Hearthpwn

Freeze Shaman in the days of KFT sucked. I did better with it than most people and that wasn't very good.

Freeze Shaman in Alterac Valley days had some success until it forced some nerfs of Snowfall Guardian, but it never used some cool freeze cards like Cheaty Snowbold or Bearon Gla'shir.

Now that we have access to both at once, what can you Shaman masters do with the power of frost?!?

What cards (in Standard) seem more powerful than they should be, for how little use they are seeing in the Meta?

I don't know the current meta well enough to have authoritative answers (just returned to the game).

How's this doing now that Needle got buffed? And how necessary is Valishj?

I've been having moderate success (23-19) with the last few versions of the deck I've been playing, with some unexpected inclusions like SI:7 Skulker haha. I'm sure I'll keep refining, but here's what I've got currently:

Still sad to be abusing the Snowfall Guardian / Brilliant Macaw combo, and to have cut so many fun legendaries, but most of them were just too situational.

Quote from Dofeedtheemu >>

I was thinking today a good thing about Azsharan Scroll is that it puts the sunken scroll on the bottom of the deck. I used to always dredge it up quickly, but it's a value card, it's best at the bottom of the deck when you're running out of steam, and you dredge the tempo cards around it unless you're really gassing. 

 Good call, is the Scroll itself still worth playing then?

Experimentation results so far:

• Azsharan Scroll looks awesome on paper, considering how often you can Dredge up the Sunken Scroll easily, but all the randomly generated spells are highly situational depending on matchup, so I'm not sure how in love with the Scrolls I actually am.
• You wouldn't think Lightning Bolt would be a card that can still surprise me, but it's the #1 card in the deck in my stats. Wow.
• Scalding Geyser seems great in general.
• Bolner Hammerbeak seems great in this deck. Getting one use of him often feels worthy of a 2-mana investment, and if they ever let him stick you can really punish them.
• Frostbite is kind of low in my stats, but I still think it's ok.
• Brilliant Macaw is low in my stats, and I'm not surprised; there have been a lot of games where it just sat in hand, waiting for an opportune moment that never came. I might have to keep it if I add Snowfall Guardians though.
• Radiance of Azshara has felt underwhelming but is the #2 card by the stats.
• Lifedrinker has been middle-of-the-road, MVP in some games and very meh in others. But I'll probably keep it since it's kind of one of the cards I'm trying to optimize.
• Queen Azshara seems great; the main idea of this deck is to go for her Weapon option, but in a pinch sometimes another option is best. #4 card by the stats.
• Krag'wa, the Frog has been meh most games. I just don't need the extra spells as often as I thought I would. And 6 mana is a lot for this deck.
• Bru'kan of the Elements has been pretty good I think.
• Maelstrom Portal was NOT cutting it in this meta, where 1 HP is not a common breakpoint and the deck doesn't have lots of Spell Damage, so I replaced it with Lightning Storms. But Lightning Storm is the worst card by the stats. So I'm definitely considering other options. I'm thinking some combination of Perpetual Flame and Don't Stand in the Fire! might be better, especially since Radiance turns Perpetual into a 5-damage AoE.
• Sleetbreaker is solid as always.
• I haven't tried Brann Bronzebeard, Wildpaw Cavern, Coral Keeper, or Baba Naga yet.
• Bloodmage Thalnos is meh by the stats, but I find myself often wishing I had him when I don't draw him ...
• Crushclaw Enforcers have been surprisingly great. Activating their battlecry has been easy, and the tempo of a 3/4 without reducing hand size has felt relevant.
• Zola the Gorgon felt terrible. It's slow enough that it's pretty much a dead card except to proc Bolner.
• Multicaster felt terrible and was bad by the stats, and most games the deck doesn't run out of cards anyway.
• School Teacher is an excellent card, if you haven't tried it yet, and should definitely stay in the deck. If you manage to save it and Bolner until late game, Bolner + Teacher + lots of Nagalings is a pretty broken combo. I haven't noticed any spells (e.g. Bioluminescence) feeling like they're offered consistently though, so I don't want to base my strategy around hoping for that. Besides, my opponents seldom let me build enough of a board that Biolum would be great.
• Azure Drake has been fairly bad by the stats, and should probably go in favor of something less slow.
• I've only seen one Smothering Starfish in all my games, and I've gotten beaten by wide boards a number of times, so I'm considering adding Snowfall Guardians even though I hate the card with a passion.

Quote from ragnarosismyingameusername >>

not every card in the deck has to have synergy, sometimes you just have to stay alive. all of these cards fill that gap in the deck

 My bad, I thought you were looking for feedback/suggestions. And what to cut is usually the hardest part of deckbuilding for me.

 Quest Hunter was already very strong and it's getting new support and losing very little. It just didn't dominate the Theorycrafting streams because it doesn't have 10 cards from the new set in it.

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Hunter and Rogue are both going to be awful. Hunter has the ability to entirely ignore your board and go face, face, face with multiple damage spells. It's so stupid.

You need to kill Rogue by turn 8 or else the new pirate will ruin your game plan. The new weapon that is basically 3 mana for a 4/3 is ridiculous.

 Agreed, except that there's plenty of ways for lots of classes to ruin your game plan if you let them survive to turn 8, so I don't think Hooktusk will make a big difference.

Dang, now I want to fit Auctionhouse Gavel into my NagaBurn shaman. I had forgotten it wasn't rotating.

If I were refining your deck, the cards I'd question including the most are Okani, Slimescale Diver, and maybe Taelan. Okani is just pretty weak and the other two don't have much synergy.

Quote from Dofeedtheemu >>

I didn't think about Sunken Starfish countering Snowfall Guardian, this might be a pretty rough expansion for Shaman if that card becomes meta. I think Snowfall is boring too, but it's kinda carrying the class only Quest doesn't run it right now. Quest double casting  Aszshara's treasures seems like fun tho. 

 I don't know if there's enough Overload synergy to make Questline Shaman good -- and I'm somewhat reluctant to craft the Questline.

Quote from Dofeedtheemu>>

Sleetbreaker is in every Shaman deck for a reason. It is a busted card. 

Probably good call.

Coral Keeper is probably busted. A 5 mana stat dump with no effects doesn't seem broken to me, but I'm probably wrong.

The more I think about it, I don't think you are wrong. Board flood only matters in modern HS if you can reload it over and over until opponent runs out of removal, and/or you have Bloodlust-like cards to capitalize. I don't think the board flood matters in this deck. Especially since I don't think I'll be able to play all three Schools consistently.

Snowfall is the most broken thing Shaman can do, if the class is good this is why, all the burn decks run it. Run it. 
but if you are commited to cutting it and going all in Azshara treasures then for sure
Zola/Crushcraw/Brann if you're cutting Snowfall and making Azshara treasure you're main broken thing win condition go all in. 

Maelstrom Portal is meta dependent. If people are playing a lot of small minions run it, prolly with some spell dmg, if not don't. 

Bloodmage Thalnos and Azure Drake are interesting additions. Burn decks need a TON of card draw to be fast and consistent enough to be viable, spell dmg is also pretty important to "get there." I think both of these are viable but not for sure includes becuase they are a little under the current power level. 

Mutlicaster or Primordial you need a draw engine, you pretty much have to choose one of these two cards 

I don't think Primordial is a good card if it only draws 1. And there's no way I'm focusing this deck on Nature spells only.

Multicaster is more appealing, but on the other hand, you're telling me to cut Don't Stand and possibly Maelstrom, so I don't know how consistently I'll be able to load up the Multicaster. I don't think it's good if I'm only running 2 Fire and 2 Nature.

Wildpaw Cavern might not be good now that you can't bloom coin it on turn 1, but if there is a strong weapon deck you should run it anyway. 

Don't Stand in the Fire isn't very good, and it's a control card, you don't run that for sure. 

Baba Naga is probably bad, 2 and 3 mana cards with 3 dmg battlecries were pretty good, but I think 4 is pushing it. 

I think you're right, at least since repeating this Battlecry might target something friendly.

I think School Teacher is very interesting in Shaman becuase Shaman has good 3 and under spells, but I don't think it's a burn deck card, might be worth a try 

Lifedrinker should be the fist cut if you feel like you need to cut something later, that card only saw play in Shudderwock becuase you could repeat it infinitely.

 Eh, I had some good success back in the day with Lifedrinker in Shaman even without my Shudderwock doing the full infinite combo.

Quote from Anomaly98 >>

Omitting Snowfall Guardian is a nogo. The card is too strong to not use especially factoring in the push from blizzard into board based strategies.

Must have! 

 Eh, I don't like the card; call it a sense of honor since the card is so uninteractive. Plus, I expect Starfish to make its way into the meta to counter Snowfall Guardian specifically.

I enjoy the game more now that I play some, but less than most of the past 8 years. I don't care whether I'm doing all my dailies and weeklies. I just play when I'm in the mood. I don't know if this strategy is viable long term, though, since I don't want to pay real $ anymore for boosting my collection, and playing less means I get less gold than before. My Wild collection of legendaries is gradually being sacrificed to get dust to bolster my Standard collection.

I'm also picky about what decks I play. Some just aren't fun for me regardless of whether they're meta or not, and then I automatically lose interest if a deck archetype is more than about 7% of the ladder. Deckbuilding strategy has always been what interests me the most about HS, but it has to be off-meta deckbuilding or at least inserting a creative package of cards into a deck so I can feel like I'm contributing something. These days, you could call me a casual FunkiMonki disciple.

I go back and forth on whether I care about climbing to high ranks, aka how high a winrate my off-meta decks need to have to be fun for me. Sometimes, I've been very determined to reach Legend. Other times, I've had a lot of fun just trying to make deck concepts finally "work" for hundreds of games, getting a 48% winrate in the process.

EDIT: Also, Ladder is where it's at for me. Casual gets boring pretty quickly since I don't know if I'm really facing the meta. I don't really play Duels or (anymore) Arena or Mercenaries, and I can't remember the last time I actually did a Tavern Brawl, and BGs make me say "eww". Sometimes I venture into Classic or Wild Ladder a bit though.

Good to get another opinion data point on Cavern without Bloom. My gut tends to agree with you, but other friends have told me I'd be crazy to cut the card even without the possibility of ramping it out early.

I want to play a Burn Shaman with a Naga package in the new expansion. I'm reasonably sure about 17 cards I want:

• Azsharan Scroll x2
• Lightning Bolt x2
• Scalding Geyser x2
• Bolner Hammerbeak
• Frostbite x2
• Brilliant Macaw x2
• Radiance of Azshara
• Lifedrinker x2
• Queen Azshara
• Krag'wa, the Frog
• Bru'kan of the Elements

The other 13 cards, I think I'll select from the following menu of 22:

• Maelstrom Portal x2 (largely for more Nature for Multicaster)
• Sleetbreaker x2 (largely for more Frost for Multicaster)
• Wildpaw Cavern x2 (no synergy, possibly just busted as a standalone card)
• Coral Keeper x2
• Don't Stand in the Fire! x1 (largely for more Fire for Multicaster)
• Bloodmage Thalnos
• Brann Bronzebeard
• Crushclaw Enforcer x2
• Zola the Gorgon
• Baba Naga x2
• Multicaster x2
• School Teacher x2
• Azure Drake x2

How much draw do I really need? How much Battlecry synergy? etc. Thanks for suggestions!