Hearthpwn

Quote from grisu >>

Quote from Amaranthus >>

Then they screwed up the wording at the very least. In comparison, Injured Blademaster says "Deal 4 damage to himself." That clarifies that the minion itself is the one dealing the damage. I would have no problem with Reckoning triggering on the Blademaster.

Also, flavourwise, Reckoning shouldn't even trigger on damage to my own characters at all. But that is a different story.

 every battlecry minion that does damage is always the source of the damage dealt. if the battlecry of reckless apprentice does more than 3 damage for example he also triggers the secret bc he was using your heropower instead of you

 Actually, I never thought of minion battlecries this way. When it says "deal x damage", I always assume it speaks to the player, so I'm the one dealing the damage. Otherwise I would expect the wording to be "this deals x damage". But what you - and others in this thread as well - suggest makes a lot of sense. HS apperently always sets the minion as the default origin of the battlecry effect, the wording just isn't very clear about this fact. Too bad there isn't a rulebook where you can look such stuff up. Or is there?

Quote from SinAscendant >>

Quote from Amaranthus >>

Quote from SinAscendant >>

Quote from Amaranthus >>

Man, I hate the current meta. Everything I'd really like to play (Dude Pally, Weapon Rogue, Frenzy Warrior, Zoolock) is more or less unplayable and the only other sort of interesting deck (Rush Warrior) is so damn expensive to craft. So, left with another two months of Token Druid. /*Yawn*/

 Weapon rogue is 53% winrate and zoolock is 56% right now.

 

Dude Pally isn't in Standard right now so I'm not sure what you mean by that. There's maybe 7 cards for it in Standard total.

Frenzy War is pretty bad in this meta so that one I'll give you.

 You either only quote the best performing decks with a low sample size or low rank statistics. If you take the average over all decks from Diamond to Legend since the mini set, then Weapon Rogue is at 47.85% and Zoolock at 44.04%. Both losing decks.

Well, Dude Pally clearly exists. There are Lothraxion the Redeemed, Carnival Barker, Balloon Merchant, Day at the Faire, Stand Against Darkness, Soldier's Caravan and Pursuit of Justice, all clearly tied to this archetype. It just hasn't a top tier meta deck at the moment, and that is precisely my point.

 https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-198/

 

Not quoting low sample size or low rank buddy.  Weapon Rogue isn't amazing in Legend but it's still Tier 3, aka playable. Zoo doesn't really get played at legend but is still positive at Gold+.  

 

And no, we aren't using "the average across all decks" because that's moronic, why would I include bad builds? We're talking about if you build the deck properly, not rando scrubs running budget builds. 

 

And wow, you linked the 7 cards that I had already mentioned. Amazing. Protip, decks have 30 cards in them. Not 13. Those are just cards left over from when Dude Pally was an archetype last year, and the rest of the archetype rotated out. And they don't have enough coverage; old Dude Pally had Adapt, it had free Lions, it had Tarim, and was mainly an aggro deck. The current version has lost the aggro component so it's not a full deck anymore. A few summon cards and some +Atk doesnt make a full archetype. There's no draw, no value, etc. Hell, Balloon Merchant is literally a 4 mana +1 attack if you already played Lothraxion. Most of what was played in the old Dude pally got cycled out with core set, and there aren't enough synergies to play the deck right now. It's like riding a bike with one wheel.

 First of all, I would appreciate you stopping that condescending tone of yours. While I admit I maybe was a little bit harsh questioning your stats, I still don't think I've done anything to insult you.

Second, an honest question about the VS report: Where can I find the overall stats for a certain deck? I only found specific matchups, which isn't very helpful as you would have to compare that to the popularity of those decks.

Nevermind, I just read the FAQ and apparently, what they call "Power Ranking" is just a weighted winrate, right?

Third, the stats from HSReplay Premium show what I posted above. I'm not sure how the difference is to be explained, since I don't know enough about the MO of both sites. But at least, both views have to be taken into account.

Fourth, "rando scrubs running budget builds" usually don't make it into HSR statistics up to a relevant sample size either. But if you look at different decks for a certain archetype there, you often see quite a few with a high winrate but a small sample size, while another deck for the same archetype has way more data and a more reasonable win rate. That might explain my remark about sample size. Also, bad homebrew decks will quite often be played in Platinum and below, so you can filter out quite a bit of those by looking at stats from Diamond and above, as I did.

Fifth, your remark about decks having 30 cards is true, but meaningless. There aren't 30 cards that interact with Soul Fragments and still they're played in pretty much any Control Warlock deck. I guess no reasonable Elemental Shaman deck actually runs 30 elementals. There are certain packages of synergy cards and either they fit into a top tier deck or they don't. In case of Dude Pally synergistic cards are there, but they don't have a proper fit right now. Which was what I was salty about, so I cannot comprehend, what exactly there was to argue about.

Sixth, your anecdote about old Dude Pally doesn't make much sense either. Cards like Crystal Lion and Sunkeeper Tarim might have been in Dude Pally decks of old, but they had already rotated out of standard before e. g. Lothraxion the Redeemed was even created. Meaning those cards, mostly from Madness at the Darkmoon Faire, were clearly supposed to restart that archetype. The devs even (re-)introduced some Dude Cards with the core set and Forged in the Barrens, so they probably wanted to have the archetype in standard in some way. And the archetype didn't lose much during the last rotation. There sure were some cards to consider, but I'd argue the only painful loss was Air Raid.

Seventh, as to your remark about "like riding a bike with one wheel": I've played several Dude decks in the last months and they were always quite on the edge of viability, with winrates not far below 50%. I'd say about tier 4 maybe. The statistics on VS and HSR just don't show the archetype due to low popularity. It's only missing a couple pieces, maybe a slight buff here and there and it would be a good deck. That's what I was complaining about.

As a die-hard Diablo II geek who mains her in HotS, there can only be one:

Then they screwed up the wording at the very least. In comparison, Injured Blademaster says "Deal 4 damage to himself." That clarifies that the minion itself is the one dealing the damage. I would have no problem with Reckoning triggering on the Blademaster.

Also, flavourwise, Reckoning shouldn't even trigger on damage to my own characters at all. But that is a different story.

I've just witnessed a possible glitch. My opponent in arena had Reckoning up, I played Injured Marauder and its battlecry triggered Reckoning and killed it. There's no way this works as intended, right? I mean, the card says "Deal 6 damage to this minion." So the marauder isn't the entity dealing the damage.

Quote from sanchogrande >>

I see control warlock, control warrior, and control priest with regularity in Diamond. Does Clown Druid count as a control deck? I see that too. On occasion, I'll see slower hunter, mage, shaman, and DH decks too, but they probably can't be classified as control decks.

I'm not sure which of warrior, priest, druid, and warlock is the best control deck though. I still lose to warlock when I play other control decks. It's hard to overcome the loss of 10 cards. 

 I have also seen those frequently. That is certainly one aspect which is good about the game right now. Aggro, midrange and control all have their place and see play. But in my opinion, everything looks extremely overtuned. Aggro decks are too explosive and have too much refill, midrange decks cheat too much mana and control decks either have way too many too good removal tools (Warlock) or generate way too much cards (Priest).

I would love HS to be more like arena, where you actually get to play expensive minions, think about board trades and so on. The power level in in standard is too high overall.

Yeah, sure, let's ban a single card from a mode that's destined to contain the entirety of HS cards. That sounds like an elegant solution and surely is testament to how well-designed the card and its interactions are.

Quote from SinAscendant >>

Quote from Amaranthus >>

Man, I hate the current meta. Everything I'd really like to play (Dude Pally, Weapon Rogue, Frenzy Warrior, Zoolock) is more or less unplayable and the only other sort of interesting deck (Rush Warrior) is so damn expensive to craft. So, left with another two months of Token Druid. /*Yawn*/

 Weapon rogue is 53% winrate and zoolock is 56% right now.

 

Dude Pally isn't in Standard right now so I'm not sure what you mean by that. There's maybe 7 cards for it in Standard total.

Frenzy War is pretty bad in this meta so that one I'll give you.

 You either only quote the best performing decks with a low sample size or low rank statistics. If you take the average over all decks from Diamond to Legend since the mini set, then Weapon Rogue is at 47.85% and Zoolock at 44.04%. Both losing decks.

Well, Dude Pally clearly exists. There are Lothraxion the Redeemed, Carnival Barker, Balloon Merchant, Day at the Faire, Stand Against Darkness, Soldier's Caravan and Pursuit of Justice, all clearly tied to this archetype. It just hasn't a top tier meta deck at the moment, and that is precisely my point.

Man, I hate the current meta. Everything I'd really like to play (Dude Pally, Weapon Rogue, Frenzy Warrior, Zoolock) is more or less unplayable and the only other sort of interesting deck (Rush Warrior) is so damn expensive to craft. So, left with another two months of Token Druid. /*Yawn*/

I'm playing Frenzy Warrior against the usual Random Crap Priest, he's at 12 hp, I have stats on board, a 5 attack weapon equipped and 4 minions in hand, among those Grommash Hellscream and a Cruel Taskmaster. He plays Mutanus the Devourer (I cannot imagine a Priest's hand where this would be the correct card to play at this moment) and does the perfect 25% snipe of hitting Grom.

The only really useful cards I can come up with are Ratchet Privateer (which I'm actually using in my Weapon Rogue), Fogsail Freebooter and Bloodsail Raider due to their Weapon Synergy, but the latter two suffer from the fact that their is no good 1 or 2 mana weapon for Rogues. And Weapon Rogue in general, especially a minion-heavy version, suffers from the fact that is has no access to a halfway decent AOE except Blademaster Samuro (why t f did they cut Blade Flurry from the core set?). So you'd have to go hyper aggressive, which will probably be easier done with stealth minions rather than pirates.

Lock and Load Hunter is a lot of fun in this format.

Lol. I tried to meme it up and played Malygos Pally. Pulled Malygos with Commencement. Worked right with the first try, my opponent managed to kill himself thanks to Malygos and Eye for an Eye.

Quote from EvilZero >>

 

Quote from HatShapedHat >>

Quote from EvilZero >>

Standard is just aggro again. 

 It always will be.  People really gotta start accepting it because as long as the game is popular on mobile the majority of people will flock to aggressive decks because they make for quicker matches.

I exclusively play aggro or mid-range decks when I'm on phone because if I'm on my phone, it means I have less time to play games

 Aggro is one of the factors why this game has become unfun for so many people. I'm not saying "LOL dead game", but when aggro is always, ALWAYS the top deck, it is not nearly as fun as it could be. Hearthstone has so many interesting cards and effects, but aggro runs over the majority of it. They introduced the most aggro of the aggro with demon hunter. 

 Literally up to a week ago, the best deck in the game was Secret Libram Paladin. A midrange deck. If DH is the "most aggro of aggro", then why is the currently best performing and most played DH list also a midrange deck? Or have aggro and midrange suddenly become the same?

Quote from Mithrandir_ >>

Fuck that random mage that discovers Mordresh in arena. Plus fuck you for bm'ing and roping while having lethal. Cunt.

 I feel your pain. Whenever I face Mage in arena I prepare myself for that random Fireball that will kill me out of nowhere. I hate that damn class in just about any game mode.

Quote from jazzfan27 >>

Imho they (blizzard) should strive to have an aggro, midrange/tempo, combo, and control deck all represented in the top 6 decks.

Seems like it has been a good minute since we have had a decent combo deck.

 Well, Token Druid is more or less a combo deck (not an OTK, rather an aggressive combo deck, but still) and has been in the top tiers for months now.