much as i enjoy watching the back of the cards when mages or rogues discover five cards each turn it would be fun if i could at least spam an appropriate emote to entertain myself.

I don't know really - i am not saying the deck is bad not at all - i really enjoy playing it and want it to work.

And although i am sure i don't play this deck 100% perfect i feel like i have a hard time against most of other players. Yes some of the wins are almost guaranteed but they still feel like you have to put in a ridicolous amount of effort. Noone ever surrenders even though you clearly shuffled 124813598 primes into your deck so you still have to exhaust all their removal. On the other hand DH or Hunter beat you down in 5 minutes (and that is frustrating as these are like half the matchups). Sure if i draw all my removal i can win but then my own win condition basically doesn't even matter anymore. I could play any 2 big minions.

I also struggle tremendously with comeback turns against these classes. Raging Felscreamer into Priestess of Fury is just devastating as this deck rarely has anything on the board this early. And from that point on you are always one step behind with your clears. Same with Hunter. If he drops a Dragonbane early and i dont have Dark Skies, there is basically no real way of killing it.

Back in the days whith the original handlocks you could get away with tapping and doing nothing the first few turns. Now every class has a way to chip in 2-3 dmg per turn while developing. Against hunter that's a minimum of 4 dmg a turn if both players just hero power and against DH and mage it's 3 - not accounting for all the other ridicolous ways they do dmg. 

And i am not critisizing the deck. These are just things i noticed and don't have a solution to.