Hearthpwn

I heard Kripp say something that I found really interesting, he basically said that blizzard tries to find that sweet spot where they can please everyone, new players and veteran players, but what end up happening is they release new simple cards (so the game is kept simple for the new players) that soon become the meta but any non meta deck is complete garbage because their game balancing sucks. So we end up with new players who can't win because they don't have the cards and veteran players who can't enjoy the game because the cards are too simple and the meta is boring.

BLIZZARD IS TRASH.

this deck is simply awesome

I like to use every possible card in my hand to show my opponent what I had, if you get salty with it, grow up.

balanced meta? LUL

How ironic of you creating a thread to complain about complaining threads. Let them voice their opinion you censoring sheep.

Oh please... they are grown ups, they don't need an army of idiots defending them like a bunch of sheeps, when they say they don't want to be "harrassed" what they actually mean is they don't want to become memes like Ben Brode did. Most of the criticism and hate is well deserved, even though I love this game, the incompetence of their team is mindblowing sometimes.

One more thing, there is a reason to why Paladin decks has always been the decks that use neutral cards the most, that is because most of the class cards for him sucks huge ass. Even cards that were considered good before are now weak compared to new cards (like concecration).

Paladin has the worst hero power in the game, Paladin has no good tempo cards like rogue, Paladin has no good face damage dealing cards, Paladin has no recover mechanics except for clears which is counter intuitive to the Pirate playstyle. Paladin is just shit.

This is comming from someone with more than 3000 Paladin wins.

I hit legend today with this list and oh boy

This deck is fun while not being stupid like full aggro pirate warrior. People added me to insult me because they didn't understand what this deck was about, someone even said "wtf is your deck dude? fuck you". Pretty effective deck against the meta, well done.

Pure aggro shaman is not that good, try the jade version of it.

TL;DR is that Jade Golem is under costed at ~1-1.5 mana on many of the cards when it should be ~2 mana. So I think that Aya Blackpaw, Jade Behemoth, Jade Idol, Jade Swarmer, Jade Lightning, and Jade Claws should be slightly changed to reflect that.

Introduction

So for the past few months there’s been a lot of complaining about Jade Golem (shocking, I know). So I wanted to take a moment and see if I can break down why they are a problem. Now this is gonna be a long post, so brace yourself. If you only want to see the proposed changes, skip to the end.

What is a Jade Golem worth (in theory)?

Jade Golem as a mechanic is fairly straightforward. The first time you summon one, it is a 1/1, but every time afterwards it increases by +1/+1. So if you summoned 5 of them, you’d get a 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5. If you’ve played Hearthstone at any point since MSG this should be obvious. So this lead me to ask the question: What is the value of a Jade Golem?

Well, a fairly basic formula for how much a pile of stats is worth is Mana = (Attack+Health-1)/2.* So to take an example, Chillwind Yeti is a 4/5 minion. Using the formula, Mana = (4+5-1)/2 = 4. And what do you know? It costs 4 mana in game! So if we apply this formula to Jade Golem:

1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6,…x/x

= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5,…x - 0.5

So, pretty straightforward right? So over the course of a game, how many Jade Golem can you reasonably assume to summon? Well, most Jade Decks (except Rogue) have access to 10 Jade Golem per game assuming they play every card that summons a Jade Golem and do not do any additional synergy (i.e. Jade Spiritx2 + Aya Blackpaw for everyone (which is 4), Jade Claws/Jade Lightning/Jade Chieftainx2 for Shaman (which is 6), Jade Blossom/Jade Behemoth/Jade Idolx2 for Druid (which is 6), Jade Shuriken/Jade Swarmerx4 for Rogue (which is 4)). Though it is certainly possible to summon more than that, and there are many games were you don’t get that high, I think as an estimate for value that feels reasonable. So using the formula again:

1/1 + 2/2 + 3/3…+ 10/10

= 0.5 + 1.5 + 2.5…+ 9.5

= 50

Seeing that this is split over 10 minions, that means the average value of a Jade Golem is 5 mana each. NOW DON’T GET UP IN ARMS YET, I REALIZE THAT NUMBER IS WAYYY TOO HIGH! But just keep this number in mind as we look at how much they are actually valued at in-game.

What is a Jade Golem worth (in practice)?

In game, there are 10 cards that can summon a Jade Golem. Every one of those cards (sorta) has additional effects so that we can roughly find the value of those cards IF THEY DID NOT SUMMON A Jade Golem. Then, by taking the difference, we can see how much a Jade Golem is currently worth:

Jade Spirit: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 2/3. Using the formula that is worth about 2 mana. Given that the card is worth 4 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.

Aya Blackpaw: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/3. Using the formula that is worth about 3.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, and that it summons 2 Jade Golem, each Jade Golem is worth 1.25 mana.

Jade Idol: This one is easy, it is 1 mana for 1 Jade Golem. NEXT!

Jade Behemoth: Without the Jade Golem, this card is a 3/6 Taunt. Using the formula, that is worth 4 mana without the Taunt. Taunt is typically budgeted at 0.5 mana, so it is worth 4.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 1.5 mana.

Jade Blossom: Given that Wild Growth is worth 2 mana, the Jade Golem should be worth about 1 mana. However, given that ramping mana is less valuable the closer you get to 10 mana, I’d argue the “Gain an empty Mana Crystal” is worth only about 1.75 mana, making the Jade Golem worth 1.25 mana.

Jade Shuriken: Baseline this card deals 2 damage, which is worth 1 mana. Therefore Combo: Summon a Jade Golem is worth 1 mana. Since Combo effects in game tend to be costed at the average of getting the effect and not getting the effect, I’d argue the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.

Jade Swarmer: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 1/1 Stealth. 1/1 is worth 0.5 mana according to the formula without the Stealth. Stealth tends to be worth 0.5 mana, so it is worth 1 mana without the Jade Golem, meaning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.

Jade Lightning: A formula for determining how much direct damage is worth is Mana = Damage – 1. Using this, 4 damage is worth 3 mana. This means summoning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.

Jade Chieftain: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/5 with Taunt (sorta). Using the formula (and the assumption that Taunt is worth 0.5 mana), this is worth 5 mana. This means the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.

Jade Claws: Weapons are very hard to figure out their mana cost, but the way I budget it is that weapons should be able to deal an average of 3 damage per mana. This means a 2/2 weapon (4 damage) is worth about 1.33 mana. Given that the card is worth 2 and has an overload of 1 (making it really worth 3 mana), this means the Jade Golem is worth 1.67 mana.

That was a lot of math that was likely wrong. But anyways, we can see that in game the value of a Jade Golem fluctuates a lot, but it tends to be between 1-1.5 mana. Given that the theoretical value is 5 mana, you can see why they are such an oppressive force on the meta.

So what’s the solution?

Well, I’m not so crazy that I think Jade Golem should be increased across the board on all cards to 5. That would be a nerf akin to Warsong Commander. But I do think there’s a problem here, and the most reasonable why I can see to fix it is to increase the value of a Jade Golem on all cards to 2 mana. Since the cards that exist right now that currently summon a 2 mana Jade Golem don’t feel very overpowered, this seems a reasonable way of adjusting the cards. This wouldn’t mean changing every card, and while it would weaken Jade Golem I think it would be a reasonable way to put Jade Golem in check. And if in theory these changes didn't go far enough, the value of a Jade Golem could be increased to 2.5, 3, etc. until the magic number for balance is found. But for now...

Here is what I propose:

• Jade Spirit, Jade Shuriken and Jade Chieftain all remain the same.
• Though it is too powerful, there really isn’t a way to change Jade Blossom without completely ruining the card. So while I do want it changed, I’d leave it the same.
• Jade Idol increases to 2 mana.
• Jade Behemoth becomes a 3/5.
• Jade Swarmer loses Stealth.
• Jade Lightning either increases to 5 mana or reduces to 3 damage.
• Jade Claws becomes a 1/3 weapon with overload (1).
• Aya Blackpaw becomes a 3/3 or increases cost to 7 mana. While technically 2/3 or 3/2 is correct according to the formula, she is a legendary so whatever.

Thanks for reading. I know I posted a massive wall of text, so if you stuck it through I thank you. Now go ahead and tear this apart with your comments…or, you know, just post TL;DR. ;)

 Cheers! Now on to ranting about Pirates... ;P

*I fully recognize that this is a simple formula, and won’t work in all cases. But it does give a general idea of how much a card is worth. I know there are a lot of minions in the game that don’t fit this formula, but I think that speaks to a systemic problem with the power curve of the game which I’ll save for another rant.

Now my suicide Warlock with Flame Imp, Unlicensed Apothecary, Spreading Madness, Hellfire, Pit Lord, Dread Infernal, Felfire Potion, Abyssal Enforcer, Emerald Reaver, Mad Bomber, Abomination, Bittertide Hydra, Bomb Squad and Baron Geddon is complete.

This is the weapon that Blizzard wants to release for the worst class in the game. Alright.

I'm really, really miss old beloved CONTROL Palladin. Best days were and most balanced imo for this class, were we had nice early drops (besides broken mid game Piloted Shredder). Cards like Shielded Minibot and especially Muster for Battle should be in classic set for Pally + ewentually Quartermaster. Some early answers with potencial combo late game. This was one from most fun and strategy wise control decks, sadly destroyed after idiotic nobrainer cards went in (ekhm Mysterious Challenger ekhm) and standard went in -_-

Hope CONTROL Pally will back in glory, maybe after next year waiting...

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

Since secret paladin era paladin got nothing, played secret paladin now.. it's garbage compared to reno decks and such.. really paladin need GOOD 2 drops they got a decent one in ungoru now they need another one, also a 3 drop.. aswell .. maybe bring back muster for battle???? Paladin need such card

. .. rotate out blessing of champions and get MFB in standard..  it's not that strong as it used to be and it's something paladin got since it was trash since vanilla.. 

And was trash since wotog.. was only tier 1 for 8 months

Quote from Propane >>

You have seen fewer than half the Ungoro cards. How are you able to say what you are getting?

"I have not faith in Blizzard." means you should stop posting and play something else.

It does indeed seem like paladin is the trash can for card ideas which were scrapped from other classes.

So you need six buff spells on minions in a class that already lacks good early game. GG, Blizz!