Hearthpwn

Thanks to all who have contributed by comment or vote. Quite easy to see the dilemma involved with most people preferring Buddies (2:1 split) but also having reservations about them also and caveats to their inclusion.

I guess most depends on what Blizzard's view is about the game mode going forward. Arena, Mercenaries and Duels dont seem (i could be wrong) to be anything like as popular as BGs, most people play Tavern Brawls for a pack and maybe complete a daily quest or two along the way, so BGs seems to be the main alternative to Standard/Wild constructed play - but still a side game.

If they do see it as something more than that, maybe they could consider looking to offering Buddy and Non-Buddy lobbies for players to choose their preference and do battle with like minded players?

Feel that now Naga's are now back into the minion pool and not auto part of every lobby, along with their nerfs, the game is a bit more balanced and 'enjoyable' - although it still feels quite bland compared to Buddy lobbies. Hopefully Diablo will **** off again soon and we'll see what the next patch brings!

Good discussion though....and i didnt even see any trolling or unnecessary flaming!!!!!!!!!! See, it can be done!!!!! :)

Good luck on the battlefield all!

So we've had Battlegrounds without Buddies, then with them, and then back to being without them.

Simple question (ish!) - do you prefer the game with or without Buddies?

For me, i have to say i miss them and despite seeing some crazy builds and stats because of them, they just make the game more fun overall. Though that may be easy for a 7k MMR pleb like me to say. 

Just curious to gauge what others think.

Yep, agree, watching streamers on Twitch play BGs is a great way to get insights how to play - not just the game itself, but - and probably more importantly - how to play the hero you have chosen alongside the tribes that are on offer.

Not all heroes follow the usual (ish) default strategy of Turn 1 Buy, Turn 2 Level, Turn 3 Sell Buy Buy, Turn 4 Buy Buy, Turn 5 Buy Level and so on. Some heroes you want to stay at L1 and then go straight to L3. Some need power levelling. Some heroes you can stay at L1 pretty much all game.

But if all else fails, just look for the best value minions in the early levels, irrespective of what tribe they are, and then look to start to properly build from Turn 5/6 onwards. Doing this should help you get your buddy on the board sooner rather than later, and its these dudes that turn good builds into truly powerful ones. Dont beat yourself up over losses - try and learn something from the game youve played (especially the specific hero youve played) and take it forward.

Youll get there 

Quote from freakin3 >>

It's fine as a spot buff, but Menagerie is no longer something you go for when things aren't going well, it's a build where you have to be super lucky from the first turn on to pull off.   Often involving quilboars, and rarely ever planned, just usually a, "oh, I have 4 big good minions from different tribes, fancy that".  Even then Lightfang has little to do with it working out.   

 I fully agree - but thats exactly what i feel is the biggest shame of all, as we have really lost what was a true effective build with Lightfang at the centre of it. It wasnt unbeatable - no build really is - but it was effective and very much was an option when Bob was being a dick, as he often is.

I guess it is what it is nowadays. And probably worse for us 7k plebs than the top players to boot.

Quote from SirJohn13 >>

Even with Ragnaros he eventually becomes your pivot and almost never makes it to the end comp. A buff by bringing him down to t4 would be quite weclome frankly...

 As per my OP, im not even sure making him a T4 minion would make that much difference....wonder what others think?

Quote from freakin3 >>

It was dead before buddies.   I think it was the change that changed a lot of the tribe's cards, the one that added cards like lightspawn and tarecgosa, it boosted the power level and scaling of all the tribes to a point that lightfang couldn't keep up anymore.

 Quite probably right to be honest. 

Firstly, im a fan of the Buddies and the difference they bring to BGS.

However, to me, they have made my old friend Lightfang Enforcer pretty much unplayable in the current game - especially at Tier 5 - he is now just too slow and weak to help scale your tribe, with Menagerie builds all but gone from the game.

Its a shame, as playing Menagerie used to be a real favourite of mine and a go to if Bob didnt give you a clear tribe strategy earlier on, with Lightfang being central to that build.

I dont even think Lightfang would be much of a factor if he was buffed down to Tier 4....maybe even Tier 3?

Cant claim to be a top player - im usually somewhere around the 7k mark, but watch alot of Super JJ, RDU, Kripp, Sjow etc and dont ever really see Lightfang used at higher levels....but would be interested to hear if anyone still sees a place for one of my favourite BG minions whilst the Buddies are around?

Quote from Andrei2007 >>

Quote from AngelGabrielUK >>

Ive fought him and won - and fought him and lost.

Picked him as my hero....had a top 8, top 4 and top 1

Hes not as bad or as good as people say....but i also will be glad to see the back of him - mainly because of those god-awful demon secrets. 

 

 

 wow 3 games. we have a conclusion boys

 Sad that some people literally need everything explaining as they dont have an IQ in double digits, but the point i was making was that ive had every type of result with him as my hero across countless games....from last to first and those in between. Am very sorry that i literally didnt make that patently clear for you.

Hope that helps you. Doubt it, but we live in hope.

Ive fought him and won - and fought him and lost.

Picked him as my hero....had a top 8, top 4 and top 1

Hes not as bad or as good as people say....but i also will be glad to see the back of him - mainly because of those god-awful demon secrets. 

Agree that the patch has seemingly balanced the tribes more. Every tribe in isolation now feels strong enough to win a lobby. Some stronger than others - the usual highrollers will always prevail - but there is something there for every tribe now.

The only build that does now really feel not viable is Menagerie. Even if you pick up an early Lightfang, just feels that pretty much all other tribe builds can outscale Menagerie builds and wreck them. Shame, but cant have everything i guess!

Quote from Tallaris >>

Quote from Random_Huffer >>

Quote from Tallaris >>

Lmao. Normal HS is the trashiest of trash compared to BG.

Idd from time to time there will be this lobby with high rollers but usually, you deserve your loss or win.

Normal HS on the other hand? 90% of the time: his hand was better than mine, he had better randomly created stuff, his deck was a counter to mine, my deck has no tool to handle my opponent strategy, he won despite misplays.

NORMAL HS IN A NUTSHELL.  

 why are you so mad dude? If you are frustrated feel free to go in the Salt threat.

This thread is criticism toward BG if you haven't noticed.  Just replaying accordingly to the thread tone. Why would you think I'm mad? Because of large letters at the end? KEKW

 I understood your post and agree with it. I cant claim to have the worlds highest BGS MMR (float between 6.5 - 7.5k) but i often feel at the end of any game my position is about what i deserved from my play, the hero and shop offered. Occasionally i run into a super high roller that just obliterates my board and defeats me unexpectedly - but then there are times i do that to others also. 

But i definitely agree that BGS is more 'in your own hands' compared to Constructed - i only really now play constructed to complete certain quests.

Quote from Psy_Kik >>

Removing cards prizes was fine, but they also removed the likes of Zerus..the game feels a bit stale.

It's highlighted my main issue with the mode - the first few turns you have no freedom. See a sellemental or token on 1, you must buy. on 6 gold you can't roll, you must buy whatever shit is in tavern, level after that and again buy whatever shit is in tavern, then you must go to four asap, sometimes a turn early but you need to be on 4 so you can tripple into a 5 if you get a tripple.

Tavern tiers 1 to 3 become irrrelevant, unless playing a hero like Arianna. When you hit that tripple on 4 you get either a baron or a nomi or a brann or Hoggar or lightfang...or hell even a Mythrax or Razorgore you can finally start to actually play the game.

The mode is becoming played out, it needs more complexity. Badly. I don't really mean Prizes back, that is just more power spikes. I'm talking more tavern tiers. I'm talking more health for the heroes. I'm talking more cool minions with cool effects. I'm talking making the endgame more than just stats vs poisonous vs divine shields. Blizzard will look at the numbers and think "people are still loving playing, we shouldn't change it up too much" but this would be a mistake - they need to be brave and innovate.

 This + 100%. 

Nice post, and congrats on the achievement.

One of your points is one that gives me the most troubles - not really hero specific - but just in general :

*Taking best option on the board until you can work into that win condition is important. When you lose a round, getting hit for 5-7 HP is way easier to manage then those killer 18-20 shots.*

Whilst acknowledging that all games are different, and much depends on the hero you're playing as well as what Bob offers, i find that in the early rounds - and pretty much until i get to Tier 4, i try and focus on the best units available, and keeping my HP as high as possible, without committing to a certain build.

But then, once i look to move to a certain build, i find myself panicking if i dont get the types of minion needed - and often default to a Menagerie type board, in the hope i can find an early Lightfang and scale that way - on the basis that usually you get can a decent class minion type per roll - and one or two per round.

Sometimes it works - but often i end up falling behind after a strong start.

What would be your advice with this? As said, i know alot depends on many variables that cant all be represented on here, but i feel like that unless i really high roll, i get caught between a rock and a hard place and end up not getting the results i could do with a better strategy.

Im a circa 7k player - which may also be part of the problem and explain a few things!! :)

It feels a little like a no win situation then. Game is chuntered at as first attack is too OP in certain areas - but then put in a measure to balance it up, and the game becomes 'solvable'. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't Blizz :)

I dont understand why Blizz cant implement a system whereby after R1 (which is just random), whomever has the lower placing attacks first. 

Unless you're Illidan of course.

But that aside, can anyone point out any flaws to this, which seems (IMO) much fairer than it being apparent RNG, or bias, or whatever its currently based on....?