It also really depends on how long it takes you to grasp the differences between HS and many other CCG's. Took me a while to get used to the idea of not being able to interrupt the other players turn for example.
Also the concept of value, I've found, is wildly different in Hearthstone than in games like MTG for example and it even differs quite heavily between Ladder and Arena. There are cards that are absolutely worthless on the ladder, but great in arena and vice versa.
I think you need to have a decent understanding of how Hearthstone values cards, before trying to go competitive and I think you really only get that understanding through playing a buttload of games. I can explain to you why something like Piloted Shredder is a valuable card, but without you playing it and seeing it's value for yourself, I don't think that'll translate well to building a competitive deck.
Geddon is pretty awesome. I didn't like him at first, but he's won me a bunch of games especially in this current meta.
Varian is a good card, but I took him out because most of the time you're already winning when you play him and then time when you're not he's patchy at best. Yes, he can pull a win out of the hat with a good draw, but it's not a guaranteed thing.
I'd be looking to craft Alex, Justicar and Geddon before Varian. Out of Alex and Justicar, I'd go for Alex first.
Remove the slam and replace it with Shield Slam instead. You will get more consistency. If you're going to run slam then run two instead of one, however I think Shield Slam is more important than Slam. Also I generally only run 1x Brawl, but that comes down to personal opinion.
I would also aim for Justicar and Alex to replace Kel'Thuzad and 1x Cruel Taskmaster. Both Justicar and Alex are great value cards for Control Warrior. Alex I would say is the more important of the two.
Everything else is pretty solid. You can check out the deck in my sig for some further ideas (I am running a Slam CW at the moment).
You get drunk and instead of spending your money on a poor life choice tattoo you spend 2/3 of your bank balance on hearthstone cards you already have.
I'd really be surprised if they introduce a nerf to armor, or a card that counters armor, as I really can't see the point. There's no downside to armoring up? You have to use two mana to do it every turn or play cards that give you armor. That's a downside. Sure, a lot of those cards are pretty good, but you still paid 6 mana for a 5/5 or 3 mana to draw a card. If I'm doing that I sure as heck better get something else out of the deal.
Ultimately though, Warriors don't have a terrifically high win rate - not even Patron, and the issues that deck has have a lot less to do with armor than they do with other things. Why would Blizzard want to devote the time or design space to addressing something that's so rarely a problem. I have to imagine it's working the way they want. I mean sure, if Warriors ended every game with 30 armor we might have a problem, but Warriors end a decent number of their games at 0 armor, and 0 health to boot. I may be missing something, but Blizzard doesn't seem interested in printing cards that counter class mechanics, so why would they do that here?
The problem with armor is twofold.
1.: from balance perspective, it is far superior to healing as you can go above max. This limits other classes to be successful as a control class. If you give classes tools to fight that much health, other classes like priest which also supposed to have good survival skills, has no chance to compete.
2.: Warrior has already too many sources of armor and we will see more and more decks ineffective against control warrior as they simply run out of damage and die in fatigue. It is not yet a big problem, but we are getting there.
I don't think we're getting anywhere close to that. The only reason Patron is successful is because of Frothing Berserker OTK, not armor. Armor helps, but by itself it doesn't win games. Other than Patron, CW and DW are all Warrior has got that is half playable. Let's look at other classes for a sec:
Mage: Tempo Mage Freeze Mage Mech Mage and multiple variants of. Echo Mage
Warlock: Handlock Zoo (so maaany different variations). Mechlock Demonlock Starting to see some Dragonlocks
Paladin: Secret Mid-Range Control
Even Shaman has more decks, that are playable. They're all pretty shit, but you can still play them. I actually really like Totem Shaman with Justicar Trueheart just as a fun deck to play but that's beside the point.
Warrior has 3, 4 if you include aggro but seriously why would you? And people are seriously calling for the only thing warrior has going for it to be nerfed? C'mon guys... That's like asking for Overload on using the Shaman hero power.
I would also absolutely not agree with a card that removed all armor. To get to a reasonable amount of armor, disregarding the cost of hero power I have to spend at least 6 mana (2x Shield Block). You should not be able to remove all my armor with a 2 mana card. However when I have a lot of armor, I've likely spent at least 18 mana (2x Shield Block, 2x Shield Maiden) etc etc.
To say that just because you invested mana into getting your armor up, I shouldn't be able to reduce it for less mana is an absurd argument. I might use two healbots to bump my health up to max. By your logic, Alextrasza would be broken for bringing it all the way back down and giving a better body. Similarly, I might buff up my weapon as a rogue with deadly poison x2 and tinker's. I've spent a total of 8 mana on it and you can use ooze for 2 mana to get rid of it. That's how counter cards work. If I flood the board with 7 minions and you brawl, it was my fault for not playing around it.
Two healbots = 10 mana 16 life and a 6/6 body split into two. Alex = Max 15 damage/heal, 9 mana 8/8 single body.
I would call that very balanced, personally. I think you picked a bad example there.
I didn't say you shouldn't be able to reduce it for less mana. I said I'd be against a card that removed all armor instantly.
I could see a card with something like, "This card costs +1 mana per your opponents armor, up to a maximum of 8. Remove 20 armor from your opponent.'' so for example if your opponent had 1 armor, it would cost 1 mana and remove that armor etc.
That's because every second thread is a nerf thread. Nerfs are the worst things for competitive games and should only be used in the absolute worst case scenarios. Most of the time these threads are poorly worded, poorly thought out whines that need a nice plate of cheese to go with.
I will admit that I don't like nerf threads. I like the idea of coming up with cards to counter mechanics (which is what Blizzard has claimed they are trying to do before nerfing). CW armor isn't at a level where it NEEDS a counter, I just find it odd that it has no counter and I would love to see a card invented that interacted in this way.
It does have a direct counter. Literally any sort of damage. Potentially if you're expecting to face Control Warrior, you should tech in higher value minions/weapons and direct damage spells. The problem, like any deck, is that if you tech against armor you're gonna make yourself vulnerable to aggro.
I would not be opposed to certain tech cards that limit armor gain or penetrate armor to a limited extent but I don't really get this 'armor has no counter' argument.
I would also absolutely not agree with a card that removed all armor. To get to a reasonable amount of armor, disregarding the cost of hero power I have to spend at least 6 mana (2x Shield Block). You should not be able to remove all my armor with a 2 mana card. However when I have a lot of armor, I've likely spent at least 18 mana (2x Shield Block, 2x Shield Maiden) etc etc.
Even with Armorsmith, I still have to invest the two mana, then the subsequent mana in other creatures and then even more mana to damage all those creatures with a Whirlwind or Death's Bite to generate that large armor amount.
I've tried to make threads about this before but have gotten only a few actual worthwhile arguments and the rest were just negativity.
That's because every second thread is a nerf thread. Nerfs are the worst things for competitive games and should only be used in the absolute worst case scenarios. Most of the time these threads are poorly worded, poorly thought out whines that need a nice plate of cheese to go with.
There is no issue with Warriors and armor. I play CW often and I play an armor heavy build (2x Shield Blocks, 2x Maidens, 1x Bash, 1x Armorsmith) and still get whooped regularly. People need to think more about their own play styles and what they can do to counter before coming in and yelling for nerfs.
Aggro destroy's me if I don't get the right draws. Handlock destroys me unless I get perfect draws. Dragon Priest is 50/50 depending on who gets the best draws late game. Secret Pally is 50/50 depending on when MC comes out.
1
It also really depends on how long it takes you to grasp the differences between HS and many other CCG's. Took me a while to get used to the idea of not being able to interrupt the other players turn for example.
Also the concept of value, I've found, is wildly different in Hearthstone than in games like MTG for example and it even differs quite heavily between Ladder and Arena. There are cards that are absolutely worthless on the ladder, but great in arena and vice versa.
I think you need to have a decent understanding of how Hearthstone values cards, before trying to go competitive and I think you really only get that understanding through playing a buttload of games. I can explain to you why something like Piloted Shredder is a valuable card, but without you playing it and seeing it's value for yourself, I don't think that'll translate well to building a competitive deck.
0
Geddon is pretty awesome. I didn't like him at first, but he's won me a bunch of games especially in this current meta.
Varian is a good card, but I took him out because most of the time you're already winning when you play him and then time when you're not he's patchy at best. Yes, he can pull a win out of the hat with a good draw, but it's not a guaranteed thing.
I'd be looking to craft Alex, Justicar and Geddon before Varian. Out of Alex and Justicar, I'd go for Alex first.
0
Remove the slam and replace it with Shield Slam instead. You will get more consistency. If you're going to run slam then run two instead of one, however I think Shield Slam is more important than Slam. Also I generally only run 1x Brawl, but that comes down to personal opinion.
I would also aim for Justicar and Alex to replace Kel'Thuzad and 1x Cruel Taskmaster. Both Justicar and Alex are great value cards for Control Warrior. Alex I would say is the more important of the two.
Everything else is pretty solid. You can check out the deck in my sig for some further ideas (I am running a Slam CW at the moment).
0
The Mistress of Pain definitely needs to go. Haunted Creeper would be 10x better, plus offer synergy with Knife Juggler.
1
Take out the Counter Spell and Effigy and replace with Mirror Entities.
1
You get drunk and instead of spending your money on a poor life choice tattoo you spend 2/3 of your bank balance on hearthstone cards you already have.
0
Control Warrior and Mech/Tempo Mage.
0
In general what should be played first if holding both, Wild Growth or Darnassus Aspirant?
0
I wouldn't DE. You will regret it later.
0
I don't think we're getting anywhere close to that. The only reason Patron is successful is because of Frothing Berserker OTK, not armor. Armor helps, but by itself it doesn't win games. Other than Patron, CW and DW are all Warrior has got that is half playable. Let's look at other classes for a sec:
Mage:
Tempo Mage
Freeze Mage
Mech Mage and multiple variants of.
Echo Mage
Warlock:
Handlock
Zoo (so maaany different variations).
Mechlock
Demonlock
Starting to see some Dragonlocks
Paladin:
Secret
Mid-Range
Control
Even Shaman has more decks, that are playable. They're all pretty shit, but you can still play them. I actually really like Totem Shaman with Justicar Trueheart just as a fun deck to play but that's beside the point.
Warrior has 3, 4 if you include aggro but seriously why would you? And people are seriously calling for the only thing warrior has going for it to be nerfed? C'mon guys... That's like asking for Overload on using the Shaman hero power.
0
Two healbots = 10 mana 16 life and a 6/6 body split into two.
Alex = Max 15 damage/heal, 9 mana 8/8 single body.
I would call that very balanced, personally. I think you picked a bad example there.
I didn't say you shouldn't be able to reduce it for less mana. I said I'd be against a card that removed all armor instantly.
I could see a card with something like, "This card costs +1 mana per your opponents armor, up to a maximum of 8. Remove 20 armor from your opponent.'' so for example if your opponent had 1 armor, it would cost 1 mana and remove that armor etc.
1
It does have a direct counter. Literally any sort of damage. Potentially if you're expecting to face Control Warrior, you should tech in higher value minions/weapons and direct damage spells. The problem, like any deck, is that if you tech against armor you're gonna make yourself vulnerable to aggro.
I would not be opposed to certain tech cards that limit armor gain or penetrate armor to a limited extent but I don't really get this 'armor has no counter' argument.
I would also absolutely not agree with a card that removed all armor. To get to a reasonable amount of armor, disregarding the cost of hero power I have to spend at least 6 mana (2x Shield Block). You should not be able to remove all my armor with a 2 mana card. However when I have a lot of armor, I've likely spent at least 18 mana (2x Shield Block, 2x Shield Maiden) etc etc.
Even with Armorsmith, I still have to invest the two mana, then the subsequent mana in other creatures and then even more mana to damage all those creatures with a Whirlwind or Death's Bite to generate that large armor amount.
1
That's because every second thread is a nerf thread. Nerfs are the worst things for competitive games and should only be used in the absolute worst case scenarios. Most of the time these threads are poorly worded, poorly thought out whines that need a nice plate of cheese to go with.
There is no issue with Warriors and armor. I play CW often and I play an armor heavy build (2x Shield Blocks, 2x Maidens, 1x Bash, 1x Armorsmith) and still get whooped regularly. People need to think more about their own play styles and what they can do to counter before coming in and yelling for nerfs.
Aggro destroy's me if I don't get the right draws. Handlock destroys me unless I get perfect draws. Dragon Priest is 50/50 depending on who gets the best draws late game. Secret Pally is 50/50 depending on when MC comes out.
0
Can we PLEASE stop having all these nerf threads.
0
I originally started with Dragon Priest but changed to the deck in my sig. At level 10 with this deck so far,