Hearthpwn

Depends on the matchup. Most of the time, yes, you're trying to get a 1-drop into Hand of A'dal. You never mulligan away Attendant and First Day of School. In matchups where early board control is super important (usually aggro decks) you throw away Hand of A'dal if you don't have a 1-drop to put it on (Attendant and First Day are the ones my version runs, I don't know if you've slotted in an extra one). I like to keep Consecration against classes that can run hyper-aggro or token BS, like Demon Hunter, Rogue or Druid - it usually buys you enough time to start stalling with taunts and healing yourself with Libram of Hope. I've not got that much experience facing Warlock since I've not played that much in this expansion, but my guess would be you want to SMOrc them down with early and midgame pressure (that's sort of been the traditional way to get them), so I think I'd keep Goody Two-Shields and probably the pure 4/2 equip a Truesilver guy if I have anything decent to do before turn 4. I'm surprised Paladin is doing as well as the stats say that it is against Control Warlock, though  (51.8% on HSReplay - good, though not amazing)- I would think Cascading Disaster hard counters Libram and Pure Paladin's gameplan of making one or two big guys at a time to beat them up.

Most of these are for cards that are going to wild. The changes are going live before Barrens comes out, though, so there's going to be a brief period where these cards are unnerfed and standard-playable.

Quote from x0chipilli >>

This is meant to be lighthearted, not a way to get a jab in at someone or anything like that. I’m curious to hear some self-inflicted hearthstone horror stories as there’s not much going on in HS yet. Perhaps we can help someone avoid repeating our mistakes.

I’ll start: Almost a year ago now, I was looking through my collection to see what cards I was missing while enjoying another beer. It was late and I was too tired to play anymore, so I decided to look at pretty card art by crafting some of them golden to hear their voice lines and check out the animations, and then undoing to get my dust back. I ended up crafting and accidentally clicking away from this magnificent card and he’ll likely stay there to embarrass me forever:

Lesson learned: Come to Hearthpwn or go to Youtube if you want to see a card’s animations, and don’t drink and craft my friends.Plus you can always get disconnected so it’s really not worth the risk!

 I've had a golden Lorewalker Cho sitting in my collection since somewhere around TGT or BRM for this very reason. I've considered disenchanting him to at least get 1.6k dust back, but I feel like I need to keep him around as a reminder of my mistakes.

I also drunkenly convinced myself that Dragonrider Talritha Paladin was going to be completely broken about a week after Descent of Dragons released and disenchanted a Dragonbane to craft her, along with a gold Stormhammer. Lesson learned: Don't drink and deckbuild, people.

I really don't think the problem is with Discover effects or even random value generation as a whole. The problem comes from two things: These effects being too strong, and there being too many of them. The latter is obvious: Having too much random generation means more games are going to come down to someone getting the perfect card, and neither party is going to be that happy with it, since the win feels hollow. On the other hand, I really do think Discover in particular has been massively undervalued in recent years. You compare Wand Thief to Babbling Book and the difference is staggering. For the same mana cost you're getting an extra point of Health, and you're getting to Discover the spell instead of having it randomly added to your hand, vastly increasing the power level of whatever you get. Yes, the Combo is harder to activate, but on a 1 mana card that's basically trivial.

The difference is the most stark when you look at the adventure where Discover was introduced, League of Explorers. Gorillabot A-3 was a 4 mana 3/4 with a conditional Discover. Tomb Spider was a 4 mana 3/3 with a Discover. Yes, these are probably the weakest of the original Discover cards (and didn't see play outside of memes), but I think it's really showing of how much better Discover cards have gotten. Jeweled Scarab actually made a few lists back in the day, but nowadays if you want to get value there's no reason to give up on tempo by playing a 2 mana 1/1 anymore. The card looks pathetic not just because of power creep, but because Discover no longer is seen as a premium effect.

That I think is the core of the issue. Discover was designed as a midrange/control mechanic. Discovering things was meant to give you value and flexibility at the cost of a bit of tempo. Nowadays, Discover effects fit in every single sort of deck - aggro Mages fit Magic Trick in, Highlander Hunter runs Mystery Winner and Rinling's Rifle, etc etc - so of course way more games come down to lucky random generation. 

My guess is they plan to print cards that would enable a Sorcerer's Apprentice + Antonidas OTK type combo over the course of the next two years, and don't want Antonidas in Core for that time, to prevent Mage from basically having the same OTK deck they've played on and off since the start of Hearthstone. He's the sort of card I'd see bouncing in and out of the Core Set depending on what else they're printing for Standard.

Taz'dingo! Yeh-ehhhs!

Even though I'm a cynical person who complains a lot I tend to be on the positive side on this forum, mostly because a lot of the complaining people do tends to be pretty out of whack with reality, so for once I'll do what I actually created this account for: Launch petty complaints!

As someone who doesn't care about WoW and has no interest in its lore, the theme of the next expansion (and from the looks of it, the whole year!) seems really lame. I played WoW because I got into Hearthstone and wanted to see some of the characters from the cards, and Barrens was a really boring zone. I also thought the game was mostly really dull fantasy stuff that I didn't care much for, and I was glad Hearthstone was putting a much goofier spin on it. This just seems like nostalgia-pandering nonsense, and the Mankrik card really annoyed me, since it just reeks "Yes, we're cool kids too, we get your memes" energy. Hearthstone is at its best when it's doing really creative and silly stuff (One Night in Karazhan was a crappy expansion, but the theming was great, ditto with Gadgetzan and the entirety of Year of the Dragon). I was happy with the removal of the "Heroes of Warcraft" subtitle since it seemed to imply that the game was going full wacky, but apparently it's still anchored to WoW enough to spend a year just doing "Hey remember the Horde, hey remember the Alliance, hey remember them fighting?". The cards may be great (in fact, I find the more I like the theming of an expansion the less I like the actual meta that emerges, weirdly), but I predict I'll feel nothing about the theme of the Year of the Gryphon.

Spell schools look cool, but I'm afraid that they're going to not end up mattering. You need a certain amount of support to build cards around them, and I don't know that they can print enough support for every school without every card being spell related in some way. There's a good way to handle this, but seeing as two out of the three last expansions were bad (Scholomance was the best the game's been in years, though) I'm not sure Team 5's got that great of a grasp on the game at the moment.

Ranked spells feel like they're going to mostly be a failure to me. I love this concept, anything that pushes the game towards the late game is great, but these cards are either going to be playable early game and as such played by fast decks anyway, or they're going to only be playable after 5 or 10 mana (like Imp Swarm), and then they're basically going to be slightly less bad Omega cards. Hearthstone has a history of mechanics that try to push you to play cards late or slowly (Inspire, Omega, Corrupt), and they've usually been flops except for one or at a stretch two cards of each type.

This thread is amazing. I don't know that I've ever seen an argument where both sides are quite this wrong.

Ysera doesn't need a dust refund. Yes, the card is getting worse, but that's only because you're getting a better version of the card for free, alongside the entire core set. Old Ysera is still a Wild playable card, you don't get refunds for cards rotating.

Yes, Ysera has gotten nerfed. The card is worse now. That is what a nerf is. The precedent is to get dust from nerfs, but that doesn't apply here for reasons said above. If the Animal Companions were changed and they now had the same stats as Demon Companions, Animal Companion would unambiguously be being nerfed. If there was a Bear Tamer card with Battlecry: Summon an Ironfur Grizzly and Ironfur Grizzly was changed to be a 0 mana 0/3 Beast with Taunt for whatever reason, Bear Tamer would've gotten nerfed. Stop being deliberately dense. You don't put Ysera in your deck as a 4/12 Dragon, you put it in your deck as a 4/12 Dragon that puts a powerful card in your hand, and the cards she puts in your hand are now worse. 

Level 72 with no pass. I didn't even play for over a month because I don't find the meta any fun at all. I bought the miniset with gold, and I've still got 2.9k in the bank, with another month to grind before the expansion, where I usually come into each expansion with about 2.5k gold. I'll take this thread as my opportunity to drop an "I told you so" on all the Reward Track complainers. If Darkmoon Faire had had a fun meta I wanted to play I think I might have saved enough gold to not even feel the need to preorder the next expansion.

I've got a massive wishlist! There's so many cards that I miss dearly. A lot of these aren't even necessarily great for the meta, but the nostalgia is strong and as of the moment I would love to play with them again. It's a shame I find Wild generally unenjoyable (and in a lot of cases these cards don't even see play in the game mode anymore as far as I can tell).

Stonehill Defender just always felt great. He's a mediocre body that generates a fair one, but the flexibility made him often skill-testing and very satisfying to use. The voiceline is iconic, too, I love this guy.

Primordial Drake, sort of related to Stonehill Defender, was just a fantastic control tool. I have many fond memories of barely surviving to turn 7 against aggro and dropping the Drake with a coin, wiping their board, and flipping the whole game around. It's just satisfying, and I never felt frustrated playing against it, even as more aggressive decks.

Shaky Zipgunner and Dispatch Kodo never saw serious play, but I really enjoyed playing my meme handbuff Hunter to Rank 5 (no way that deck got to legend before the ladder revamp) and doing with stuff to make the Kodo hit for massive damage.

Maybe I just didn't play enough during his reign of terror, but Deathstalker Rexxar was such a cool card that I would love for it to be in the meta for another year.

Ice Block would almost certainly get really old a week in, but the nostalgia goggles are strong on this card and I miss it because I've not seen one outside of Battlegrounds for ages.

Kazakus. I don't want highlander support to be in the core set, because I think it's a mechanic that's at its best when it rotates in and gets less fun the longer it's in (so I want it as expansion cards), but if it is I hope it's Kazakus. Maybe I love the original Reno more, but Kazakus was one of the smartest, funnest implementations of the mechanic ever. Just such a classic good-feeling card.

Frost Lich Jaina is a card people got really sick of by the time it left the meta, but I'm the sort of player who loves the insanely long games it leads to, plus it's one of the most skill-testing cards ever in the game. Whether I was playing as this card or against this card I never felt bad against it. That's just on a personal level though.

Righteous Protector I mainly play Paladin, so I'm going to miss a lot of Paladin card, but this is one I always thought felt perfect. Strong enough to be a powerful tool for the class, a great control card, perfect flavor, and never felt too bad to play against. It is definitely a little too strong to be a permanent fixture, but I just miss this lil' guy. Looking through the collection if I mention every Paladin card I miss I'll be here all day, so I'll just list them (most of them are here because I'm a Midrange Paladin player who liked having strong tools in the class):

Flash of Light, Hydrologist, Crystalsmith Kangor, Shielded Minibot (I miss this guy sooo much!), Muster for Battle+Quartermaster (the defining combo of the first deck I got to Legend with), Keeper of Uldaman, Spikeridged Steed (my favorite buff card ever?), Sunkeeper Tarim, Val'anyr and Ragnaros, Lightlord

Even as a non-Rogue player I have fondness for Vilespine Slayer for whatever reason, and Undercity Huckster feels to me like such a defining Rogue card I'm still regularly surprised to remember that it wasn't in Vanilla, it came out all the way in WotOG. To this day, every time I make some dumb Rogue deck (since I dislike playing the class regularly) I try to put the Huckster in there. 

I do play a decent amount of Shaman, but Menacing Nimbus has a similar feeling where it feels so core to the class' identity that I forget it's not evergreen. Also, a similar thing with Hot Spring Guardian and Jinyu Waterspeaker, they're so elegant and they feel so natural for Shaman to have. Bog Slosher wasn't used that much, but it's enough fun I want it back in. Walking Fountain is more of a "I miss the swing turns I used to have with this +attack buffs vs aggro", but I do miss it.

People have already brought up Defile as a perfect Core Set card for Warlock, but man I also miss Darkbomb. It's so vanilla but was shockingly fun to use despite of it. I love Zoo, so basically any small minion that went in that deck and wasn't ridiculously broken I'd like to see (special props to my boys Possessed Villager and Dark Peddler though), but I also big warlock, so Mal'Ganis and Voidlord are also my boys. Rin, the First Disciple was fantastic and felt more like an actual quest than any quest card ever did.  I'm also hoping for a reworked Lord Jaraxxus in the core set, that makes him playable again. He was such a core part of Warlock's identity and remains distinct from heroes and super cool.

Eternium Rover felt so amazing to play against Aggro it led me to climb to Legend with Mecha'thun Warrior when that deck wasn't even good, and I'd love it as an evergreen card. Weirdly despite Warrior being my third most played class after Paladin and Warlock it's the only card I miss, mostly because the slow Warrior deck I care about are defined by cards that are in the current core set plus whatever AoE is around, and those AoEs don't tend to feel all that different from one expansion to the next. I guess Sleep with the Fishes was unique, but I didn't dig it much.

Zombie Chow is no longer good enough, but man do I miss the guy. Possibly the most iconic control card in the Naxx and GvG era, which is when I played the game the most. The counterpart was Haunted Creeper, which despite how strong of an aggro card it was I never felt frustrated at playing against in an era where I never played aggro. 

All of the original League of Explorers legendaries are among my favorites, but Brann Bronzebeard is by far the one I wish came back the most. Such a fun and versatile card, did good in everything from aggro to control to combo, and never felt overpowered. Just a stellar card design in terms of balance.

Spiritsinger Umbra was a really fun combo enabler in a lot of decks, and let slower decks do some really degenerate things. I had fun with this card.

Dragonmaw Scorcher just feels right. It just feels like a card that should be around forever, it's not too strong, but it's a perfect tech choice.

Sludge Belcher as you've probably gathered if you read this post, I'm a guy who likes Midrange and Control, and whose fondest memories are of playing a lot of Hearthstone during GvG and Naxx. I don't think I need to explain more.

Dr. Boom. See above. Also, Hearthstone's most iconic card ever? You can't not love the guy, even if he was broken at the time.

Emperor Thaurissan does do worrying stuff to design space, but it offers so much creativity to players that I think it's worth it.

Ragnaros the Firelord felt fantastic to play. I loved seeing him back in Doom in the Tomb, and I think the event proved that Standard is ready for him.

Mountain Giant and Molten Giant. I think it was correct to rotate these guys, but I miss Handlock enormously, and I don't think it'd break Standard. I'd love having them in there for a year at some point.

Most of all, however, and my favourite Hearthstone card ever, which I wish was put in Core when it rotated out and which I wish was always available in Standard. Tar Creeper. I think this card is single-handedly responsible for control decks being viable for the entire time it was in Standard, and it never felt oppresive or broken. It's a brilliant design that single-handedly makes the meta way more diverse and entertaining. They struck absolute gold here, and there's no reason why it shouldn't alway be around. Tar Creeper is the GOAT.

Hey that was a novel, but I had fun venting. Been having a major Hearthstone nostalgia trip for a few days.

I just find it bizarre the amount of vitriol people have for the card. Sure, it can be frustrating to lose against, but it's seen so rarely that who even really cares? It's not like its niche is one that's ever going to see much play. It's a hard anti-late game card in a game that's always got at the very least one or two very powerful aggro decks. I wouldn't be upset if it was nerfed, but I also don't particularly see a need for it. It just seems bizarre that Tickatus seems to be the main card people are complaining about in a meta dominated by Tip The Scales Paladin and fifteen different flavors of aggro bullshit. The meta sucks, but Tickatus has absolutely no place in it. 

There's the argument about "well, Tickatus will prevent a control/combo meta from happening" but... I don't know, doesn't seem like it does much other than occupy the standard combo position of always winning vs control. It does better against combo than other combo decks, sure, but it still gets crushed by aggro and can potentially lose to faster combo decks if it doesn't draw Tickatus in time. It's just, I don't know, none of the three billion "TICKATUS NEEDS TO GET REMOVED FROM THE GAME AND EVERYONE WHO HAS HIM NEEDS THEIR ACCOUNT DELETED" threads that've popped up seemed to me to make more sense than, say, getting really angry at ETC Combo Warrior. They're both niche decks which could potentially make an impact on a theoretical future meta that may or may not ever come to exist. That's a lot of maybes.

Frankly, it's often overstated how hard it is to climb ladder with janky homebrew decks. All you have to do is maintain a 50% winrate or higher and you'll eventually get to Legend. For the past two months I've been climbing with a C'Thun Combo Priest where you run C'Thun, Nazmani Bloodweaver, Gadgetzan Auctioneer and fill the rest with spells starting from the cheapest, objective being to set up a Nazmani Bloodweaver + Gift of Luminence + Gadgetzan and cycle through your whole deck in a turn to play out C'Thun. I'm at a 52% winrate over two months right now and I've not run into a single person playing this same deck. Admittedly this is a deck I copied the idea for from a YouTube video, but in recent seasons I've climbed pretty well with a completely homebrew version of Quest Paladin. You can climb ladder with janky homebrew decks, it just happens that the meta is, shockingly, better than any janky homebrew you're going to come up with at climbing the ladder as quickly and efficiently as possible. There's no way around the fact that hundreds of thousands of people gathering data is eventually going to lead to decks that are better than weird jank that one person comes up with for fun.

That said, and having done my obligatory devil's advocate bit, I do think there are problems with the direction that deckbuilding in this game has gone. I like buildaround cards because they encourage you to do weird things that you wouldn't otherwise do with your deck, be it Singleton or Quests or whatever, but I think they've sort of gotten out of control. It used to be that you could put together that Kobold Illusionist, Malygos, Necrium Blade and Backstabbing your own Illusionist added up to a lot of spell damage, and then you'd create the Malygos Combo Rogue that defined K&C for me, but now that sort of thing can't keep up anymore. It's all about single cards that are so incredibly powerful when you get them to work that there's no reason to combine non-buildaround cards to get unexpected power turns. There's not that much creativity in writing "Reborn" in the search bar and shoving everything into a Quest Paladin, as much as I love that deck, or searching "Invoke" and putting that into your Galakrond deck. There need to be less designer-mandated "packages" and more focus on creating unexpected emergent combos and interactions by players. One or two in the meta is fine, but it feels like half the meta is built around a hard-coded interaction. Libram Paladin, Highlander Hunter, Totem Shaman, the Galakrond decks an expansion or two ago...

I agree that after a month the game mode's going to be pretty empty, and that a lot of players (myself included) look back on Vanilla with excessively rose-tinted glasses (I think it's the best the game's ever been, but there was still a lot of BS) but I don't think that means it's going to "fail". Blizzard clearly knows that this is going to be a niche side mode mostly there for old-timers to get their occasional nostalgia fix. It's not like there's a way for this mode to "succeed": It's free and it uses cards that most players will either already have or would be collecting anyway, Blizzard isn't going to be making money off of this. It's just a nice little thing that a lot of players have been wanting to see. No one's under the illusion that Classic is going to be many people's main mode, and I certainly don't think anyone thinks it's going to compete with Standard or Wild.

Oh wow, 20 million people playing, I guess everyone ceaselessly posting about how the game was dying was wrong, who knew?

I love that there's an option to play vanilla Hearthstone again, since in my opinion it was the best the game's ever been, but it seems really odd to have it as a full, permanent, game mode. If you don't evolve it it's going to get solved fast (what with an exponentially smaller card pool and having already existed) and it's going to get old, and if you do evolve it then... well, you've not really created a classic mode, have you? Oh well, I'm sure I'll climb to legend in it in the first month out of nostalgia and probably only touch it very rarely.