Hearthpwn

It's a fine idea, but like all things in this game I think your opponent needs a way to shut it down. Caverns Below is already in the game and similar to "tactics". It suffers from being non-interactive and it's that very reason I don't like your idea. Show me some cards that hard counter these effects first without being so terrible that no one will ever want to run them in the first place. I notice that you have tried to include a drawback for every benefit, but relying on a card to balance itself is poor design. It leads to some effects being too good while others are laughably under powered.

At the end of the day I think HS is just too simple of a game to have permanent aura enchantments and remain a fun, balanced game. Quest Rogue was nerfed twice for that very reason and much of this game's balance is already crippled by hero powers. There is not enough room for the tech, no sideboard and Blizzard's way of doing text is far too simple to implement such complexity. I want less permanent, infinite value bullshit and more focus on finite resources, intelligent trading and knowing when to swing for the kill. That is where Hearthstone shines.

All I know is that the cards in this expansion better be meta defining. I want each class to get a unique archetype push and I want them all to be viable. This game has crazy amounts of pack filler and failed archetypes. It shouldn't have to be overpowered either. Don't pigeon hole yourselves into a broken set that we are stuck with for another year. No obvious crap in this set is allowed either. Just because you haven't put a certain set of stats on a certain mana cost doesn't mean you should if it's some boring throwaway junk.

Even if it's everything I want this will be the first expansion that I won't preorder or spend any cash on in a while. I have lost all faith in team 5 to deliver a fun game that challenges me or offers new ways to play. I don't think they have any creativity left. Hero cards were the last honest cool new thing this game introduced. Prove me wrong. Just give every class some good cards for once.

Quote from DoggPound >>

Golakka Crawler meta all over again

 This literally never happens. Just look at pre boomsday where everyone was planning to run four copies of silence in their decks to beat all the mechs.

Here is what is more likely. All the pirate cards suck and we have a very similar meta with a microscopic shift that doesn't refresh the meta enough.

This is why we need to do away with evergreen and bring in a rotating core set. Over 40% of the meta is made up of Classic and Basic cards, so it's no wonder that the classic set has pigeon holed so many classes into different archetypes. The ability to heal and buff minions health actually lends itself super well to aggressive strategies, the problem is other the other classes have core sets that do it better.

Quote from RichardSRocha >>

Does anyone enjoy Hearthstone still, apart from the tryhards that play Zoo, Druid, Odd Rogue or smorc decks in general?

 I doubt it. Your idea of fun has to be pretty sad to enjoy Hearthstone right now. Seems the only thing defenders of the game can muster any more is waiting and hoping the game magically gets better from more cards being added. What they don't realize is even with new decks and cards running around, Hearthstone ultimately feels exactly the same as it did in 2014. We need more interesting ways to play this game. More cards aren't cutting it anymore.

Here is a small list of things I want to see:

Sideboards and best of threes.

A rotating core set.

New art for old cards. (Every time an old card rotates back in to standard, refresh it's art but allow old copies to still be playable.)

More interactive mechanics and text that offers more depth to cards. (Keep the text simple for some cards but allow more advanced and powerful mechanics in the game, everyone here knows how to play Hearthstone already, challenge us with complex cards and mechanics!)

Free to play draft mode.

A simple custom match tool when battling between friends that allows you to adjust how many cards are allowed, max health and deck size.

Weekly in game tournaments.

There is not a single thing on that list that isn't already in another digital card game. So why is the industry leader that has been on the market the longest with the largest audience still lacking? It's embarrassing if I am honest.

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

Last night I had an incredibly similar game against Deathrattle Hunter. I was also the QR. He had like 4 Shaw's and 2 devilsaurs on the board, but Giggling is the hero. I got double MCT's and Mossy Horror'd that game too.

Giggling broke quest rogue.

 Quest rogue was broken before Giggling Inventor, hence the two times it was nerfed. 

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

a) they would have nerfed Psychmelon, which is what most people seemed to want (even though the Aviana nerf is much better overall)

b) nerf Giggling Inventor to 6-mana, which what most people were expecting

c) nerf way more things that don't actually need nerfing, but 80% of the community are even worse at balancing a card game than Blizzard itself.

Fact is, Team5 is obviously not that good at keeping the game balanced, which is why it takes so long for balance patches to come out, as they want to evaluate data.

Also consider that Team 5 has insight into the future of hearthstone, which means balance patches won't always make sense immediately. Remember Blade Flurry? Pretty sure Kingsbane would be all kinds of broken if that was still around.

 

 I'll try to address your points in order but you seem conflicted so I will have to go jump around a bit. Let's start with your first one.

Juicy Psychmelon was the problem of the deck. It's a four mana card that is way above the power curve of what a four mana card should be. Why was this card printed? Why does a class with ramp need a four mana sprint? There is no reason for this card to exist as it does, it's power level is unquestionable. Yet they nerf Aviana despite the fact that Blizzard themselves has stated that the higher costing cards should feel powerful. AKA their entire justification for Ultimate Infestation. Here is an idea. How about instead of nerfing Aviana, you never print Kun and Psychmelon in the first place. If they have insight into the future, then why couldn't they see this would be unbalanced and break wild?

How do you know the community is wrong about what needs nerfed and what doesn't? Have you played the version of Hearthstone that many of us want to see and have asked for for years? You assume that since this random group of people were hired by Blizzard that they know better than the millions of people who spend more time playing the game than Blizzard does. Did you forget that for many on Team 5, this is the very first game they have ever worked on? The fact of the matter is more should have been nerfed. Player discontent is at an all time high and you even said it yourself, Blizzard is obviously not good at keeping the game balanced.

Blade Flurry wasn't nerfed because of Kinsbane and if it was, why didn't they wait until Kingsbane was about to release? Kingsbane at the end of the day is a horribly designed card that players can't interact with and yet you claim Blizzard sacrificed one of rogue's best board clears (INTERACTION!) that was both flavorful and unique in design for a card that many players simply hate. They also could have just removed the face damage on Flurry. (Or you know, they could have just made Kingsbane a card people could interact with and added text that if it was removed by weapon removal, it would not shuffle back into the deck. Only in Magic would you find a line of text so interactive and thoughtful apparently. Blizzard must think Hearthstone players are just too stupid to understand all that text or maybe they wouldn't want to play something that is reasonably balanced.) Why was it necessary to obliterate the Flurry by increasing it's mana cost as well when it already requires paying for a weapon, paying for weapon buff, drawing the buffs, putting buffs into your deck and etc. It was nerfed too hard and for no reason. Removing face damage was enough. We are back at Juicy Psychmelon territory. Why make the problem? If Blizzard is full of insight and knows better than it's player base, why do the continue to print problematic interactions knowing damn well that the players will have to suffer through them because Hearthstone lacks any way to ban problematic cards? 

Here is an idea Blizzard. When a card has a problematic interaction, you give it a line of text that works as either a drawback to said interaction or one that allows the opponent to respond. For example. "Whenever Kun enters play, your opponent has the opportunity to play a spell. After the opponent plays a spell or ends their turn, Kun the Forgotten King's Battlecry resolves." For Juicy Psychmelon, "Discard your hand and set your mana to 6. Draw a 7, 8, 9 and 10 cost card." That one line of text would have not only balanced Psychmelon but made it flavorful as well. 6,7,8,9,10.

That is how you balance a fucking game folks. That is interactive game design.

Quote from chemfatigue >>

Quote from Manawyrmnerfisbad >>

Its just makes me want to stop playing hearthstone when I see this kind of things. Instead of improving the game via needed nerfs of some cards (which doesn't include mana wyrm's nerf) they are trying to make more money by selling a new hero which doesn't have any impact on the gameplay. Disappointing.

 Yeah they are doing everything wrong if you ignore what they are doing right...

 Funny how people always want to down vote the negative comments and yet I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on the front page that was about how good Hearthstone is and what they are doing right. It's always the negative threads there. I wonder why. Maybe it's because there is far more bad than good in this game. Maybe it's because the unrealized potential for Hearthstone is going to forever be an illusion in the hands of the current team crafting this game. Or maybe, the defense force here can only defend because deep down they actually don't have much nice to say about the actual game. Much easier to throw one off sentences around like "salt thread" around than actually dispute the arguments being presented. Even your comment doesn't offer insight into what Hearthstone is doing right. It just claims for the sake of defense. 

That's a silly thing to worry about. Every deck gets boring eventually. If Blizzard would increase their card quality then card nerfs wouldn't even need to happen so frequently for this to be a concern. 

The nerfs are fine. Nobody will mourn these cards. The problem is, they didn't nerf the things people have actually been complaining about. Yes, Mana Wyrm is bullshit and yes, maybe as a neutral you can say GI was in too many decks. But why do cards that pose similar problems escape the chopping block? Both times Quest Rogue received nerfs, the deck was in a similar position as it is now. Not posting absurd winrates but rather just very unenjoyable to play against. So then we end up in the same position and rather just admit that QR is the disease it is, Blizzard chops off Giggling inventor. A card that had counterplay and asked interesting deckbuilding questions.

Do I run Mossy Horror to hit plague and giggling? Do I run Blood Knight to counter giggling and cheat out a giant minion? Do I run giggling myself and face the myriad of tech out there or do I cut it for something unexpected? 

Mana wyrm on the other hand increased winrates too much in the early game, but so does keleseth. So why not hit him? Because he will rotate? Then what about wild growth? That card is in almost every single druid deck out there, a problem that Blizzard noted with giggling being too easy to include without build arounds. It's just bizarro world.

I have long thought that playing favorites was an unfortunate by product of being unable to balance all 9 classes appropriately. But when I see obvious problems in obviously powerful classes continually ignored. There is something else going on. Blizzard isn't interested in balancing druid, much like shaman at it's peak. I just don't understand why. All I know, is it's over. This problem of balance will continue and at this point I can not believe it's by mistake. Someone in Blizzard is dictating what classes are on top and doing so on purpose.

Just play Magic the gathering. It runs on low end hardware and who doesn't have a computer in 2018?

I just want to point out that the two standard nerfs were to cards and decks that had actual counterplay. Mana Wyrm was in aggressive mage lists and while it was the most powerful one drop in standard, the deck could be beaten with well timed removal and life gain. The card was too powerful in the early game and changed the way games played out if played on curve, BUT so does Wild Growth and Keleseth. Why were those cards left untouched?

Then we have Giggling Inventor, the most inoffensive card I have ever seen hated so much. Why? It was fine as an aggressive tool, but it was also fine as as defensive one too. It also spiced up the meta and had counterplay with cards that barely saw any play like Blood Knight and Mossy Horror. So why nerf the card with counterplay instead of the card that made it absurd, Caverns Below. Cavers Below has 0 counterplay. You can't tech for it, it just happens. 

So yeah, it's fucked and anyone defending it is fucked as well. The nerfs targeted were unfair and their reasoning for hitting these cards instead of others makes absolutely no sense.  Even the Mana Wyrm nerf, a card I have hated for years doesn't make any sense. Context is key people. Yes it was a card that needed changed a long time ago, by why now when there are other cards in the game that currently have just as much game deciding impact when played in the early game. It's quite frankly bullshit. The druid hug box at Blizzard is real.

Quote from Kaladin >>

Druid is good.  Druid is not broken.  

I know that's not the circlejerk popular thing to say, but the statistics don't lie.  Druid has unfavorable matchups.  

 Oh, so we like our nerfs based on statistics rather than what's fun or isn't. Keep drinking that koolaid brother. First it was some guy with a Sora avatar talking about how playing Hearthstone should be a shitty experience, otherwise what is the point? Now we have you repeating word for word the crap Blizzard has tried spoon feeding us for years. Numbers don't lie, but neither do players. If something isn't fun, then it's not fucking fun. This is a game first and foremost, not a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. 

You seem to misunderstand the situation op. Sure some people are critical of the nerfs. For many though it's not about what got nerfed but rather what didn't. Giggling Inventor wasn't ruining the game for me. I don't care about wild. Mana Wyrm's change was simultaneously far too late because Tempo mage isn't exactly dominating the meta, and far too early because mage as a class is struggling to remain relevant. 

So they nerfed a card in a class that is struggling and they leave druid completely untouched (no one cares about wild) even though druid has several tier 1 decks. Many of which are running the exact same cards. (Shout out to giggling inventor who was apparently in too many decks, but druid is somehow okay?)

So how about this op, you list better reasoning for their decisions. because they are not even close to okay.

I have quit this game and fully moved over to MTGA, but these are the posts that keep me coming back. I don't know why I enjoy your suffering but I do. Maybe it's because I know how shit this game is and will continue to be as it always has been. Maybe I just lack any pity for anyone who is willing to continue to support this game despite better options existing and to be excited for. How about instead of questioning why Team 5 continues to lack any design sense or care for what players like you think, you go try MTG instead?

I mean surely there is something there you will like. Do you like dragons? Zombies? Dinosaurs? Pirates? Merfolk? There is something there for everyone. I liked rogue a lot in Hearthstone, so I naturally gravitated toward the rogues in magic and playing tricky cards. I built a black and blue surveil deck on my own and have been winning. In magic, everything feels so open to exploration that I don't feel tied down to any card in the game like I did in Hearthstone where some things were just objectively better. It's been a blast for a casual card player like myself who just enjoys creating and seeing the magic unfold. 

Not to mention the card quality is insane and Wizards has had 25+ years to learn from their mistakes. They seem pretty open to it as well and it's continually becoming clearer that whoever has designed these cards deeply loves playing magic themselves. As opposed to team 5 where it feels like none of these people actually play hearthstone.

I can't give you any answers for why Blizzard does what they do. Maybe it's growing pains? Maybe it's just that they don't care. Whatever the case. It's not something Blizzard will answer and that alone is reason to quit this game.